PDA

View Full Version : Reworking Chests and Wheels of Fate?



Crota
01-19-2016, 11:02 PM
I just wanted to ask if anyone else feels like Chest Spinning is not working out as a proper gold sink. My main concern is that the Wheels of Fate rewards are often over shadowing the rewards of the chest themselves. If you look at the majority of chase items, Slaughtergears, Alternate Art items, (Azurefate Sorc/Root Fathers) you notice the majority of the highly sought after items come from chest spinning rewards rather than the chest themselves. It has often been said there is no reason in spinning anything but common chests. Why? Because the rewards for items in chests are not that valuable and you rather save your gold spinning common chests instead.

Perhaps this was all simply an oversight and Slaughter Gear cards were meant to be placed also in chests as well? (Coming from a partially bitter player who has spent a lot of time spinning rare and higher level chests early on before all data was released) We will never know. What I do know is the market and the supposed value of chests currently. Last time I checked on the Auction House, Uncommon and Rare chests from all 3 sets are priced lower than their corresponding Common chests.

The real question is this: Has this been looked into and addressed for set 4 or are the wheels of fate and chests working as intended and common chests are suppose to be more valuable than uncommon/rare chests?

wolzarg
01-19-2016, 11:16 PM
People care about commons for wheel reward and primals for sleeves mostly i think this is working pretty much as intended. When more pve content comes out more equipment from chests and more pve cards might become interesting giving midrange chests some value back.

Deathlock
01-19-2016, 11:20 PM
I agree that's weird that common chests are worth more then rare ones, it shouldn't be that way. Also I don't like that equipment rarity doesn't correspond to its power mostly.

Salverus
01-20-2016, 12:05 AM
it is because spinning a common chest has exactly the same chance for each reward as spinning as rare chest. While common is 1200 gold and rare 8000 gold.
If they want us to spin rarer chests, it should contain significantly higher rewards on average. e.g. uncommon chest only uncommon items and up, rare chest only rare items and up.
for now I just keep opening uncommons and rares without spinning.

Crota
01-20-2016, 08:31 AM
It sounds like Wheels of Fate and chest opening are meant to be two separate things with separate rewards. Although it would be easy to say, lets increase rewards of wheels of fate spinning on higher chests so that it is inline with the cost that still doesn't solve the problem of the chest themselves being under valued. (EG: Value of no spin common vs value of no spin uncommon are roughly the same). As it stands there is a -10p reward when spinning an "upgrade from common to uncommon with paid spin not accounting for the 1,200g it took to spin it in the first place. I feel punished for rolling an upgrade on a chest rather than rewarded.

If the only reason people are spinning chest is because they want wheels of fate rewards, people should be able to do exactly that. Buy common chests and spin them. This drives a market for common chests for those hunting for a specific card from wheels of fate.

HexEnt is missing out on a very valuable gold sink by not rewarding players spinning higher level chests. Will this pattern continue for set 4 chests when it is released or did the designers notice this, deem it to be a problem, and address it?

Fred
01-20-2016, 09:58 AM
The campaign is not here yet. Most of the equipment is worthless because it goes on cards that are useless in the Frost Ring Arena. Once the campaign comes out, and evolves, and we get more dungeons and raids, there might be some pieces of equipment in those legendary chests that will turn the tides on a given encounter.

It is impossible to properly evaluate the content of chests since they are meant to be used with something that doesn't exist yet.

katkillad
01-20-2016, 10:07 AM
I'm not sure that things aren't working as intended, but I don't really like these deck defining cards being so hard to get. Even if they were more common to the point where they cost 400-500p it would be better.

LNQ
01-20-2016, 12:43 PM
The Wheels of Fate system is messed up. The ramp up in cost of spinning chests is out of whack. It was way back in the beginning and it still is now. That's what ruins the whole chest system. Nothing in the campaign can fix the discrepancy between rolling a common vs rolling a legendary.

