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View Full Version : Request: Support a dedicated HEX streamer with transcription software!



Largashbur
01-19-2016, 04:46 PM
Hey folks,

as a deaf person, Cirouss was the only person whose stream I could watch (and that was with subpar subtitles due to wonky freeware transcription software). Him leaving HEX led to a bad aftertaste in my mouth and I am unable to watch any of the many HEX streams from other people as they do not provide subtitles. From what I have heard from other streamers, most struggle with the freeware transcribing software that produces unsatisfactory subtitles and therefore have decided not to use it on their streams.

Professional transcribing/live subtitling software is not expensive, for example the world No. 1 in transcribing software, offers "Dragon Home" for a one-time fee of 74.99 $ ( http://www.nuance.com/for-individuals/by-product/dragon-for-pc/index.htm ) and even offers a 30-day-money-back period when the results are unsatisfactory.

Hence I was thinking, would the HEX community (which has been described by Cory as one of the best game communities) be able to start a fundraiser to buy one copy of this software, select a dedicated HEX streamer and give the copy to him/her so he/she can use it in his/her stream from this day onwards? Maybe Cryptozoic can help out with finding a streamer that is willing to include subtitles in his/her stream as they have already assigned several people as "exclusive" HEX streamers.

The deaf community that loves HEX (which is largely silent aside from me, unfortunately) would welcome such an action for sure!

Moreover, I'm sure that a stream with proper subtitles would be welcomed by normal people as well.

What are your thoughts?

Largashbur

Renquist
01-19-2016, 05:37 PM
Cirouss left hex...learn something new everyday.


On topic I would throw in a couple bucks for it.

hacky
01-19-2016, 06:06 PM
If you are a deaf Hex fan that would enjoy seeing subtitles on livestreams, what times are you likely to watch?

fido_one
01-19-2016, 06:08 PM
Cirouss left hex...learn something new everyday.


On topic I would throw in a couple bucks for it.

Cirouss left streaming I'm assuming, not Hex in general, right?

fido_one
01-19-2016, 06:13 PM
Hey folks,

as a deaf person, Cirouss was the only person whose stream I could watch (and that was with subpar subtitles due to wonky freeware transcription software). Him leaving HEX led to a bad aftertaste in my mouth and I am unable to watch any of the many HEX streams from other people as they do not provide subtitles. From what I have heard from other streamers, most struggle with the freeware transcribing software that produces unsatisfactory subtitles and therefore have decided not to use it on their streams.

Professional transcribing/live subtitling software is not expensive, for example the world No. 1 in transcribing software, offers "Dragon Home" for a one-time fee of 74.99 $ ( http://www.nuance.com/for-individuals/by-product/dragon-for-pc/index.htm ) and even offers a 30-day-money-back period when the results are unsatisfactory.

Hence I was thinking, would the HEX community (which has been described by Cory as one of the best game communities) be able to start a fundraiser to buy one copy of this software, select a dedicated HEX streamer and give the copy to him/her so he/she can use it in his/her stream from this day onwards? Maybe Cryptozoic can help out with finding a streamer that is willing to include subtitles in his/her stream as they have already assigned several people as "exclusive" HEX streamers.

The deaf community that loves HEX (which is largely silent aside from me, unfortunately) would welcome such an action for sure!

Moreover, I'm sure that a stream with proper subtitles would be welcomed by normal people as well.

What are your thoughts?

Largashbur

Sorry, onto your post Largashbur, I think this thread is great to point out the need for these sort of things as it flies over most of our radar. It would be difficult to put that responsibility onto HexEnt, however, as streamers are consistently changing and have no real allegiances to the company (concerned about your comment of Cirouss leaving Hex, but if he did, that's a case in point).

I thought Dragon Naturally Speaking had a version where it could take any audio feed and display it for the reader? A.k.a. DNS runs in the background and translates any verbal stuff? I swore I set that up for someone in the old days when I worked in higher education as a manager, albeit with some extra software to reroute any sound output to DNS. That would be over 8 years ago, however...

pjvedder
01-19-2016, 06:24 PM
Cirouss left streaming I'm assuming, not Hex in general, right?

