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View Full Version : Come say hi to my cousin – PvE Spoiler



NOBLERoostasaur
01-15-2016, 08:08 AM
Hi everyone this is my cousin the Ankylosaurus please make him feel welcome. He may only be a herbivore but he’s hard hitting with a gutsy knack for street fighting. Enjoy.

4140

hammer
01-15-2016, 08:14 AM
Hi everyone this is my cousin the Ankylosaurus please make him feel welcome. He may only be a herbivore but he’s hard hitting with a gutsy knack for street fighting. Enjoy.

4140

Whilst not as succulent I approve :)

Sethanon
01-15-2016, 08:15 AM
Seems like a lethal beast, of course if you use the proper gloves when you feed him!

Valnir
01-15-2016, 08:21 AM
2 in 1 - Bomb and removal. Realy nice one! Love the art/details.. cardas seem to have better and better artworks.
Keep up the good work!

Flairina
01-15-2016, 08:24 AM
I didn't think that was all that good until I realized the +1/+1 is permanent. Seems excellent for crush decks! Wish there was a bit of a play on the name though, kind of boring to just be "Ankylosaurus" and nothing else. :|

plaguedealer
01-15-2016, 08:25 AM
I love the art and the card is very nice. Dinosaur deck will be one of the first pve decks I make.

Vorsa
01-15-2016, 08:27 AM
A very respectable card; might take a bit of work to get going (since a 3/4 attacking on turn 5 is a fairly soft target), but good pay-off and a good ability. :cool:

Mokog
01-15-2016, 08:37 AM
Roostasaur, your extended family reunions must be something interesting.

bootlace
01-15-2016, 08:39 AM
Some thoughts on the card:

-Really like this card a lot, really has the feel of what a Wild troop ought to be.
-I also feel like the art just keeps on getting better and better.
-Would have been great in PvP. Mid-range mono wild decks ought to be a thing and this would have fit in great.
-Related to the above, everytime I see a great PvE card that seems like it would be balanced for PvP..I kinda feel like its wasted potential. I would hope that one day when we have a Extended/Modern/Eternal format, they add all bunch of PvE cards that would fit in there (probably +90% of PvE cards released thus far).
-One point in contradiction to the above, in PvP I imagine they would have made the ability at Basic speed which wouldn't have been nearly as fun (I think instant speed wouldn't have been broken but perhaps with Crocosaur also in the block it would be too much for the current meta).

IrishBattousai
01-15-2016, 08:43 AM
that would be good for my dino deck
http://hex.tcgbrowser.com/#!/deck=41716 or http://hex.tcgbrowser.com/#!/deck=46566

Timlagor
01-15-2016, 08:49 AM
that would be good for my dino deck
http://hex.tcgbrowser.com/#!/deck=41716 or http://hex.tcgbrowser.com/#!/deck=46566

You don't seem to have shared that deck

wolzarg
01-15-2016, 08:55 AM
Seems a bit weak for its cost but equipment might change a lot and still good enough for the dino deck.

Mokog
01-15-2016, 09:04 AM
I could see this card as a future PvP candidate. We still have a lot of space and a PvE card today may see a functional reprint in a PvP set in the future, hopefully with some new details so the cards have a few differences.

Dinotropia
01-15-2016, 09:13 AM
:D

Dinos 4life!

Tazelbain
01-15-2016, 09:25 AM
This is a solid card. Feel pretty comfortable it can replace wreckasaurs (which tend to be win more) in my dino deck to give it more removal. Also it has good chance of attacking on turn 4 and also the quick speed battle will be ripe for shenanigans.

WolfCrypt
01-15-2016, 09:28 AM
His effect is nice if you use dinos.

Turtlewing
01-15-2016, 09:38 AM
A very respectable card; might take a bit of work to get going (since a 3/4 attacking on turn 5 is a fairly soft target), but good pay-off and a good ability. :cool:

In practice I'd expect it to frequently hit the board a turn or two early and be backed by a combat trick in a wild deck.

Saeijou
01-15-2016, 09:42 AM
i love all the new spoilers :) thanks for sharing!

LwoodY2K
01-15-2016, 09:44 AM
Wish there was a bit of a play on the name though, kind of boring to just be "Ankylosaurus" and nothing else. :|

Wristosaurus? Kneecapperasaurus? Anklebitadon?

knightofeffect
01-15-2016, 09:45 AM
This card seems really, really good.

First off, the one shot is not basic, which means you can battle after declaring your attack phase which is really strong. Similarly, the quick action nature of his one shot allows you to play pump on him almost strictly as removal.

