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ryuukan
01-21-2016, 12:21 PM
From the Mage talents article on gameforge (http://en.hex.gameforge.com/news.html?p=5025)


LEADERSHIP +1 Mercenary Slot

While a typical hero will eventually be to take three mercenaries around with them, a Human has the unique ability to take a fourth. Not only does this mean you’ll functionally get an extra life during Dungeon Runs, you’ll also be able to populate your bench with a fourth deck and champion, meaning you’ll have a broader tool kit to access when it comes to selecting a champion for individual fights.

Are we getting mercs day 1 now?

Miwa
01-21-2016, 12:23 PM
From the PC Gamer interview, no....

poizonous
01-21-2016, 12:29 PM
no Mercs day 1 is a brutal blow, im really curious what is the biggest challenge they are having with mercenaries

Maylick
01-21-2016, 12:32 PM
Guys, the Mage update is the only think you really should discuss. >< Just look at that gorgeus stuff!

Tazelbain
01-21-2016, 12:40 PM
From the PC Gamer interview, no....Surely it's development bandwidth. If it was an R&D issue, he would said so like he did for Doublebacks.

hammer
01-21-2016, 12:43 PM
I don't remember mercs being ruled out in the pcgamer interview. But I do remember Cory speaking about the kickstarter merc zoltog

Fred
01-21-2016, 12:44 PM
Doesn't the 3rd racial trait unlock at level 15, and PvE is capped at level 10 for now? It would make that point moot.

Svenn
01-21-2016, 12:59 PM
From the PC Gamer interview, no....

Where in there did he say that? Mercs seem kind of important since they are your health...

Stormlight
01-21-2016, 01:09 PM
Where in there did he say that? Mercs seem kind of important since they are your health...

If I'm remembering correctly, he made an ambiguous statement; something like, "Mercs aren't in there now." It could be taken to mean that though we don't have mercs now, we'll get them when PvE comes out, or it could mean that mercs aren't in the PvE build that they currently have.

Edit: He starts talking about mercenaries at about 1:39:00 and says they "aren't in the game at this point."

Tazelbain
01-21-2016, 01:17 PM
It'll be interesting to see how they balance the merc decks with player deck restrictions on cards. Like are the merc's deck leveling with you?

YourOpponent
01-21-2016, 01:19 PM
From looking at that article it looks like at level 9 there's 16 talent points you can put in. That's pretty awesome and means we don't need to wait until we start leveling up to use talent points!

Vorsa
01-21-2016, 01:24 PM
From looking at that article it looks like at level 9 there's 16 talent points you can put in. That's pretty awesome and means we don't need to wait until we start leveling up to use talent points!

There's actually only 8 points on display, which is consistent with 1 per level-up:
> 5 available
> 1 in Telekinesis (glowing)
> 2 in Open Mind (glowing)

However that character mightn't be indicative, as he has 20 starting health when it should be 14 according to the text (hasn't selected Spry and too low level for Cerulean Scholarship).

Koz
01-21-2016, 01:27 PM
Eh...some of those talents seem...blah. I don't much care for the talents that only work with specific traits, like "mage" or "elemental". While I'm sure some decent decks can be built around these, I'm not sure I like the idea of taking a permanent talent that will either force me to build certain decks throughout the life of a character, or be useless when I don't. Also, the one named "Secret Knowledge" is questionable because it does not include the language of "..of cost 1 or more". So you could end up giving a shard or a 0 cost card -2 cost based on the wording, which makes it pretty terrible.

The card draw stuff (including the increased starting hand size one) are all good though, as is the one that bounces a troop.

Xenavire
01-21-2016, 01:29 PM
This shoild go without saying at this point, but it is highly likely that we get 1 (or less) talent points per level up, otherwise it would be possible to select most of the talents easily (going against the idea of meaningful choices Cory and Ben have talked about.)

fido_one
01-21-2016, 01:34 PM
Honestly all the 'that isn't good comments', can we please just wait until next week?

