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WolfCrypt
01-13-2016, 04:36 PM
1/3rd to me says 3 pages of Talents. I did the math and the first page and all those talents exculding Pray would cost 19 points. That would mean that the player is either 19 or 20(I say this because you may or may not have 1 TP to spend before your first encounter.) So if one page equals 19 TP and they are giving us 3 pages we are going to have all 30 levels worth of talents to choose from.

A lot of people inculding my guild TUC have been speculating we'll only have 10 levels and like maybe 1 page a bit bigger then the one revealed. But assuming my math is correct we'll have 30 points across 14 talents per page. This roughly equals 42 so 42 talents to choose from for each class. And we may get all six classes we've been told to not take that picture of only 3 classes shown at face value.

Also 1/3rd could mean the first 3 pages are unlocked and visible at char creation and then we get more as we level up. If thats the case we'll have more then a 100 talents per class.

TLDR: There are over 42 talents per class on Campaign Launch so don't freak out by 1/3rd of tree unlocked.

Yoss
01-13-2016, 04:37 PM
I think you're overly optimistic.

Gwaer
01-13-2016, 04:38 PM
Or you only get one talent every 10 levels and the top level is 200.

plaguedealer
01-13-2016, 04:45 PM
1/3rd to me says 3 pages of Talents. I did the math and the first page and all those talents exculding Pray would cost 19 points. That would mean that the player is either 19 or 20(I say this because you may or may not have 1 TP to spend before your first encounter.) So if one page equals 19 TP and they are giving us 3 pages we are going to have all 30 levels worth of talents to choose from.

A lot of people inculding my guild TUC have been speculating we'll only have 10 levels and like maybe 1 page a bit bigger then the one revealed. But assuming my math is correct we'll have 30 points across 14 talents per page. This roughly equals 42 so 42 talents to choose from for each class. And we may get all six classes we've been told to not take that picture of only 3 classes shown at face value.

Also 1/3rd could mean the first 3 pages are unlocked and visible at char creation and then we get more as we level up. If thats the case we'll have more then a 100 talents per class.

TLDR: There are over 42 talents per class on Campaign Launch so don't freak out by 1/3rd of tree unlocked.

The warrior tree at gen con was completely spoiled right? If so, then there won't be 42 talents. Honestly, I am perfectly happy with 42 talents, but I don't think that is the case.

WolfCrypt
01-13-2016, 04:47 PM
I said or over 100. That tree we've been told is being edited they said not too many changes but they never specify.

Fateanomaly
01-13-2016, 06:38 PM
I think it will be the as the spoiled warrior 14x3 traits per class. Max at level 30 so we have 29 points to spend with the lvl 1 point auto spent for the main charge power.

WolfCrypt
01-13-2016, 06:50 PM
14 x 3 is 42

Gwaer
01-13-2016, 06:53 PM
14 x 3 is 42

and 42 is the answer... that means that 3.14 march fourteenth is pve's release date. You cracked it!

WolfCrypt
01-13-2016, 06:54 PM
The answer to Hex life the universe everything is... 42

RCDv57
01-13-2016, 08:12 PM
...And we may get all six classes we've been told to not take that picture of only 3 classes shown at face value....

Yo I missed that shoutout, and I did kinda groan a bit when I spotted that.
My dream to get a Max level hero of each class/race combo shall not be slowed down.

Depending on how long it takes to hit lv30 I might also be crazy enough to do that with every Class/Race/Gender combo.

Fateanomaly
01-13-2016, 08:20 PM
The problem with having 48 characters is having to think up 48 names for them.

Gwaer
01-13-2016, 08:21 PM
Gwaer1
Gwaer2
Gwaer3
...
Gwaer47
Gwaer48

Done.

RCDv57
01-13-2016, 08:48 PM
The problem with having 48 characters is having to think up 48 names for them.
48 names does sound scary. The actual number of names and heros I'll need is actually 84. (for both genders)
But in reality I only need 12 human names, 6 Vennen Names, 12 Orc names, ect, ect...
And its even easier when considering that each name is for a specific thing, like a Human Female Warrior, or a Dogman hoobie joobie.