Even if a 3/4 attacking turn 5 is a little weak, having the potential to wild growth + battle to kill off any blocker 6/6 or smaller is pretty strong, especially considering how hard it will be to deal with aside from direct removal once it gets rolling.

This is the exact power level I'd love to see from PvE rares!

Rendakor
01-15-2016, 09:46 AM
Seems decent; might see some use in my dino deck.

IrishBattousai
01-15-2016, 09:47 AM
that would be good for my dino deck
http://hex.tcgbrowser.com/#!/deck=41716 or http://hex.tcgbrowser.com/#!/deck=46566


You don't seem to have shared that deck



sorry about that i thought i had the decks on public but guess i was wrong now fixed there it should be fixed now

Edswor
01-15-2016, 10:09 AM
Great card, and again great art also.

Zophie
01-15-2016, 10:40 AM
Doesn't look quite as delicious as Roostasaur, but I bet we can at least make a good chili or stew out of him or something.

Mormont
01-15-2016, 10:49 AM
Looks good. Combos well with Carnasaurus and its equipment.

kaiizza
01-15-2016, 11:23 AM
Some thoughts on the card:

-Really like this card a lot, really has the feel of what a Wild troop ought to be.
-I also feel like the art just keeps on getting better and better.
-Would have been great in PvP. Mid-range mono wild decks ought to be a thing and this would have fit in great.
-Related to the above, everytime I see a great PvE card that seems like it would be balanced for PvP..I kinda feel like its wasted potential. I would hope that one day when we have a Extended/Modern/Eternal format, they add all bunch of PvE cards that would fit in there (probably +90% of PvE cards released thus far).
-One point in contradiction to the above, in PvP I imagine they would have made the ability at Basic speed which wouldn't have been nearly as fun (I think instant speed wouldn't have been broken but perhaps with Crocosaur also in the block it would be too much for the current meta).

I see no reason that a set of PVP cards that release after the PVE stuff can not include PVP cards that were featured in PVE. It might be a nice pseudo beta test location. There is nothing stopping hex from printing this card in PVP.

Fred
01-15-2016, 11:30 AM
I see no reason that a set of PVP cards that release after the PVE stuff can not include PVP cards that were featured in PVE. It might be a nice pseudo beta test location. There is nothing stopping hex from printing this card in PVP.

Except if it's a drop from a PvE dungeon. They they'd have to change the loot tables, because I don't think they intend to have PvP cards drop from PvE, especially not rare ones. They could have two cards that are the same, with one being PvE only, but that would be confusing.

bootlace
01-15-2016, 11:35 AM
I see no reason that a set of PVP cards that release after the PVE stuff can not include PVP cards that were featured in PVE. It might be a nice pseudo beta test location. There is nothing stopping hex from printing this card in PVP.

I think the problem with your and also my idea is that if PvE cards can be played in PvP formats then it messes with their business model. Imagine being able to build a pretty competitive totally free PvP deck consisting of cards acquired in PvE. I think unfortunately whatever cards we see in PvE won't be playable in any serious PvP format as a result (Wild West is probably only place we'll see them). An argument could be made that anything you earn in PvE could potentially be traded for a PvP deck as well eventually, but they probably want to keep a clear line separating PvP and PvE (paid and free).

kaiizza
01-15-2016, 11:36 AM
Except if it's a drop from a PvE dungeon. They they'd have to change the loot tables, because I don't think they intend to have PvP cards drop from PvE, especially not rare ones. They could have two cards that are the same, with one being PvE only, but that would be confusing.


I think the problem with your and also my idea is that if PvE cards can be played in PvP formats then it messes with their business model. Imagine being able to build a pretty competitive totally free PvP deck consisting of cards acquired in PvE. I think unfortunately whatever cards we see in PvE won't be playable in any serious PvP format as a result (Wild West is probably only place we'll see them). An argument could be made that anything you earn in PvE could potentially be traded for a PvP deck as well eventually, but they probably want to keep a clear line separating PvP and PvE (paid and free).

It would be two different cards, thought that was clear in my post, sorry. They would of course be different "cards" in the sense that the PvP would be prob a different art, only obtained through PvP stuff and the PvE one is not usable in constructed. If that's to confusing(It really should not be due to card design) then you slap a new name on the card and call it done.

Turtlewing
01-15-2016, 11:50 AM
It would be two different cards, thought that was clear in my post, sorry. They would of course be different "cards" in the sense that the PvP would be prob a different art, only obtained through PvP stuff and the PvE one is not usable in constructed. If that's to confusing(It really should not be due to card design) then you slap a new name on the card and call it done.