Let's see how the campaign feels, regardless of promised content made years ago. If we're running around the map and the talents are super crap or we just can't play because we don't have KS PvE rewards or not having 6 classes makes it unplayable or not having mercs destroy the game, I understand where you are coming from (actually I don't, but I'm also exaggerating on comments made so no direct shots at specific commentators meant here).

Anyways... could we please... just wait... until it comes out to see how much of a hit those things really are?

poizonous
01-21-2016, 01:36 PM
Fido - No mercs are a direct hit, as they have been described Mercenaries are like extra lives. Without them you have a single life (Just a guess but it makes sense) to clear a dungeon

Xenavire
01-21-2016, 01:40 PM
Fido - No mercs are a direct hit, as they have been described Mercenaries are like extra lives. Without them you have a single life (Just a guess but it makes sense) to clear a dungeon

How did you ever come to that conclusion? As far as I have always understood it, we get 3 strikes standard, just like arena, then we get modifiers (assuming mercs actually add chances and don't just use the same lives.)

I doubt it would be a blow for anything except variety, and I say we can wait a little while for that.

Maylick
01-21-2016, 01:41 PM
Fido - No mercs are a direct hit, as they have been described Mercenaries are like extra lives. Without them you have a single life (Just a guess but it makes sense) to clear a dungeon

3 basic lives were mentioned many times.

poizonous
01-21-2016, 01:42 PM
As I said just a guess, but it makes sense if you think about it. Mercs have been described as an additional life in the dungeons. I guess I just assumed 1 life without mercs but yeah frost arena does have 3 lives so it does have more support to see it that way

@Maylick - Yeah I guess I missed that

Svenn
01-21-2016, 01:45 PM
How did you ever come to that conclusion? As far as I have always understood it, we get 3 strikes standard, just like arena, then we get modifiers (assuming mercs actually add chances and don't just use the same lives.)

I doubt it would be a blow for anything except variety, and I say we can wait a little while for that.

3 Lives + 3+ mercs for 6+ lives? That seems highly unlikely. We've seen nothing to indicate that. Seemed to me like your 3 mercs ARE your 3 lives.

Miwa
01-21-2016, 01:46 PM
You could always have "Mercs" as lives at launch, but they are just nothing more than a strike, with no playable deck attached or anything.

"You have 3 Mercs." Lose a match. "You have 2 Mercs".

Maylick
01-21-2016, 01:47 PM
3 Lives + 3+ mercs for 6+ lives? That seems highly unlikely. We've seen nothing to indicate that. Seemed to me like your 3 mercs ARE your 3 lives.

Can't check right now but this was actually said even during the last stream with Cory 2 days ago.

Svenn
01-21-2016, 01:48 PM
Can't check right now but this was actually said even during the last stream with Cory 2 days ago.

I watched that whole stream and don't remember anything like this. That kind of sucks. That's way too many lives.

Xenavire
01-21-2016, 01:52 PM
Can't check right now but this was actually said even during the last stream with Cory 2 days ago.

How is this a problem if dungeons are balanced properly? Plus those 'lives' force you to use those other decks, which could be even worse for an encounter.

Koz
01-21-2016, 01:52 PM
I watched that whole stream and don't remember anything like this. That kind of sucks. That's way too many lives.

Possibly, but maybe the Mercs stay dead if they die in a Dungeon? So maybe how it works is that you get 3 base lives each time you enter a Dungeon, plus your number of surviving Mercs. That seems alright, since there sounds like there are several dungeons per campaign so losing Mercs hurt, especially early in the Campaign. But who knows, I guess we'll see.

plaguedealer
01-21-2016, 01:56 PM
The fiveshards article from mokog gives a summary of the whole interview. Mercs giving extra lives in a dungeon is bolded.

Svenn
01-21-2016, 01:58 PM
The fiveshards article from mokog gives a summary of the whole interview. Mercs giving extra lives in a dungeon is bolded.