Also when looking through how many decks I have, and each one has its own unique name.
Shouldn't be a problem for me. The real issue will be if I don't like a class playstyle, and need to play it 14 times

WolfCrypt
01-13-2016, 09:04 PM
We may get char creation limits. Like 8 slots.

RCDv57
01-13-2016, 09:29 PM
We may get char creation limits. Like 84 slots.

*Fixed*

For real thou- any less than 12 and I'm gonna be a little sad.
*At least one for each class for both ardent and Underworld*

Xenavire
01-13-2016, 09:35 PM
We were definitely told there would be some limits to how many you can create. All in all, I wouldn't expect to have an infinite number of alts.

WolfCrypt
01-13-2016, 10:11 PM
Long as I can have at least 3

Xenavire
01-13-2016, 10:17 PM
Long as I can have at least 3

The last time it was mentioned, it was 1, plus unknown unlocks. But things have been changing, so who knows? I'd say the minimum would be 6, to cover the 6 classes.

WolfCrypt
01-13-2016, 10:23 PM
One? I'm going to have to make a veeery educated choice as tomy champ.

Fateanomaly
01-13-2016, 10:27 PM
There should be at least 8 (1 for each race) since there are race specific dungeons right?

WolfCrypt
01-13-2016, 10:32 PM
There should be at least 8 (1 for each race) since there are race specific dungeons right?

I don't mind it's one that means we gotta be happy huh? XD

Oroniss
01-13-2016, 10:42 PM
As long as we can delete and re-roll, and we get at least 2 character slots I don't mind too much. That's one for a "main" and another that can try the other 47 different class/race combinations :D.

RCDv57
01-14-2016, 01:42 AM
I'll be fine as long as there is an achievement tree that can confirm that I have indeed made it to LV 30 with all possible Race/Class/Gender options

Khazrakh
01-14-2016, 02:23 AM
Well before everybody chimes in to confirm that he doesn't care:
I do care! I'd like to have every race/class combination at max level one day.
I'd be fine with a fixed number of slots as long as there is a way to unlock more with gold, quests or whatever.

Fateanomaly
01-14-2016, 02:52 AM
Well, more slots can certainly increase the longevity of the campaign.

Vorsa
01-14-2016, 03:31 AM
I'd be very disappointed if we don't get 8+ character slots, seeing as how we know from the Glendower spoiler that there are cards exclusive to race-specific quests (i.e. you can only get Glendower while playing as a dwarf).

Re: Number of talents
Yup; there are 42 talents on the tree.
However, unless things have changed since the warrior reveal:
> The middle talent of the 1st row is the charge power, which everyone gets & has no tree 'links'.
> The middle talent of the 3rd row is/was Class Gems, which everyone gets (when reaching that tier of the tree) & has no tree 'links'.
> The middle talent of the 6th row - "COMING SOON" has a similar appearance & no tree 'links', suggesting it is another that everyone gets (presumably at max level rather than when reach that tier, as otherwise you'd expect it to be on the 5th row).

So 39 talent options to choose between. :)

Evilgm
01-14-2016, 04:54 AM
Also 1/3rd could mean the first 3 pages are unlocked and visible at char creation and then we get more as we level up. If thats the case we'll have more then a 100 talents per class.
Where are you getting the word pages from? It seems likely to me that the locks above the unlocked talents are the next tier- they'll all be on a single page.


TLDR: There are over 42 talents per class on Campaign Launch so don't freak out by 1/3rd of tree unlocked.
Nothing in your post substantiates this statement. In fact the exact opposite has been said- "the first third of which will be unlocked at Campaign Launch". That's 13 talents.

13 talents for a single character is not a lot. However, 13 talents for 8 races and 6 classes requires a significant amount of time to max out, so as others have said it will really depend on how many characters we're allowed to have at once.

