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hammer
01-19-2016, 06:00 AM
I would also like to assume that we will finally get the Spectral Oaks but can we also expect to get (all / none / some) of the Kickstarter Exclusive PvE cards with the campaign patch?

(Princess Cory, Chest ‘O Hex, Lady Cassandra, Void Marauder, Spectral Assassin, Orson’s Dream, The Crowd Roars!, Prospero, Sylvan Enchanter, Moment of Glory, Ninja Training, Hand of Uruunaz, Wrath of Zakiir).

incitfulmonk21
01-19-2016, 06:03 AM
I really really hope so but I really doubt it. Still I would think Cory would want to keep that an awesome surprise so I wouldn't expect them to comment until the patch notes.

Sinistarlol
01-19-2016, 06:08 AM
Was typing about this in-game last week. Got everybody riled up 'cause everybody said these cards were produced for an early development build and you shouldn't expect to see any of these particular cards anymore.

(Excluding Princess Cory) perhaps. Not confirmed.

Xenavire
01-19-2016, 06:12 AM
Why would these cards no longer exist? They were always explicitly listed as rewards. I wouldn't be shocked to discover some changes (Oaks and Acorns and Squirrells, oh my!) but I can't even fathom us not getting the cards in some way, shape or form.

The timing is up in the air though.

Lafoote
01-19-2016, 06:27 AM
We will get the cards for sure at some point. They may not be exactly as advertised in the campaign, but I see no reason they wouldn't be issued at all.

WolfCrypt
01-19-2016, 07:20 AM
Haha Alchemy no need to worry XD

plaguedealer
01-19-2016, 07:31 AM
I am going to be interested to see what these cards go for in the ah. Some of those exclusives seem like powerhouses and people will want four of them. May not be the strongest of the bunch, but I have a soft spot for orson's dream.

pjvedder
01-19-2016, 07:45 AM
I am going to be interested to see what these cards go for in the ah. Some of those exclusives seem like powerhouses and people will want four of them. May not be the strongest of the bunch, but I have a soft spot for orson's dream.

Oh man, that's a good point. I completely forgot the tiers only get 2 of each. Bummer.

Sethanon
01-19-2016, 07:59 AM
Don't forget about the starter deck, there might be some PvE spoils there as well - "All Champion and above get "Dragon's Blood" Kickstarter exclusive Starter Deck with foil, extended art Uruunaz"

Khazrakh
01-19-2016, 08:09 AM
The Kickstarter Exclusive PvE Cards probably are on of the bigger mistakes they made during the campaign.
Functional items shouldn't be behind a big paywall for newer players. It would have been a lot better to just have them as AAs with ways in the game to get the normal version later on.
Anyway I'm 100% convinced we'll see those cards sooner or later, how much they've changed since is another question though ;)

CoS
01-19-2016, 08:11 AM
The Foil card implementation discussion ... Will it come with double backs?

Rendakor
01-19-2016, 08:14 AM
The Kickstarter Exclusive PvE Cards probably are on of the bigger mistakes they made during the campaign.
Functional items shouldn't be behind a big paywall for newer players. It would have been a lot better to just have them as AAs with ways in the game to get the normal version later on.
Anyway I'm 100% convinced we'll see those cards sooner or later, how much they've changed since is another question though ;)For PVP, everything needs to be accessible to everyone because a level playing field is important. That's not the case in PVE, so removing the exclusivity of the KS PVE cards isn't something I expect the devs to do.

Tazelbain
01-19-2016, 09:07 AM
The Foil card implementation discussion ... Will it come with double backs?When EA were implemented, they said foil was still tied to doublebacks. That's the last info we have.

I am of the really of the unpopular that they should drop unlocking stuff with double backs. I don't see the fun in this just the grind. Tracking stats, revealing artists and tournament wins all cool for doublebacks. Tie foil to crafting. Or tie it to stardust. Tie it pack opening. Or whatever. Grinding crappy decks in the easiest content over and over again isn't fun.

Khazrakh
01-19-2016, 09:24 AM
For PVP, everything needs to be accessible to everyone because a level playing field is important. That's not the case in PVE, so removing the exclusivity of the KS PVE cards isn't something I expect the devs to do.

Neither do I, they promised that they will be kickstarter exclusive so they will be.
I only pointed out that in my opinion doing so was a mistake in the first place.

Kroan
01-19-2016, 10:47 AM
Neither do I, they promised that they will be kickstarter exclusive so they will be.
I only pointed out that in my opinion doing so was a mistake in the first place.