Which means....? Extra lives on top of the 1 life you have? Or on top of 3 base lives?

plaguedealer
01-21-2016, 02:01 PM
Which means....? Extra lives on top of the 1 life you have? Or on top of 3 base lives?

I dont know, but mercs give extra lives. A hard dungeon with 15 encounters may require 6 lives to the normal person.

poizonous
01-21-2016, 02:01 PM
I guess the amount of lives are all dependant on how much the AI improves. 6 lives with a joke of an AI is like rookie mode

Xenavire
01-21-2016, 02:05 PM
Which means....? Extra lives on top of the 1 life you have? Or on top of 3 base lives?

It would have to be 3 lives, or they A) wouldn't release PvE without it since 1 life dungeons would be too harsh on new players, and B) even if mercs were there, they would have to start giving out mercs very early or players would be stuck at 1 life either way, and C) even if B) were true, players likely wouldn't have a great enough variety of cards to support merc decks that had any theme different to the race they picked.

It seems very unlikely that dungeons would only have 1 life without mercs.

poizonous
01-21-2016, 02:15 PM
I would prefer 3 strikes with mercenaries being assigned to one of those strikes

Xenavire
01-21-2016, 02:16 PM
I would prefer 3 strikes with mercenaries being assigned to one of those strikes

I'd be fine with this personally - they could just have mercs that add a life as well as their normal effect if they wanted some easy mode mercs.

Zophie
01-21-2016, 02:42 PM
I just wonder how the game will decide which merc dies if you lose a life. Will it be randomly picked? Will it be based on the "marching order" of the mercs? Will we get to pick which one? It'll be interesting to find out the details of how this will work.

poizonous
01-21-2016, 02:48 PM
I just wonder how the game will decide which merc dies if you lose a life. Will it be randomly picked? Will it be based on the "marching order" of the mercs? Will we get to pick which one? It'll be interesting to find out the details of how this will work.

my assumption would be your merc dies if you choose to use your merc deck

Xenavire
01-21-2016, 03:02 PM
If it shares with your strikes, I would assume they all stay available, but you only get as many chances as you have lives (meaning if you go down to 2 lives, you could use 2 different mercs 1 time, and one wouldn't get used.)

Zophie
01-21-2016, 03:08 PM
If it shares with your strikes, I would assume they all stay available, but you only get as many chances as you have lives (meaning if you go down to 2 lives, you could use 2 different mercs 1 time, and one wouldn't get used.)

That's kind of what I was thinking, but that wouldn't line up with what they said about mercs providing passives while they're still alive, unless I misunderstood that part.

Rycajo
01-21-2016, 03:16 PM
The Cleric Talent Fortitude would be pretty strong if the base number of dungeon lives was one:

https://www.hextcg.com/cleric-class/

"Fortitude: +1 Dungeon Life, +2 Starting Health" For only one talent point.

Metronomy
01-21-2016, 03:20 PM
Classic case of people not understanding the situation imo and only hearing one word/phrase without realy considering the context and the follow-up. For me its clear that mercs are in the patch.

And actually im willing to take any bets against it (hit me up via pm or ingame)^^.

Xenavire
01-21-2016, 03:20 PM
That's kind of what I was thinking, but that wouldn't line up with what they said about mercs providing passives while they're still alive, unless I misunderstood that part.

Well if a merc dies while you are using it, it takes a strike and turns off the passive, so it would make sense still. But it does seem most likely that a merc has it's own strike. We will find out eventually.

Xenavire
01-21-2016, 03:21 PM
Classic case of people not understanding the situation imo and only hearing one word/phrase without realy considering the context and the follow-up. For me its clear that mercs are in the patch.

And actually im willing to take any bets against it (hit me up via pm or ingame)^^.