Yoss
01-14-2016, 05:09 PM
We may get char creation limits. Like 8 slots.

I sure hope not. That will mean people are forced to make multiple accounts, violating the ToS and specifically going against their "one player, one account" policy.


We were definitely told there would be some limits to how many you can create. All in all, I wouldn't expect to have an infinite number of alts.

Source? I do not recall this statement.

Xenavire
01-14-2016, 08:24 PM
I believe it was a stream, in which someone explained that the plan at the time was for people to start with a single champ, and as you explored you would unlock a finite number of extra character slots. (I got the impression it would be enough for each class and possibly each race, but definitely not each class/race combo.)

This was from a good while ago though, 6+ months at least if memory serves.

plaguedealer
01-14-2016, 08:44 PM
I will pay money for more character slots, just saying

RCDv57
01-14-2016, 08:53 PM
I will pay money for more character slots, just saying

Same here. Although I'd much rather buy other things.

wolzarg
01-14-2016, 09:09 PM
I will pay money for more character slots, just saying
I wouldn't and it would peeve me off something fierce.


Edit
Can't believe i haven't done this yet so let me thoroughly embarrass my self by saying that's what he said to the title, a man can only resist for so long.

szimek
01-14-2016, 09:10 PM
imo: Because it's PvE, additional character slots should be buyable through gold. 50k or 100k gold for a slot? Enough so you would have to play a little bit to be able to unlock it, but not out of range for people.

KingGabriel
01-15-2016, 03:32 AM
Yo I missed that shoutout, and I did kinda groan a bit when I spotted that.
My dream to get a Max level hero of each class/race combo shall not be slowed down.

Depending on how long it takes to hit lv30 I might also be crazy enough to do that with every Class/Race/Gender combo.

Yeah I'm crazy enough to do that, and there's campaign choices to do as well on cards so more to pick :P

Rendakor
01-15-2016, 09:48 AM
If it's going to be a gold cost, it should get increasingly more expensive. 1k for the first, 2k, 4k, 8k, etc. That way you crazy folks who want every race/class(/gender!?!) can do so if you're willing to pay for it.

Turtlewing
01-15-2016, 10:11 AM
I believe it was a stream, in which someone explained that the plan at the time was for people to start with a single champ, and as you explored you would unlock a finite number of extra character slots. (I got the impression it would be enough for each class and possibly each race, but definitely not each class/race combo.)

This was from a good while ago though, 6+ months at least if memory serves.

Well, that's a fine plan, but if they don't also let players buy additional slots to fill out their race/class/gender permutations the end result will juts be players making additional accounts.

WolfCrypt
01-15-2016, 10:22 AM
But you can't make multiple accounts

Kayas42
01-15-2016, 10:27 AM
and 42 is the answer... that means that 3.14 march fourteenth is pve's release date. You cracked it!

PVE is being released on Pi?

Seems Legit!

Turtlewing
01-15-2016, 11:32 AM
But you can't make multiple accounts

You are not supposed to.
That's not the same thing as can't, and I am not aware of a single instances of an MMO successfully enforcing such a rule on a large scale even though most of them have it in their ToS.

Really this is just a rehash of the lesson that should have been learned from VIP. You can't actually make a "one X per person" rule work in an online game. You have to design under the assumption that if you make it desirable to have more than one of something people will.

Silvanos
01-15-2016, 11:41 AM
I believe it was a stream, in which someone explained that the plan at the time was for people to start with a single champ, and as you explored you would unlock a finite number of extra character slots. (I got the impression it would be enough for each class and possibly each race, but definitely not each class/race combo.)

This was from a good while ago though, 6+ months at least if memory serves.

Can someone explain to me how finite char slots is beneficial? I don't see the upside to limited character slots in any way. I guess if there was some awesome thing that you could only get once per character, but just make that thing once per account instead.