GenCon stuff was/is exclusive as well. Apparently they are fine with having exclusive PvE stuff. Who knows? Maybe Arena will go away with the next patch, resulting in the stuff that dropped there becoming exclusive stuff as well.

Evilgm
01-19-2016, 10:59 AM
GenCon stuff was/is exclusive as well.
Exclusive in what sense? Because I was able to get all the cards and equipment by playing the game, which doesn't seem exclusive to me at all.

Saeijou
01-19-2016, 11:02 AM
Exclusive in what sense? Because I was able to get all the cards and equipment by playing the game, which doesn't seem exclusive to me at all.

exclusive because it's not available anymore ...

you could have bought as many kickstarter tiers as well back in the days :D

Svenn
01-19-2016, 11:13 AM
Exclusive in what sense? Because I was able to get all the cards and equipment by playing the game, which doesn't seem exclusive to me at all.

Exclusive as in you can get them during GenCon (in game or at GenCon), but after that they are gone forever.

fido_one
01-19-2016, 11:36 AM
I'd still love the article on the what's and why's on the Spectral changes. An established member of the community said an article was coming, but CZE's official stance on it is still in the arena of 'we will not talk about it.' I'm assuming we'll get the article around the time the oaks are released.

katkillad
01-19-2016, 11:41 AM
If we don't have those KS PVE cards at PVE launch, then what ever was the point? My blood pressure is rising just thinking of the thought.

nicosharp
01-19-2016, 11:52 AM
Speaking of exclusive - Once set 3 goes out of print, and there are no more set 3 chests - those slaughtergear's guys become exclusive too. If they weren't already considered so based on the absurd amount of luck and rolls you need to grab a set. Exclusivity happens on many levels in HEX.

Rendakor
01-19-2016, 02:07 PM
I'd still love the article on the what's and why's on the Spectral changes. An established member of the community said an article was coming, but CZE's official stance on it is still in the arena of 'we will not talk about it.' I'm assuming we'll get the article around the time the oaks are released.
The spectral lotus garden stuff was changed because of the lawsuit. They were an homage to Magic's Black Lotus.

katkillad
01-19-2016, 02:22 PM
The spectral lotus garden stuff was changed because of the lawsuit. They were an homage to Magic's Black Lotus.

The name change was forced from the lawsuit, but there's no reason the card mechanics could not have stayed the same.

Khazrakh
01-19-2016, 02:23 PM
The spectral lotus garden stuff was changed because of the lawsuit. They were an homage to Magic's Black Lotus.

There was no need to change their functionality (*cough* nerfing them *cough*) though.
I got over my frustration about the process simply because I love Hex way too much to carry a grudge for long but I'd still love to read that article Colin "announced".

plaguedealer
01-19-2016, 02:40 PM
If the squirrel is in play after the hatch, it doesnt seem like a big nerf at all. Heck it might benefit some decks.

fido_one
01-19-2016, 02:45 PM
If the squirrel is in play after the hatch, it doesnt seem like a big nerf at all. Heck it might benefit some decks.

Oh god, I didn't want to resurrect that debate, there is a 50 page thread on it. To sum, rumor has it that CZE is willing to say WHY they changed the mechanics in an article, that's what I am looking towards, please let's not make this another 'did they or did they not nerf the original card' as we'll never stop circling on that one.

plaguedealer
01-19-2016, 03:05 PM
Oh god, I didn't want to resurrect that debate, there is a 50 page thread on it. To sum, rumor has it that CZE is willing to say WHY they changed the mechanics in an article, that's what I am looking towards, please let's not make this another 'did they or did they not nerf the original card' as we'll never stop circling on that one.

Do you know if the squirrel or tiger comes into play when hatched? I honestly dont know the answer.

Koz
01-19-2016, 03:18 PM
Do you know if the squirrel or tiger comes into play when hatched? I honestly dont know the answer.

It does not, it goes to hand

Aradon
01-19-2016, 03:29 PM
It does not, it goes to hand

This was confirmed. It goes to hand, just like original functionality. You just get a different troop.

Tazelbain
01-19-2016, 03:33 PM
No, it's not as good, but think of all nut related puns we got in exchange.

Zophie
01-19-2016, 03:54 PM
I will miss the original spectral lotus art, but that won't stop me from busting my nuts all over PVE

hex_colin
01-19-2016, 03:55 PM
The name change was forced from the lawsuit, but there's no reason the card mechanics could not have stayed the same.