Sorry, I am not comfortable taking peoples money like that! I am absolutely sure that wording means no mercs, so it would hardly be sporting. :p

Metronomy
01-21-2016, 03:23 PM
thing is you have access to test-server...so now im confused..do you know or do you not ?...or is it under nda (which probably means you shouldnt comment about it in the first place) ? I gues you dont know for a fact but rely on corys wording in the interview (which would be the same as with me).

anyways..my offer stands...im talking ingame product of course...not real money

Rycajo
01-21-2016, 03:23 PM
Classic case of people not understanding the situation imo and only hearing one word/phrase without realy considering the context and the follow-up. For me its clear that mercs are in the patch.

And actually im willing to take any bets against it (hit me up via pm or ingame)^^.


Sorry, I am not comfortable taking peoples money like that! I am absolutely sure that wording means no mercs, so it would hardly be sporting. :p

Welp, looks like one of you will certainly be wrong. Who is more certain the other is absolutely wrong?

TOOT
01-21-2016, 03:34 PM
thing is you have access to test-server...so now im confused..do you know or do you not ?...or is it under nda (which probably means you shouldnt comment about it in the first place) ? I gues you dont know for a fact but rely on corys wording in the interview.

anyways..my offer stands...im talking ingame product of course...not real money

Yea it seems kinda weird.. (well, more like dumb) to offer to wager when there are surely people who know for certain who have been on whatever the latest build is on a test server.

Which also makes all the speculation pointless where people who presumably have access to certain things most people don't are chiming in on the conversation.


Welp, looks like one of you will certainly be wrong. Who is more certain the other is absolutely wrong?

It's pretty obvious which person likely has access to more info than the other individual.

Xenavire
01-21-2016, 03:34 PM
thing is you have access to test-server...so now im confused..do you know or do you not ?...or is it under nda (which probably means you shouldnt comment about it in the first place) ? I gues you dont know for a fact but rely on corys wording in the interview.

anyways..my offer stands...im talking ingame product of course...not real money

I always speak only using publicly known information, so regardless of whether I might be under any NDA or not is irrelevant to the discussion, as is whether or not I know anything with absolute certainty. However, I stand by what I have said - for the mere fact that Cory mentioned them not being in. I can't imagine they would neglect to include mercs in a build meant to build positive publicity. Mercs are very unique and would be a huge talking point, so thinking that HexEnt wouldn't wait to display a build with them included is just unfathomable.

Sure, it would be a curveball and all that, but seriously, they could generate way more hype with merc previews.

Metronomy
01-21-2016, 03:44 PM
Thing is that he spoke directly to the two moderaters...I understood it as following:

"We have many features that were planed during the kickstarter. One of those features are mercenaries." And then he said very calm and quick "that arent in the game at this point". To me he merely meant that mercs are not in the game right now (live version) but will be coming now. Why do I think that ? Because of the way he said it and what follows next. He then goes on to explain how dungeons will work. Not how dungeons might work at some point in the future but a basic introduction of how dungeons work. We know dungeons are in the patch.

Also we have skills that work with mercenaries. It would be very weird to have such skills and not have mercs imo.

Mostly though its how he explained dungeons. Mercs are a basic feature in the way he explained it. So much that we dont know how the life/attempts system could or would work without mercs.

That all being said its not conclusive. And the Fort Rumor Sneak Peek didnt show or mention mercs.

As a sidenote: Its not completely irrelevant wether you know or not. Cause when you know for a fact that mercs are in the game you do some serious mindunicornpoop here (which I would actually find funny). In case you know for a fact they are not in I would wonder if you should realy chime in (just a bit tricky but I understand your position in general). Thats why I assume you actually dont know for sure (but no need to comment on this last point cause thats obviously a dead end for you).

LNQ
01-21-2016, 03:49 PM
So much that we dont know how the life/attempts system could or would work without mercs.

Three strikes and you're out. That's been mentioned ages ago. It was said that a Merc gives an extra life, but the Mage article is the first time we hear that you can bring multiple mercs to a dungeon. How that works in terms of lives is unknown.