If gold value would plummet, which is the only way to make spinning legendaries a sane thing to do, then it wouldn't make sense for common chest spins to be at 1200 gold as it would amount to nothing. So that is not a valid mix either.

The cost of spinning chests shouldn't be so different between different rarity chests.

Deathlock
01-20-2016, 01:02 PM
The Wheels of Fate system is messed up. The ramp up in cost of spinning chests is out of whack. It was way back in the beginning and it still is now. That's what ruins the whole chest system. Nothing in the campaign can fix the discrepancy between rolling a common vs rolling a legendary.
The cost of spinning chests shouldn't be so different between different rarity chests.

+1. Even if there was no difference between spinning costs, it still would be better, then it's now! Now people are more happy to get a common chest then an uncommon, or rare one. Also, the whole rarity system of stuff like chests and equipment is absolutely messed up, and that should be fixed ASAP.

Tazelbain
01-20-2016, 01:41 PM
There is a entitlement vibe to this thread similar to convocation pack / Storm Family debate. Like Hex owes a person to make every thing attainable to within a persons comfort zone. And when something not in their comfort zone, they try to argue something that system that determines the available that is something is broken. I know it's a bitter pill to swallow but Cory's philosophy on collectables guarantees that if you want everything, it's going to ridiculously expense and there will be things that are quite impossible.

The given how chase sleeves have been, 30,000g primal rolls doesn't seem out of bounds. But if you have every chest sleeve, I don't how anyone can justify rolling on a legendary or rares. I'd love see the math if anyone cares to share.

Fred
01-20-2016, 01:43 PM
The given how chase sleeves have been, 30,000g doesn't seem out bounds. But if you have every chest sleeve, I don't how anyone can justify rolling on a legendary or rares. I'd love see the math if anyone cares to share.

Is it confirmed that sleeves are the only thing that are exclusive to primal chests?

LNQ
01-20-2016, 01:49 PM
There is a entitlement vibe to this thread similar to convocation pack / Storm Family debate. Like Hex owes a person to make every thing attainable to within a persons comfort zone. And when something not in their comfort zone, they try to argue something that system that determines the available that is something is broken. I know it's a bitter pill to swallow but Cory's philosophy on collectables guarantees that if you want everything, it's going to ridiculously expense and there will be things that are quite impossible.

I agree that not everything should be easily attainable. The problem is more in the fact that common chests are currently valued higher than uncommon and rare chests. Which is completely bonkers and cannot be intended.

Fixed cost to all Wheel of Fate spins regardless of rarity would fix all of this. Either that or then increased chance of a winning spin for higher rarity chests.

Deathlock
01-20-2016, 02:37 PM
Yes, the problem is not that something is difficult to obtain. The problem is rarity doesn't correspond to value\power\etc. So it's quite weird, when you are glad to get a common chest or equipment and not that happy at all to get a rare one! It just feels weird..just imagine such thing in any MMORPG...it's an absurd, but it's not that difficult to fix.

Svenn
01-20-2016, 02:54 PM
What people don't understand is that higher rarity chests cost more to spin because of the chance of upgrade. That's what spinning the wheels is about. You can spin common chests all day long and the best you'll get back is a rare chest. If you want primal chests to open though (which have exclusive rewards)... you need to be spinning rare/legendary chests. That's the ONLY way to get a Primal chest since you can't get them from packs.

TJTaylor
01-20-2016, 03:17 PM
Is it confirmed that sleeves are the only thing that are exclusive to primal chests?

No. There is also 1 AA PvP card that can only be found in a primal chest for each set. AA Mastery of Time, AA Arborean Rootfather, and AA Charge Colossus are primal only. If you aren't interested in these things, which would be understandable considering how little they are selling for, then there is very little reason to spend gold attempting to upgrade to higher tier chests at this time.