"no reason"? It was brutally OP. The most powerful card in the game by a long shot.

fido_one
01-19-2016, 03:58 PM
"no reason"? It was brutally OP. The most powerful card in the game by a long shot.

Guys, we're just rehashing the earlier thread down to specific posts, I'm sorry I brought up the oak, I think the OP was wondering more about KS cards in general.

And it was just answered in the interview: Cory doesn't know what will be included when the campaign launches, they've been working on the KS cards and some of them may be in the campaign update, if not, those cards will immediately follow. How many of them or what their mechanics have changed to was not discussed. Thread is kind of moot after that interview, at least until more info comes about the campaign, which is tomorrow (again, we know we're getting news on PvE tomorrow as it was mentioned repeatedly in the PC Gamer interview).

Yoss
01-19-2016, 09:54 PM
I'd still love the article on the what's and why's on the Spectral changes. An established member of the community said an article was coming, but CZE's official stance on it is still in the arena of 'we will not talk about it.' I'm assuming we'll get the article around the time the oaks are released.

I've been tempted to start and maintain a list of "open issues" since it seems to take so long to resolve many of them.

funktion
01-19-2016, 09:59 PM
This might help answer some of the concerns of this thread...

"I'll be granting some rewards at PVE launch. Can't say what. It's the usual routine for a new big patch."
~Datadragon

Selanius
01-19-2016, 10:24 PM
Human Mage is sexy... +1 Starting Hand size AAAANNNNNDDD bonus XP and Gold? Yes please!

WolfCrypt
01-19-2016, 10:28 PM
This might help answer some of the concerns of this thread...

"I'll be granting some rewards at PVE launch. Can't say what. It's the usual routine for a new big patch."
~Datadragon

I hope that's for everybody XD

AstaSyneri
01-20-2016, 12:43 AM
This might help answer some of the concerns of this thread...

"I'll be granting some rewards at PVE launch. Can't say what. It's the usual routine for a new big patch."
~Datadragon

Noticed that, too. Stands to wonder which ones we are going to get - but of all of them the loti (:P) are the most important.

wolzarg
01-20-2016, 12:45 AM
Why would lord of the ingots be the most important he is barely playable?

Cainhu
01-20-2016, 02:15 AM
GenCon stuff was/is exclusive as well. Apparently they are fine with having exclusive PvE stuff. Who knows? Maybe Arena will go away with the next patch, resulting in the stuff that dropped there becoming exclusive stuff as well.

My other problem with these exclusives, that they are already unavilable to get when the game officially launches with the PvE update. That is wrong on sooo many levels IMHO for any playable content and could make a negative impression on new players. But it's too late to change it I guess.

wolzarg
01-20-2016, 02:30 AM
My other problem with these exclusives, that they are already unavilable to get when the game officially launches with the PvE update. That is wrong on sooo many levels IMHO for any playable content and could make a negative impression on new players. But it's too late to change it I guess.
A negative impression perhaps but one that is consistent with how the game will pan out going forward at least for the foreseeable future. There will be exclusives a few times a year for different reasons none will be able to grab them all. Kickstarter had exclusives those will be on the AH if you want them and the sleeves are just gone. I'm not saying its a good thing but people need to grasp the fact that there will be exclusives in this game and they can be practically anything except non AA pvp cards.

Yoss
01-20-2016, 09:25 AM
My other problem with these exclusives, that they are already unavilable to get when the game officially launches with the PvE update. That is wrong on sooo many levels IMHO for any playable content and could make a negative impression on new players. But it's too late to change it I guess.

The only one that should concern you is the Raid Leader account-bound bonus. Everything else can be had on the auction house or has no impact on your ability to "win" PvE fights.

fido_one
01-21-2016, 10:39 AM
A negative impression perhaps but one that is consistent with how the game will pan out going forward at least for the foreseeable future. There will be exclusives a few times a year for different reasons none will be able to grab them all. Kickstarter had exclusives those will be on the AH if you want them and the sleeves are just gone. I'm not saying its a good thing but people need to grasp the fact that there will be exclusives in this game and they can be practically anything except non AA pvp cards.

Honestly I think not being able to have everything is a good thing. Really. There was a time where I had to have EVERYTHING to scratch my collector itch, then like getting a dent on a car, once I realized it wasn't going to happen unless I won that 1.3 billion dollar powerball, I calmed down and became a lot more reasonable on my collection efforts.

Not to say I still don't WANT everything, but HexEnt made clear from the start that no one would really have the ability to attain everything in this game, and they managed to deliver on that promise without reducing the crack-like affect of collecting.