I'm going to try to restrain from posting on these speculation threads too much. The speculation of what's in and what's not yet in is becoming too wild. Too difficult to manage expectations, better just to let people overhype themselves than get frustrated myself. :)

Metronomy
01-21-2016, 03:51 PM
Granted...I dont know for sure. But for me its fun to take a position. If I'm wrong i can just be silent about it afterwards. But if I'm right I can go on and say "told you!". So..win-win^^

Silvanos
01-21-2016, 03:53 PM
Granted...I dont know for sure. But for me its fun to take a position. If I'm wrong i can just be silent about it afterwards. But if I'm right I can go on and say "told you!". So..win-win^^

I will bet you 1000 plat that Mercs are not in this patch. And I don't have any sort of test server access.

Metronomy
01-21-2016, 03:54 PM
I will bet you 1000 plat that Mercs are not in this patch. And I don't have any sort of test server access.

accepted...but it will be the only bet I will accept...starting to have doubts now (mostly because of xenavires position combined with his statement) but I still want to save some face^^

Xenavire
01-21-2016, 03:58 PM
Actually, I could swear we had heard about multiple mercs on a stream at some point (at least as an idea they were kicking around, I don't think it was solid info.) So not entirely new.

And Metronomy - I have always been an active member of the community, and I have been a QA volunteer for over a year - have I ever been known to clearly hint about things? No. We want cryptic pseudo-spoilers, we look to Colin. So you can trust that whatever I say, I say as a fan who is speculating just like anyone else. I shouldn't have to remind people that my title doesn't necessarily give me any access beyond what any other player has (barring that I clearly have a hand in tracking down bugs.)

Silvanos
01-21-2016, 04:01 PM
accepted...but it will be the only bet I will accept...starting to have doubts now (mostly because of xenavires position combined with his statement) but I still want to save some face^^

I figure this is win-win for me. If I'm right, I get 1000 plat. If I'm wrong, I get to play with mercs!

Metronomy
01-21-2016, 04:05 PM
Im not saying youre hinting on anything with informations we dont have. Thing is just that there are two options a) you know b) you do not. I dont know which is more likely. Under option a) and under the assumption mercs are in it would be very weird by you to take this position. So just from a pure likelyhoods calculation your statement makes it (at least for me) more likely that they are not in.

Again...I dont think you made any hinting comment or used any infos that are under NDA. Its just that when it comes to speculation your statements cant be seen as any other persons comment for the above meant reasoning. But honestly...lets stop this speculation nonsense^^. Im in 1k plat now...and I think there is a good chance im losing. But hey....its worth it for me^^.

Xenavire
01-21-2016, 04:12 PM
See, I kinda wish they had never given me this title, and just let me do their work anonymously, purely for this reason - I can't speculate freely or use the same reasoning I have always relied on, simply because my title colours everything I say. I am a glorified bug wrangler guys, I am not out to spoil your good times.

But I guess I have to live with it, so let me just reiterate - I don't care what reasons you might think of for mercs being in, I still don't think those reasons top the evidence of them not being in during the public preview. That free added hype would be too much to turn down.

Zophie
01-21-2016, 04:15 PM
Just a reminder, the press will be able to share details about what's in the press demo some time on Saturday (1/23), so there's a chance all this and more will be confirmed then... leave poor Xen alone now :p

fido_one
01-21-2016, 06:12 PM
Just a reminder, the press will be able to share details about what's in the press demo some time on Saturday (1/23), so there's a chance all this and more will be confirmed then... leave poor Xen alone now :p

My guess is embargo ends on Sat, but we won't see articles until later in the week - unless anyone has any idea how long the press has had a build to play with?

bootlace
01-21-2016, 06:18 PM
My guess is embargo ends on Sat, but we won't see articles until later in the week - unless anyone has any idea how long the press has had a build to play with?