If I run out of character slots and want to play a Vennen Mage, my wife will suddenly have a big interest in magical spiders, and I will "show her how to play the game" a lot.

Gwaer
01-15-2016, 11:46 AM
There has to be some limit. infinite characters = infinite data that needs storing. That limit should be pretty high, imo. Unlocking them with gold isn't a bad idea I suppose, as long as it's a reasonable amount of gold, and a reasonable starting number of character slots.

Tazelbain
01-15-2016, 12:17 PM
There has to be some limit. infinite characters = infinite data that needs storing. That limit should be pretty high, imo. Unlocking them with gold isn't a bad idea I suppose, as long as it's a reasonable amount of gold, and a reasonable starting number of character slots.They have already committed to infinite data storage with unlimited collections, unlimited deck lists and unique card tracking. That is far more data RPG characters.

Turtlewing
01-15-2016, 12:21 PM
There has to be some limit. infinite characters = infinite data that needs storing. That limit should be pretty high, imo. Unlocking them with gold isn't a bad idea I suppose, as long as it's a reasonable amount of gold, and a reasonable starting number of character slots.

I don't know about a limit per say.
I mean, it'd also take infinite players or time to get infinite characters.

What they need is a gaiting system, so that in order to use more data you have to be contributing something positive to the welfare of Hex that makes you 'worth it'. That could be platinum (financial support of the company) or being an active player (presumably makes the community stronger).

Starting with one slot and unlocking more though PvE play seems reasonable as it'll cut down on the data generated by players who quit before completing much content and never return, while (if done right) not really interfering with players who actually play.

But if you're paying for slots in currency there probably doesn't need to be a limit as there will be a soft limit imposed by the currency cost.

RCDv57
01-15-2016, 12:38 PM
I guess I could be a complete scumbag and break the TOS with multiple accounts if I have too :rolleyes:
But I'm a Raid Leader, and if I did that a large amount of my champions would not have access to that buff.

sukebe
01-15-2016, 02:17 PM
They have already committed to infinite data storage with unlimited collections, unlimited deck lists and unique card tracking. That is far more data RPG characters.

just because they already have to deal with a huge amount of data does not mean they should not limit the data usage per account where they can. I don't know of a single mmo that allows for unlimited characters. each character is a huge amount of variables that have to be tracked so it just seems foolish to me not to limit that.

I like having 2 character slots to start then buying more for increasingly large sums of gold until you get to the max (around 8 should be fair but even 6 would be workable)

plaguedealer
01-15-2016, 02:25 PM
just because they already have to deal with a huge amount of data does not mean they should not limit the data usage per account where they can. I don't know of a single mmo that allows for unlimited characters. each character is a huge amount of variables that have to be tracked so it just seems foolish to me not to limit that.

I like having 2 character slots to start then buying more for increasingly large sums of gold until you get to the max (around 8 should be fair but even 6 would be workable)

Given the specific race/class combos, I would be disappointed if the hard cap was 6 or 8. A way to buy more slots (either plat or gold) seems reasonable and might give hex some extra money.

Khazrakh
01-15-2016, 02:30 PM
No offense guys, but we are not living in 1995 anymore.
Database size is not an issue, even less so in a game that tracks every single card in existence as an unique key.
There is really no need to limit the amount of slots per player. I don't have a problem with increasing the cost for the next slot each time you buy one, but artificially limiting character slots will only lead to one thing - players violating the TOS by creating new accounts once their limit is reached.

plaguedealer
01-15-2016, 02:37 PM
Just going off the deep end, a "benefit" to having a hard cap could be that it would encourage players to trade with each other or put cards on the ah that dont match their 6 or 8 race/class combo specs.

It could theoretically give more value to the pve cards. I dont like the idea, but it is a thought.

It would also highly encourage people to only play one faction.