Honestly, though, what else are we going to spend gold on? I suppose if you are a f2player who needs gold to buy PvP cards without having to purchase plat, that is one reason to horde gold but otherwise gold is free, easily obtained, and meant to be thrown away on chest spins and stardust so might as well. Gold has no other purpose and is practically worthless, which is funny considering the absurdly high value people seem to have attributed to it in the market. Might as well spend a couple 100 thousand to turn some rare and legendary chests into primals to get what is in them.

Deathlock
01-20-2016, 03:23 PM
Svenn , I don't think that someone doesn't understand that, but secondary market (AH) clearly says us that something is wrong. It is just stupid and absurd that common items cost more than rare ones.

Crota
01-20-2016, 03:29 PM
What people don't understand is that higher rarity chests cost more to spin because of the chance of upgrade. That's what spinning the wheels is about. You can spin common chests all day long and the best you'll get back is a rare chest. If you want primal chests to open though (which have exclusive rewards)... you need to be spinning rare/legendary chests. That's the ONLY way to get a Primal chest since you can't get them from packs.

I understand higher rarity chests means you have a chance at getting a primal chest, the issue is the value of the chest itself is rather low. Take for instance a rare chest. It costs 20p to buy on the AH. It then costs 8500g to roll and you have a "chance" at getting a Legendary Chest. Value of Legendary Chest, 110p. If you are interested in just the chest and spinning a rare chest for the chance of an upgrade, it is always more economical to buy a legendary chest outright rather than upgrading it from a rare for a chance.

All of this said, the economy of the game is set by the AH and we set the prices on the AH. If something is really undervalued and you perceive its value will go up, perhaps we should be buying it?

nicosharp
01-20-2016, 03:33 PM
I think the current chest system is fairly ingenious. As painful as it may be as a collector, and as someone that realizes the tangible $ value of the gold I am spending "gambling", and the injustices between common spinning and legendary spinning - I'm still okay with it all.

The only thing I wish happened were rewards for spinning higher-level chests also leveled up based on what you were spending to spin it. Or at least, the % chance to proc...

sukebe
01-20-2016, 04:12 PM
I understand higher rarity chests means you have a chance at getting a primal chest, the issue is the value of the chest itself is rather low. Take for instance a rare chest. It costs 20p to buy on the AH. It then costs 8500g to roll and you have a "chance" at getting a Legendary Chest. Value of Legendary Chest, 110p. If you are interested in just the chest and spinning a rare chest for the chance of an upgrade, it is always more economical to buy a legendary chest outright rather than upgrading it from a rare for a chance.

All of this said, the economy of the game is set by the AH and we set the prices on the AH. If something is really undervalued and you perceive its value will go up, perhaps we should be buying it?

remember that rare chests can (about 3% of the time according to the WoF tracking thread we had a long while ago) turn into a primal chest. That is the main reason I would pay to roll a rare instead of a common.

Personally, I think the only change that would be really helpful to make is to put the more powerful rares/legendaries (like the slaughtergear troops) into the chests instead of the wheel of fate. if you could only get sluaghtergear's from opening chests you could bet the higher rarity chests would be sold for a least a little more since you have almost no chance of getting then from a common or uncommon chest.

Xenavire
01-20-2016, 04:24 PM
I think the current chest system is fairly ingenious. As painful as it may be as a collector, and as someone that realizes the tangible $ value of the gold I am spending "gambling", and the injustices between common spinning and legendary spinning - I'm still okay with it all.

The only thing I wish happened were rewards for spinning higher-level chests also leveled up based on what you were spending to spin it. Or at least, the % chance to proc...

The idea is ingenious, the implementation could do with minor tweaks so that it isn't a feel bad experience 90% of the time.

nicosharp
01-20-2016, 04:26 PM
The idea is ingenious, the implementation could do with minor tweaks so that it isn't a feel bad experience 90% of the time.

I agree with you. When I go from a penny slot to a $1 slot per spin in a casino, I don't expect the same payouts. At least have the gold hits on par with the payment increases for the chest spins.. Even hitting 2 gold wheels on a uncommon spin is underwhelming.