Cirouss did not leave Hex or streaming for good, from what I've heard. As a matter of fact, he still streams a lot (other games, though). As far as I know (and as I learned during another twitch stream recently) he is just taking a break and should be back. I believe he actually even streamed Hex on the official twitch channel over the weekend. I imagine he'll be back streaming Hex more frequently at some point, though I obviously can't speak for him.

fido_one
01-19-2016, 06:30 PM
Cirouss did not leave Hex or streaming for good, from what I've heard. As a matter of fact, he still streams a lot (other games, though). As far as I know (and as I learned during another twitch stream recently) he is just taking a break and should be back. I believe he actually even streamed Hex on the official twitch channel over the weekend. I imagine he'll be back streaming Hex more frequently at some point, though I obviously can't speak for him.

Yeah, sounds like solid reasoning, probably just getting prepared for the invitational either by taking general time off, or doing some dedicated training for the comp and doesn't want people to snipe his strategy. Just double checking that hell didn't freeze over.

Vengus
01-19-2016, 06:47 PM
Yeah, sounds like solid reasoning, probably just getting prepared for the invitational either by taking general time off, or doing some dedicated training for the comp and doesn't want people to snipe his strategy. Just double checking that hell didn't freeze over.
Cirouss never qualified for the invitational. You might be confusing him with Cyriius or with another big streamer, Infamousne0, who did qualify for the invitational.

fido_one
01-19-2016, 06:49 PM
Cirouss never qualified for the invitational. You might be confusing him with Cyriius or with another big streamer, Infamousne0, who did qualify for the invitational.

Ah yes, always did that. I'm an idiot. Disregard. Still, if Cirouss is off of Hex for good, hell will have frozen over. Infamousne0 definitely made it, always got the Cyriius / cirouss thing confused.

wolzarg
01-19-2016, 08:44 PM
Ah yes, always did that. I'm an idiot. Disregard. Still, if Cirouss is off of Hex for good, hell will have frozen over. Infamousne0 definitely made it, always got the Cyriius / cirouss thing confused.
You and me both buddy someone should force name change one of them to steve.

Largashbur
01-20-2016, 01:56 AM
I thought Dragon Naturally Speaking had a version where it could take any audio feed and display it for the reader? A.k.a. DNS runs in the background and translates any verbal stuff? I swore I set that up for someone in the old days when I worked in higher education as a manager, albeit with some extra software to reroute any sound output to DNS. That would be over 8 years ago, however...

Unfortunately that is impossible (the problem would be so much easier to solve then).

Regarding the terminology (someone pointed that out on reddit) - thats why we need a dedicated streamer for this purpose. This software can be taught "foreign" terminology, but it will always have to be taught with the speaker's specific "quirks".



If you are a deaf Hex fan that would enjoy seeing subtitles on livestreams, what times are you likely to watch?

While I am most likely to watch from 6pm to 12pm GMT, that's not even the issue. Because I would watch VOD's of past streams for sure if they included any subtitles. You have to imagine there is not a single youtube video/VOD about HEX with proper subtitles!

fido_one
01-20-2016, 08:26 AM
Unfortunately that is impossible (the problem would be so much easier to solve then).

Regarding the terminology (someone pointed that out on reddit) - thats why we need a dedicated streamer for this purpose. This software can be taught "foreign" terminology, but it will always have to be taught with the speaker's specific "quirks".


Well not an impossibility as it's been done with a audio re-loop in the past (I forgot which version, maybe 9? It was a bit of a community hack from some people who focused on things like Shark), but I see what you're getting at; the result is a bit poorer than what youtube/google uses for it's auto-transcription software (voice-mails and videos).