Yoss
01-15-2016, 03:06 PM
You are not supposed to [create multiple accounts]. That's not the same thing as can't, and I am not aware of a single instances of an MMO successfully enforcing such a rule on a large scale even though most of them have it in their ToS. Really this is just a rehash of the lesson that should have been learned from VIP. You can't actually make a "one X per person" rule work in an online game. You have to design under the assumption that if you make it desirable to have more than one of something people will.

This.


What they need is a gaiting system, so that in order to use more data you have to be contributing something positive to the welfare of Hex that makes you 'worth it'. That could be platinum (financial support of the company) or being an active player (presumably makes the community stronger). Starting with one slot and unlocking more though PvE play seems reasonable as it'll cut down on the data generated by players who quit before completing much content and never return, while (if done right) not really interfering with players who actually play. But if you're paying for slots in currency there probably doesn't need to be a limit as there will be a soft limit imposed by the currency cost.

And this. If done as a cost to unlock, should be fixed price per slot, not escalating, and it needs to be cheap enough to avoid pushing a player to a second account.


No offense guys, but we are not living in 1995 anymore. Database size is not an issue, even less so in a game that tracks every single card in existence as an unique key.

And, finally, this.

Tazelbain
01-15-2016, 03:12 PM
just because they already have to deal with a huge amount of data does not mean they should not limit the data usage per account where they can. I don't know of a single mmo that allows for unlimited characters. each character is a huge amount of variables that have to be tracked so it just seems foolish to me not to limit that.

I like having 2 character slots to start then buying more for increasingly large sums of gold until you get to the max (around 8 should be fair but even 6 would be workable)I think you underestimate how awesome databases are these days.

Certainly there aren't many do infinite characters or inventory because they all want to sell you more accounts and character slots and inventory space.

WolfCrypt
01-15-2016, 03:31 PM
I think 8 is good so what you'll have to make choices but at least you get one of every race

Yoss
01-15-2016, 03:34 PM
I think 8 is good so what you'll have to make multiple accounts but at least you get one of every race

Fixed that for you. And now can you explain why they should encourage players to make extra accounts?

Turtlewing
01-15-2016, 03:55 PM
I suggest adding a character slot token to starter packs. So you get 1 free with your account, and don't have to delete your first champ if you decided you aren't in love with your free starter and buy a different starter to take into PvE.

Then they can have additional slots unlocked at campaign milestones, like the dungeon equivalent of the first time you clear each tier of Arena, up to 7 (for a total of 8 if you didn't buy any). Or bought for gold at a fixed price per slot.

WolfCrypt
01-15-2016, 03:57 PM
Hey don't do THAT.

Tazelbain
01-15-2016, 03:58 PM
Definitely think that because they made the one account rule, they should do everything they can to make sure there is no need for a second account. Right now only players with extra legacy accounts can PvE between PvP matches and that's just ridiculous.

So allowing a descent number starting slots and marginally expensive way to add any number of slots seems like the reasonable path. I thought 25k gold of AA commons was a pretty good price point. Wasn't a huge deal to get one but it wasn't trivial either. Plus good gold sinks keep the economy strong.

sukebe
01-16-2016, 03:56 AM
Definitely think that because they made the one account rule, they should do everything they can to make sure there is no need for a second account. Right now only players with extra legacy accounts can PvE between PvP matches and that's just ridiculous.

So allowing a descent number starting slots and marginally expensive way to add any number of slots seems like the reasonable path. I thought 25k gold of AA commons was a pretty good price point. Wasn't a huge deal to get one but it wasn't trivial either. Plus good gold sinks keep the economy strong.

I would truly be shocked if it was unlimited. Hex has been known to shock me with things like this but I still find it extremely unlikely it would be more than 8.

Also, they have said they want to make it so you can pve in between tournament rounds but that it is just not a priority at the moment.

Gwaer
01-16-2016, 09:03 AM
I didn't realize wow was released before 1995, and just never updated the fact that they have a maximum number of characters per server and per account. Poe has character limits... honestly any online game I can think of has limits. Reality doesn't match with your soundbites. Unlimited characters is incredibly unlikely. Even if you can buy more slots, I would expect that you could only do it to a certain point. Enough slots for every class +1 and then delete if you need to make different characters after that is plenty to start. Expanding up to every race class combination +1 should cover everything people need.