It is confusing because card name is supposed to be the way you distinguish different versions of a card (like alternate art) from different cards.

Changing the name makes them difefrent cards that do the same thing. This would (absent banning the PvP version in PvE) also mean you could very nearly run 8 copies of the card in PvE (4 each of the PvP and PvE versions).

In practice I think reprinting PvE cards in PvP sets would be a hard thing to do right.

Malcolm
01-15-2016, 12:32 PM
This is the exact power level I'd love to see from PvE rares!

Exact opposite for me. This is a card that, as others have alluded too, could fit into PVP with 0 change (except the fancy card border). Most of the spoiled PvE cards have been this with 2 exceptions (Coyotle Lifedrain bruiser and "BenStoll Bravely Ran Away" spiders) which is disappointing -as it stands- (no equip, no dungeon theme, no "must play only dinos", no Start with this deck, build what you can) for anyone currently playing without a good pvp set. Anyone who has a deck that can complete Arena with at least a 17/3 record doesn't need this card.

Meaning: we were told PvE cards would be of a power level that, if played in PvP, the opponent would Rage quit or Fear-afk. Fire and Brimstone, dogs and cats living together, real Sodom and Gamora stuff. If my opp played this, or 95% of the PVE cards spoiled, I would simply say "Nice. thats gonna be a pain, but I can work around it".

Since we will be going up against the AI, which can/does/must cheat, and which HEX Ent has mentioned multiple times will be deck-tweaked, I am expecting a larger power level creep.

PVP Uncom = PvE trash card common
PVP Rare = PvE Uncom or great common
PvP Leg = PvE Rare
PvP ุ = PvE Leg

In other words any PvE legendary, even a trash one, should make you laugh; and make you laugh even louder when you find/earn/get/buy/play one.
And playing one with it's gear should make the AI swear. In ASCII so it again makes you laugh.

Zophie
01-15-2016, 12:57 PM
I don't think they would ever be flagging PVE cards as PVP playable, that would be way too cumbersome to present and keep track of for typical users and not the ideal solution. At most you might see a very similar card reprinted and sold in a PVP set for use in PVP formats. Otherwise keep in mind there are going to be PVEPVP hybrid formats (Wild West) where all cards and equip and PVE champions are usable, and they will be silly and totally unbalanced and probably super fun ;)

LNQ
01-15-2016, 01:09 PM
The idea that *all* PvE cards should be more powerful than PvP equivalents is silly to me. To make a good PvE experience the cards need some balance too, and players who dont have PvP cards to build a deck need their staple commons too. The difference is that PvE cards can occupy a larger spectrum, going into territory off limits in PvP. And thats what some of them will do.

Tazelbain
01-15-2016, 02:00 PM
Meaning: we were told PvE cards would be of a power level that, if played in PvP, the opponent would Rage quit or Fear-afk.I remember Cory talking about that, I don't think he was implying every PvE card was like that. He was talking about the PvE design space as a whole. And the Slaughtergear deck would definitely be "Sodom and Gamora" level if it was let loose on competitive PvP. The problem as I see it that there is only one. Hopefully a few more will come with the next set of dungeons.

Neokarasu
01-15-2016, 02:24 PM
(I think instant speed wouldn't have been broken but perhaps with Crocosaur also in the block it would be too much for the current meta).

I think instant speed (plus the fact that it's no additional cost for the activation) is the reason this card would be too powerful in PvP. It essentially gives you an on-board Burn in addition to the growing body. Having Burn is already pretty good since there are a lot of relevant targets (Azurefate, Periwinkle, Hypno, Quash, etc.). In addition to that, this guy happens to also grow on attack. So the ability being instant speed, you can use it before blockers are declared and potentially force unfavorable trades.

Worst-case for the guy is a 4 mana Burn and best-case is completely stomping decks like AzureCannon from existing.

Aradon
01-15-2016, 02:40 PM
I think that, at least initially, the idea was that PvE cards could be wilder than PvP cards in two ways: one, random effects, which are usually less competitive and reliable, but also very swingy in the very lucky cases. They're frustrating to play with and against because they're either under-powered or overpowered depending on the lucky outcome a lot of the time, but great for longevity of PvE campaigns, where random can generate interest in a game that would otherwise be run-of-the-mill.

The other is cards that are directly un-fun to play against players. It's not that they're too strong, it's that the effect is demoralizing or punishing in a way that they want to avoid. For example, Information Control was spoiled a long time ago, that let you filter the top five cards of your opponent's deck. Believe me, you don't want to have that done to you in PvP, because it means your next few turns are going to suck. However, it's a possibility in PvE where you won't demoralize your opponent.