Since you're talking heuristic recognition than yes, it would have to be a concerted effort by streamers for transcription if you want it in real time. Even if given DNS, you'd have to ask the streamer to learn the ropes on it, train in it, etc. It's been years since I used DNS, but it is a bit of an art to use effectively, doubt that has changed too much with newer versions (though I bow to your experience with it).

You mention that you would watch VODs of past streams if they had proper subtitles, than I'd argue if money is to be spent, that an entity spends it on Amazon Mechanical Turk for a subset of videos. Very affordable, human driven transcription, and can be set up to have someone auto transcribe (I think) on whatever your stream of choice is.

Largashbur
01-20-2016, 02:54 PM
Hey folks,

thanks to this thread I found someone that would be willing to sponsor the money for a copy of Dragon 13.

Now I need the community's help with the second step: Which streamer would be dedicated to spend time and energy in training this software with HEX terminology and display the subtitles on his stream? Moreover, which streamer do you feel would be best suited for this purpose (which streamer in your opinion explains his game best/most accurately)?

Thanks!

Largashbur

Zophie
01-20-2016, 03:04 PM
As far as regular streamers go though I think Hacky is probably savvy enough to set this up and is good at commentary, if anyone can do it I'm sure he could.

Largashbur
01-25-2016, 03:18 AM
I'm glad to announce that we have decided to sponsor Dinotropia with a free copy of Dragon NS and hope he will be able to provide HEX videos/streams that are accessible for the deaf community in the future! :)

Dinotropia
02-16-2016, 12:39 AM
I'm glad to announce that we have decided to sponsor Dinotropia with a free copy of Dragon NS and hope he will be able to provide HEX videos/streams that are accessible for the deaf community in the future! :)

Thanks so much, Largashbur!

I am looking forward to making HEX more accessible to a larger community, and I wanted to do a "state of affairs" post since it has been a while since this initial thread and the Dragon Software donation.

I am working on the technical back-end necessary to have refreshable, scrolling text work with OBS or other streaming software. I have been working through several possible solutions, but it is a problem that is harder to fix than it seems.

What I have found is that there are some software solutions that do what I want (see TwitchCaptions (http://twitchcaptions.cybutek.net/index.php) for an example) but they use the Windows speech recognition API which has a humorous rate of accuracy. TwitchCaptions, for example, provides a 60-70% rate in my testing -- which sounds good until you realize that this percentage means that 1 in 4 words are wrong. It is very hard to have intelligible subtitles with that low a rate (For example, the FCC aims for an accuracy rate of 98% (http://www.3playmedia.com/2014/04/03/fccs-new-quality-standards-closed-captioning-video-programming/) in live-broadcasting situations).

Dragon has proved to be promising on the accuracy front (and furthermore, is a learning software so will theoretically get better over time), but the challenge is to get Dragon inputted text to appear in a manner that can be captured and put on the screen. Getting a text-file to do what TwitchCaptions does is my current hurdle.

Thank you for your patience, and if anyone has ideas that might help, they are more than welcome to post them here. If anyone would be interested in either donating some programming time or can direct me to existing software solutions, it would be greatly appreciated!

Mokog
02-16-2016, 10:22 AM
This does not seem to have a good out of the box solution. The broadcast companies appear to pay good money to have this done on television broadcasts and are often using well trained and highly accurate stenographers to generate the text. Then proprietary software is used to input that information into the broadcasts. I am far from being a coder but Dino's methodology seems fairly solid when he figures out the delivery method.

What we may have to do in the interim is get more VOD content available with transcriptions. Though that will not solve the live content issue it can help partially serve the need.

Largashbur
02-22-2016, 11:55 AM
As the TwitchCaptions developer was so friendly that he coded a version of TwitchCaptions to read from a textfile. That's a great step forward. Now, we just need a *.txt-generating software that autosaves in second-intervals (even when it loses focus so a AutoHotkeyscript with Ctrl+S is not the way to go). Most text software with autosave function (e.g. Notepad++) has the minimum set at one minute.

Can anyone help out here?