So if they're designing a game where no one can have a 100% complete set, I don't think they should pussy-foot around with exclusivities, especially in the nice balance in which they've found; everyone has a chance to get 99.99% in the game via the AH save for sleeves. Sooooo much better than their competitors and their very initial (and standard) idea of giving out exclusive items only if you were physically present at things like Gencon. <- I'd be pretty upset if I couldn't get a PvE card or an alt art card (before resorting to the AH) simply because I don't have the time or money to fly to wherever for a Hex event.

LordGorchnik
01-21-2016, 09:34 PM
Apologies for being late to the party but did I miss something on the Spectral Lotus card being changed? I know its the Oak/Acorn now but there are even more changes incoming for it?

I'm not going to say it was the entire reason I backed at the King tier level but I will certainly say that a large part of it was for owning both the amazing sleeve (which we no longer have) and card that was a throwback to one of the most powerful and sought after collectible cards from *the* biggest CCG in the world.

Has that all gone by the wayside now?

Xenavire
01-21-2016, 09:36 PM
The Squirrel is significantly weaker than the Tiger was, so in that sense it was nerfed. As far as we know, nothing else was changed, mechanically.

WolfCrypt
01-21-2016, 09:49 PM
Apologies for being late to the party but did I miss something on the Spectral Lotus card being changed? I know its the Oak/Acorn now but there are even more changes incoming for it?

I'm not going to say it was the entire reason I backed at the King tier level but I will certainly say that a large part of it was for owning both the amazing sleeve (which we no longer have) and card that was a throwback to one of the most powerful and sought after collectible cards from *the* biggest CCG in the world.

Has that all gone by the wayside now?

Hex was forced to change it they can't change it back Wizard took it as theft so made em change it. But don't you think that tree sleeve is pretty??

sukebe
01-21-2016, 11:14 PM
Apologies for being late to the party but did I miss something on the Spectral Lotus card being changed? I know its the Oak/Acorn now but there are even more changes incoming for it?

I'm not going to say it was the entire reason I backed at the King tier level but I will certainly say that a large part of it was for owning both the amazing sleeve (which we no longer have) and card that was a throwback to one of the most powerful and sought after collectible cards from *the* biggest CCG in the world.

Has that all gone by the wayside now?

it is only a tiny bit weaker because the squirrel is more random than the tiger. the lotus/acorn is still one of the most powerful cards in the game.

Showsni
01-22-2016, 07:07 AM
The Squirrel is significantly weaker than the Tiger was, so in that sense it was nerfed. As far as we know, nothing else was changed, mechanically.

Not necessarily significantly weaker. I mean, there are many occasions where a Squirrel can win you the game whereas a Tiger wouldn't. (It'll generally be 3/1 get a random card from your deck as opposed to 2/1 get a random card from Hex's entire pool of rares or legendaries your deck is capable of playing). And of course, we don't know what equips the Squirrel might have yet.

The Acorn itself still has the same effect (i.e. better Black Lotus) and what more could you ask for? I'll just view Spectral Oak as referencing three iconic cards from other TCGs instead of two. ;)

Xenavire
01-22-2016, 07:17 AM
Not necessarily significantly weaker. I mean, there are many occasions where a Squirrel can win you the game whereas a Tiger wouldn't. (It'll generally be 3/1 get a random card from your deck as opposed to 2/1 get a random card from Hex's entire pool of rares or legendaries your deck is capable of playing). And of course, we don't know what equips the Squirrel might have yet.

The Acorn itself still has the same effect (i.e. better Black Lotus) and what more could you ask for? I'll just view Spectral Oak as referencing three iconic cards from other TCGs instead of two. ;)

The Squirrel has a higher whiff chance than the tiger, and worse base stats. It also doesn't deck thin, which can be very imposrtant.

On rare occasions it might hand you a winning card, but you would be foolish to rely on it - where the tiger was almost never a bad play for any deck.

The core of the Acorn is fine, but there is no denying that the squirrel is far worse in most situations than the tiger would have been.

Khazrakh
01-22-2016, 07:38 AM
Worst part of the squirrel is that it stays in your deck for the rest of the dungeon (as far as we know) and the squirrel is a horribly bad card on its own. A 2/1 for 3 with a completely random effect is plain unplayable in a serious deck. It has it's place in fun/janky decks but it's something you'd never want to draw in a normal deck. The Tiger wasn't a great card itself but because of the 3/1 cantrip for 3 you'd be fine with it sitting in your deck after you popped the acorn.