They're not about power level, they're about invasiveness against your opponent.
Of course, that notion is probably out of date, now that we've seen some very powerful PvE spoilers, as well as the very-invasive Vennen eggs mechanic in PvP. As far as I can tell, the power level boost in PvE seems to be a direct factor of rarity, where when you get a strong card, you literally get a stronger card because it was harder to get, and now you get to abuse it.

Yoss
01-15-2016, 02:53 PM
stuff about how PvE should be overpowered compared to PvP

I completely disagree.


I think that, at least initially, the idea was that PvE cards could be wilder than PvP cards in two ways: one, random effects, which are usually less competitive and reliable, but also very swingy in the very lucky cases. They're frustrating to play with and against because they're either under-powered or overpowered depending on the lucky outcome a lot of the time, but great for longevity of PvE campaigns, where random can generate interest in a game that would otherwise be run-of-the-mill.

The other is cards that are directly un-fun to play against players. It's not that they're too strong, it's that the effect is demoralizing or punishing in a way that they want to avoid. For example, Information Control was spoiled a long time ago, that let you filter the top five cards of your opponent's deck. Believe me, you don't want to have that done to you in PvP, because it means your next few turns are going to suck. However, it's a possibility in PvE where you won't demoralize your opponent.

They're not about power level, they're about invasiveness against your opponent.
Of course, that notion is probably out of date, now that we've seen some very powerful PvE spoilers, as well as the very-invasive Vennen eggs mechanic in PvP. As far as I can tell, the power level boost in PvE seems to be a direct factor of rarity, where when you get a strong card, you literally get a stronger card because it was harder to get, and now you get to abuse it.

This is what I agree with. PvE at same power level as PvP but with weird/fun/awkward/annoying/goofy mechanics that PvP wouldn't tolerate.

Slaughtergear's Re* need a nerf, badly.

knightofeffect
01-15-2016, 03:13 PM
Exact opposite for me. This is a card that, as others have alluded too, could fit into PVP with 0 change (except the fancy card border). Most of the spoiled PvE cards have been this with 2 exceptions (Coyotle Lifedrain bruiser and "BenStoll Bravely Ran Away" spiders) which is disappointing -as it stands- (no equip, no dungeon theme, no "must play only dinos", no Start with this deck, build what you can) for anyone currently playing without a good pvp set. Anyone who has a deck that can complete Arena with at least a 17/3 record doesn't need this card.

Meaning: we were told PvE cards would be of a power level that, if played in PvP, the opponent would Rage quit or Fear-afk. Fire and Brimstone, dogs and cats living together, real Sodom and Gamora stuff. If my opp played this, or 95% of the PVE cards spoiled, I would simply say "Nice. thats gonna be a pain, but I can work around it".

Since we will be going up against the AI, which can/does/must cheat, and which HEX Ent has mentioned multiple times will be deck-tweaked, I am expecting a larger power level creep.

PVP Uncom = PvE trash card common
PVP Rare = PvE Uncom or great common
PvP Leg = PvE Rare
PvP ุ = PvE Leg

In other words any PvE legendary, even a trash one, should make you laugh; and make you laugh even louder when you find/earn/get/buy/play one.
And playing one with it's gear should make the AI swear. In ASCII so it again makes you laugh.

Yea, I really disagree with most of this. PvE should complement PvP cards and Vice-versa. This game isn't just PvP and just PvE cards compartmentalized into two separate power-levels. That would be really reductionist to the design space and really just bad design overall, not to mention the fact that it would de-incentive PvE entrants to the game from picking up PvP eventually.

I think the power cap in PvE will be significantly higher than PvE as evidenced by the Slaughter deck and that is even with a very small sample of PvE cards. I also think the PvE equipment will be more enjoyable and thematic if not outright stronger as well.

Seems like this is the best way to do it, and it seems like that's how they are doing it.

Sinistarlol
01-15-2016, 03:15 PM
Some of these spoilers are definitely living up to 'overpowered' status due to player vs environment. This dinosaur is definitely no exception, that coyotle cleric that is outrageously a higher rarity than "rare" and now this creature.