Largashbur

wolzarg
02-22-2016, 12:23 PM
Probably a very convoluted solution but considering notepad++ is open source wouldn't that be a fairly easy fix to change just that one thing if someone knows how to code within the language?

Warrender
02-22-2016, 12:31 PM
As the TwitchCaptions developer was so friendly that he coded a version of TwitchCaptions to read from a textfile. That's a great step forward. Now, we just need a *.txt-generating software that autosaves in second-intervals (even when it loses focus so a AutoHotkeyscript with Ctrl+S is not the way to go). Most text software with autosave function (e.g. Notepad++) has the minimum set at one minute.

Can anyone help out here?

Largashbur

I know there is an AutoSave plugin for the open-source Notepad++. Don't know if it has the features you are looking for though.

https://sites.google.com/site/fstellari/nppplugins

Largashbur
02-22-2016, 12:43 PM
I know there is an AutoSave plugin for the open-source Notepad++. Don't know if it has the features you are looking for though.

https://sites.google.com/site/fstellari/nppplugins

Thanks Warrender,

this autosave plugin has a minimum time of 1 minute. I tried contacting the developer to no avail. He's out of the scene.

If anyone can code Notepad++ plugins, your help would be greatly appreciated!

Largashbur

SaDOlution
02-22-2016, 01:06 PM
Hello Friends!

I think deciding wich Streamer will be handed out the copy of Dragon 13 will, and definatly should, take some time, since as you mentioned, we probably have a good amount of players, just like me, not reading forums a whole lot or not at all.

There are a good amount of different streamers out there, wich all focus on a different aspect, when it comes to streaming HEX.
Infam0usne0 (http://www.twitch.tv/infam0usne0)
Hackychannel (http://www.twitch.tv/hackychannel)
SilentSnake76 (http://www.twitch.tv/silentsnake76)
Alucard2004 (http://www.twitch.tv/alucard2004)
Dinotropia (http://www.twitch.tv/dinotropia)
Sithos (http://www.twitch.tv/sithos)

I think those streamers are the ones that are streaming the most, very consistently and/or for a very long time already.

Before we jump out and say "I want streamer "XY" to have the software!", we should definatly take some factor into account:
Some people like very deep analytical commentating while others, mostly new players, would probably want to know more about the cards and what they do, others prefer just the social part of the stream.
Considering that deaf HEX-Players are likely going to be the minority, i think the part about "what cards do" shouldn't be much of consideration. Learning cards can someone on his/her own and we probably will have more deaf "long time players" then new deaf players.
That said, i think a streamer more focused on commentating for people with basic knowledge should be the pick. A focus on the social part above the game itself isn't bad, but i think that the game should be more important, considering we are talking about a single copy of Dragon 13.
Also, we would need to know wich of those streamers do actually want to set something like this up.

Based on that, I'd personally recommend: Dinotropia, Alucard2004 and Hackychannel, since those talk the most about the actual game itself. From here it's more about preference.

Those are my thoughts on this Topic.

Cheers,
SaDOlution

hacky
02-22-2016, 01:59 PM
The streamer chosen was indeed Dinotropia. :)

From what I understand, the current difficulty is as follows:
- Dragon is picky about the program to which it outputs its transcription. It can't use any given text editor (such as Notepad++), it must use a supported program.
- The program Dragon outputs to has to stay in focus for transcription to work. That makes simultaneously playing a game of Hex difficult.
- (for the current proposed implementation of subtitles) The text editor that Dragon transcribes to has to save its text file more often than once a minute, so that the subtitle-displaying program can read and display the transcription.

It seems that the medical version of Dragon can actually do this, but that's a cool ~$1.5K upgrade.

Showsni
02-22-2016, 03:58 PM
Is it possible to use a text hooker to nab the text off Dragon and output it elsewhere? There are programmes like Visual Novel Reader and Anime Game Text Hooker designed to hook text from games/programmes for the purposes of translation on the fly; could you use something similar to hook the text from Dragon and output it somewhere more useful?