Tazelbain
01-16-2016, 09:45 AM
I didn't realize wow was released before 1995, and just never updated the fact that they have a maximum number of characters per server and per account. Poe has character limits... honestly any online game I can think of has limits. Reality doesn't match with your soundbites. Unlimited characters is incredibly unlikely. Even if you can buy more slots, I would expect that you could only do it to a certain point. Enough slots for every class +1 and then delete if you need to make different characters after that is plenty to start. Expanding up to every race class combination +1 should cover everything people need.I can find their base limit is 24, but not their max purchasable. If you could point where you saw their limit that would be cool. But it does matter much because in PoE you have any number of accounts so it is effectively unlimited.

Gwaer
01-16-2016, 09:54 AM
Don't see how it's relevant. In this post 1995 world Every game is still limiting their database sizes in some form or fashion. Even if it's just to hamper automatic character generation ad infinitum with bots. unlimited characters isn't actually useful to a human being, and is only a negative for stability, there's an upper limit to what is actually useful. That's the number they should aim for.

Svenn
01-16-2016, 10:38 AM
I can find their base limit is 24, but not their max purchasable. If you could point where you saw their limit that would be cool. But it does matter much because in PoE you have any number of accounts so it is effectively unlimited.

It was just posted recently that someone had finally reached their cap... I can't find it. I want to say it was 255.

EDIT: Found it!


What's the highest number of character slots on a single account?

Around 255. We recently hit this limit on one of our internal customer support accounts!
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1562421

KingGabriel
01-16-2016, 11:05 AM
Well, they said friends list was unlimited and I'm up to 399...

Khazrakh
01-16-2016, 01:04 PM
Don't see how it's relevant. In this post 1995 world Every game is still limiting their database sizes in some form or fashion. Even if it's just to hamper automatic character generation ad infinitum with bots. unlimited characters isn't actually useful to a human being, and is only a negative for stability, there's an upper limit to what is actually useful. That's the number they should aim for.

It's not about whether other games limit the amount of characters you can have or what that limit is. My post was simply stating that there is no need what so ever to limit the slots to something like 6 or 8 characters because of database limitations. If Hex (or any other game) decides to have a character limit or not is their decision and different games have different reasons to do so but it's simply wrong to imply that they have to limit the slots because of database issues. You can have a hard cap at 128 or 256 slots or something if you are really worried, but in a world where every single card in the game has its own unique key, the amount of characters the players create are simply not an issue.

If they limit the slots below what people want to create said people will violate the TOS and create additional accounts. That really can't be in HXEs interest

Tazelbain
01-16-2016, 01:05 PM
Fine do that if the limit is more then 99.9999% of players would ever every use, it's moot. But there is no technical for it to be there.

Stormlight
01-16-2016, 01:05 PM
Don't see how it's relevant. In this post 1995 world Every game is still limiting their database sizes in some form or fashion. Even if it's just to hamper automatic character generation ad infinitum with bots. unlimited characters isn't actually useful to a human being, and is only a negative for stability, there's an upper limit to what is actually useful. That's the number they should aim for.

With each race/class combo having unique combinations of abilities (and two completely unique traits), the number should be at least the number of races x the number of classes.

WolfCrypt
01-16-2016, 01:33 PM
Just have 8 suffer...

wolzarg
01-16-2016, 09:02 PM
Easy limitation fix you have 1 slot the first time you hit level 10 you unlock 2 more slots and after that every 10 levels you unlock another slot. If you actually use the slots you now get more slots but if you just try to make character after character to infinity that is impossible.

WolfCrypt
01-16-2016, 09:03 PM
I want only six chars or less at least 3 slots

RCDv57
01-17-2016, 03:51 AM
I'd be happy with the 64 or 256 Champ limit.