Monkranos
01-20-2016, 04:36 PM
Yea, I think that the gold icon payout should be based on the chest level (to give a similar proportion to common), and the chance of special icons (both gold and red) should have a slightly higher frequency based on the chest rarity. So higher quality chests have a better chance of giving special results. Unfortunately for Hex, any change in this regard would require, due to player outrage, a back payment for the new value.

Personally I think it would go a long way to making the chests feel more rewarding than the gold sink in currently feels like.

Biz
01-20-2016, 04:44 PM
i just find it very confusing

i could avoid a lot of confusion by just trading the unspun chests for spun chests, but nobody even knows what that is worth so it ends up being even more confusing

Xenavire
01-20-2016, 04:48 PM
i just find it very confusing

i could avoid a lot of confusion by just trading the unspun chests for spun chests, but nobody even knows what that is worth so it ends up being even more confusing

To be honest, this is a good representation of one of the other problems with it. I love it when it pays out, but it does need to be more user friendly and understandable - even now I still have to tell people about respins etc.

kingzzk
01-20-2016, 05:06 PM
No. There is also 1 AA PvP card that can only be found in a primal chest for each set. AA Mastery of Time, AA Arborean Rootfather, and AA Charge Colossus are primal only. If you aren't interested in these things, which would be understandable considering how little they are selling for, then there is very little reason to spend gold attempting to upgrade to higher tier chests at this time.

Honestly, though, what else are we going to spend gold on? I suppose if you are a f2player who needs gold to buy PvP cards without having to purchase plat, that is one reason to horde gold but otherwise gold is free, easily obtained, and meant to be thrown away on chest spins and stardust so might as well. Gold has no other purpose and is practically worthless, which is funny considering the absurdly high value people seem to have attributed to it in the market. Might as well spend a couple 100 thousand to turn some rare and legendary chests into primals to get what is in them.

COD me any amount of gold, I'll compensate you at 1:130 rate :)

Malicus
01-20-2016, 05:08 PM
rares value is due to a lower demand, it isnt feasible for most people ti roll 100 rare chests for the upgrade but rolling 100 common chests for chances at reavers and aas is within reason. Demand is higher for commons than rares so value increases, i have rolled all my set 3 commons and i still havent gotten through all my set 3 rares so if i was going to buy a chest it would be a common not a rare.

If hex had information that people werent rolling rares they might consider changing things up but i do not believe this to be the case so do not expect to see any changes.

Additionally i expect to be earning more gold and opening less packs when campaign launches so we will see many people start to clear out some of their chest backlogs.

poizonous
01-20-2016, 05:16 PM
Easiest change to chests should bee gold payout. 1 gold icon - .4x the cost of the spin 2 gold icons 1.5x the spin 3 guild icons 4x the cost

Yoss
01-20-2016, 06:39 PM
Unfortunately for Hex, any change in this regard would require, due to player outrage, a back payment for the new value.

Easy. Just make the change (if one is needed) start with Set 4.

Crota
01-20-2016, 10:44 PM
I realized something, perceived value is not the same as real value. Just because pay spin rare chests are being sold for 20 plat doesn't mean they are only worth 20 plat. Once more of the game is released perhaps there will be more value in items from chests. With deck restrictions, common cards and equipment may be necessary to level up your character before you get into the upper echelons of leveling. Just as people have calculated the expected value of a pack upon opening, the same should be done for chests as well. Based on my limited sample size from opening rare chests, there are either some over valued items from rare chests or the rare chests themselves are undervalued.

wolzarg
01-20-2016, 11:04 PM
Easiest change to chests should bee gold payout. 1 gold icon - .4x the cost of the spin 2 gold icons 1.5x the spin 3 guild icons 4x the cost
This is really the one issue i have with spins. The absolute slap in the face to get even 5k back on a "big winner" spin when you spin a 30k legend is a insult. Instead on a common you just cheer because that is another 4 spins payed for instantly.