Anyway, this has been discussed to hell and back already so there really is no point discussing it any further.

Xenavire
01-22-2016, 09:08 AM
Worst part of the squirrel is that it stays in your deck for the rest of the dungeon (as far as we know) and the squirrel is a horribly bad card on its own.

I do still wonder about this. I can't think they would let us do anything different to this, but HexEnt does go the extra mile to make us happy, so who knows? Maybe it will have an equipment that will check if it was in the deck when you started, and do something sweet to make up for being bad.

plaguedealer
01-22-2016, 09:10 AM
I do still wonder about this. I can't think they would let us do anything different to this, but HexEnt does go the extra mile to make us happy, so who knows? Maybe it will have an equipment that will check if it was in the deck when you started, and do something sweet to make up for being bad.

This is one of the main reasons I thought it went into play, I am wrong of course. Almost better to hit the squirrel with another erf bat and make it come into play.

Xenavire
01-22-2016, 09:12 AM
This is one of the main reasons I thought it went into play, I am wrong of course. Almost better to hit the squirrel with another erf bat and make it come into play.

Nerfing it further would be awful if it stays in the deck though - thats why I wanted the acorn nerfed rather than the squirrel, because at least both sides would be workable throughout the whole dungeon.

Remember, even if they let the squirrel do something sweet with equips, that is still equip slots used.

plaguedealer
01-22-2016, 09:15 AM
Nerfing it further would be awful if it stays in the deck though - thats why I wanted the acorn nerfed rather than the squirrel, because at least both sides would be workable throughout the whole dungeon.

Remember, even if they let the squirrel do something sweet with equips, that is still equip slots used.

If they nerf the squirrel, have it come into play (like a token) then it shouldnt stay in the deck. Nerfing the acorn would make people riot, since that is a very important mechanic.

Of course I guess you can combine four squirrels to make a acorn so you want the squirrels in your deck. Also poping a acorn would lead to a invalid deck.

Maybe just put a card in your hand with zero or one cost and say draw a card. Oh well.

Xenavire
01-22-2016, 09:35 AM
I'd like to try to add something, but your argument with yourself seems to have covered everything nicely. :p

Fred
01-22-2016, 01:54 PM
If they nerf the squirrel, have it come into play (like a token) then it shouldnt stay in the deck.

Having it not stay in the deck is not an option, as you would then end up with an invalid deck (fewer than 60 cards) for your next encouter.

tecnophi
01-22-2016, 02:18 PM
Speaking of kickstarter... I wonder if those high tiers will get all the copies of the first set of PvE card right at release or not.

Rycajo
01-22-2016, 02:25 PM
Having it not stay in the deck is not an option, as you would then end up with an invalid deck (fewer than 60 cards) for your next encouter.

Why is that not an option? The game can't handle the player starting with a 56 card deck? It would be too good? I will be a bit disappointed if Hex never creates Campaign encounters without variable card count restrictions.

Having the squirrel not be included in the deck the rest of the dungeon would definitely lead to more Acorns being busted, and that is what Acorn producers really want. More busted nuts.

Xenavire
01-22-2016, 02:29 PM
Why is that not an option? The game can't handle the player starting with a 56 card deck? It would be too good? I will be a bit disappointed if Hex never creates Campaign encounters without variable card count restrictions.

Having the squirrel not be included in the deck the rest of the dungeon would definitely lead to more Acorns being busted, and that is what Acorn producers really want. More busted nuts.

Then any equipment the squirrels have would be next to useless. I mean, it isn't a pure win.

thegreybetween
01-22-2016, 02:35 PM
I wonder if the release of Campaign will also lead to the Dungeon Crawler's "X pieces of rare/legendary equipment" which was postponed due to lack of content. Seems like we'll have plenty of stuff to chase for a while, so maybe now we'll see it?

Also makes me wonder if the stuff will be rolled on only the Campaign equipment tables, or if there are chances of getting chest/arena/etc loot with the reward as well. I'm hoping it is only the new stuff, as we've had plenty of time to grind up the existing stuff. But in any event, seems like a good time to hand out that reward.

hex_colin
01-22-2016, 06:49 PM
Speaking of kickstarter... I wonder if those high tiers will get all the copies of the first set of PvE card right at release or not.

Yes. That's what I paid for! ;)

wolzarg
01-22-2016, 09:20 PM
Yes. That's what I paid for! ;)
Colin the kicker of beehives emerges from the shadows to stir up trouble.