Turtlewing
01-15-2016, 03:39 PM
Exact opposite for me. This is a card that, as others have alluded too, could fit into PVP with 0 change (except the fancy card border). Most of the spoiled PvE cards have been this with 2 exceptions (Coyotle Lifedrain bruiser and "BenStoll Bravely Ran Away" spiders) which is disappointing -as it stands- (no equip, no dungeon theme, no "must play only dinos", no Start with this deck, build what you can) for anyone currently playing without a good pvp set. Anyone who has a deck that can complete Arena with at least a 17/3 record doesn't need this card.

Meaning: we were told PvE cards would be of a power level that, if played in PvP, the opponent would Rage quit or Fear-afk. Fire and Brimstone, dogs and cats living together, real Sodom and Gamora stuff. If my opp played this, or 95% of the PVE cards spoiled, I would simply say "Nice. thats gonna be a pain, but I can work around it".

Since we will be going up against the AI, which can/does/must cheat, and which HEX Ent has mentioned multiple times will be deck-tweaked, I am expecting a larger power level creep.

PVP Uncom = PvE trash card common
PVP Rare = PvE Uncom or great common
PvP Leg = PvE Rare
PvP ุ = PvE Leg

In other words any PvE legendary, even a trash one, should make you laugh; and make you laugh even louder when you find/earn/get/buy/play one.
And playing one with it's gear should make the AI swear. In ASCII so it again makes you laugh.

That all sounds pretty poorly thought out.

PvP cards need to be relevant in PvE because they're how CZE get's payed.

I'd sugest that the overall balance should be similar between PvP and PvE cards on a whole set level, but that how power is distributed by rarity should be different.

In the PvP set a lot of staple cards are printed at common or uncommon to support limited, and a lot of rare/legendary cards are close to unplayable in part to get overly gimmicky cards out of the way of limited.

In PvE, all the trash should be at the bottom and all the bombs at the top (with a reasonable margine of error for the complexity inherent in ratting the "best" cards in a TCG).

So, on average a PvE rare/legendary is probably better than a PvP rare/legendary, but a PvE common/uncommon is probably worse than a PvP common or uncommon. And the best decks will probably draw from both PvP and PvE sets.

bootlace
01-15-2016, 04:24 PM
I completely disagree.



This is what I agree with. PvE at same power level as PvP but with weird/fun/awkward/annoying/goofy mechanics that PvP wouldn't tolerate.

Slaughtergear's Re* need a nerf, badly.

Yea basically stuff like:

-Ethereal Healer (gain something before game even starts if its in your deck)
-Way more cards like Jank Bot but more niche requirements
-Stuff related to classes and traits of your character (we've seen plenty of this)
-Could be crazy effects related to your collection or cards not directly in your deck (some crazy Wish card that lets you fetch a card from your collection or something like the Discover (http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Discover)mechanic in HS).
-Maybe stuff related to equipment or mercenaries (imagine fringe cards that only work really well with a specific Mercenary)
-Meta stuff like xp, gold, loot chance increase?
-Card that deals with permanence over matches (a concept which doesn't exist in PvP)
-Use once cards like Spectral Acorn
-More powerful random cards - ones you might actually consider maindecking in a top tier deck (think Piloted Shredder (http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/149/66/12191.png) if you've ever played HS) which would be good for PvE as random stuff happening when you play countless games against PvE is probably a good thing, while in PvP most of us here don't really prefer.
-Cards that level up throughout a dungeon based on certain criteria? ("Savager Raider": upgrades to a 3/1 if he does x damage in a dungeon?)


Some of these ideas are bad but there's so much stuff out there that they could just print things that don't overlap with PvP at all if they really wanted. But I think they legitimately want F2P players to be able to build cool/nice decks without ever spending a dime (and you kinda need some normal/non-wacky cards for that) so that's why I guess it's a necessity to see some PvP design space being used up in PvE.

PvP cards definitely should still be relevant in PvE as that's part of the monetization of PvE even if PvE players never wish to play against another person.

Yoss
01-15-2016, 04:50 PM
I love the brainstormed ideas and most of the post. I take issue with this:

I think they legitimately want F2P players to be able to build cool/nice decks without ever spending a dime (and you kinda need some normal/non-wacky cards for that) so that's why I guess it's a necessity to see some PvP design space being used up in PvE.

F2P players can get most PvP commons for less than 100g each on the AH. That is incredibly accessible and completely removes the need for PvE cards to be boring staples like Murder, Repel, Time Ripple, and so on.

poizonous
01-15-2016, 04:58 PM
If PvE cards become similar to PvP staples it significantly reduces the whole purpose of PvE cards. Simply making PvE staples does 2 things. Firstly it reduces the need for interaction between paying players who want to make gold and free to play players which is part of the main aspect of the game for getting free players into PvP