From Twitter it seems like a lot of journalists were invited to the CZE offices to check it out in person today.

wolzarg
01-21-2016, 06:19 PM
Most press wouldn't bother with less than a few days margin since everyone wants to be done already when the embargo ends. So honestly there is no reason almost all articles wouldn't drop within hours of the embargo going away.

kingzzk
01-21-2016, 06:52 PM
How it will role play if mercs are not ready by launch:

Tooltip for merc - When you die, you push one of the 3 selected merc to take the killing blow, letting you live to fight another day!

sukebe
01-21-2016, 11:47 PM
Three strikes and you're out. That's been mentioned ages ago. It was said that a Merc gives an extra life, but the Mage article is the first time we hear that you can bring multiple mercs to a dungeon. How that works in terms of lives is unknown.

I'm going to try to restrain from posting on these speculation threads too much. The speculation of what's in and what's not yet in is becoming too wild. Too difficult to manage expectations, better just to let people overhype themselves than get frustrated myself. :)

we have actually known that everyone gets to bring 3 mercs with them into dungeons since gencon 2015.

Baigan
01-21-2016, 11:59 PM
we have actually known that everyone gets to bring 3 mercs with them into dungeons since gencon 2015.

Can corroborate, I heard something similar there as well. Though, with the caveat that leveling up your champion increases the number of mercs that can tag along.

Obviously that may have changed in the intervening months.

velk
01-22-2016, 04:39 AM
I always assumed the 'extra life' part of merc was that if you choose to use a merc and deck in a particular encounter and you lose, you lose the merc but not a life.

So you still have 3 lives with your character and deck, you can't just die and have a merc leap in to take the killing blow for you ;p

hex_colin
01-22-2016, 08:07 AM
I always assumed the 'extra life' part of merc was that if you choose to use a merc and deck in a particular encounter and you lose, you lose the merc but not a life.

So you still have 3 lives with your character and deck, you can't just die and have a merc leap in to take the killing blow for you ;p

This... :)

Svenn
01-22-2016, 08:10 AM
This... :)

If that's the case then I can't wait for hard modes. ;)

fido_one
01-22-2016, 12:01 PM
If that's the case then I can't wait for hard modes. ;)

I know they kind of said they were joking/talking about a perma-death, hard mode and it set some threads on fire, but I expect HexEnt to carve out really damn difficult dungeons before blanketing the game in an alternate mode. That'll hold me over for a while before they get the dev time to mess with any of that sort of stuff, if at all.

poizonous
01-22-2016, 12:38 PM
I know they kind of said they were joking/talking about a perma-death, hard mode and it set some threads on fire, but I expect HexEnt to carve out really damn difficult dungeons before blanketing the game in an alternate mode. That'll hold me over for a while before they get the dev time to mess with any of that sort of stuff, if at all.

I want to believe this but i can't because of how poorly the AI plays

Xenavire
01-22-2016, 12:47 PM
I want to believe this but i can't because of how poorly the AI plays

Well, do keep in mind the last patch was a big boost to the AI, if this patch brings another boost, then it actually might be a realistic scenario.

fido_one
01-22-2016, 12:56 PM
I want to believe this but i can't because of how poorly the AI plays

Well if that is your stance, than the game is going to stink for you regardless of hard mode or not. Ai is an evolving thing that will get better as the game moves forward. I'm happy with the Arena Ai, yes, it does stupid things, but it's better than any other card Ai system by a factor of a zillion (and it's getting better).

It's not like if the Ai isn't up to scratch it will never be up to scratch, they've got some hueristic stuff in there, and they'll be analyzing play so prepare it to get a lot better after patch 2/3/4/5, etc.

frychikn
01-22-2016, 12:57 PM
I hope we dont have to wait for a "hard mode" to have difficult dungeons. I would like to see some PVE equipment that actually goes for something.

fido_one
01-22-2016, 01:04 PM
I hope we dont have to wait for a "hard mode" to have difficult dungeons. I would like to see some PVE equipment that actually goes for something.

Given what they did in Arena, I'd be surprised if there are not some dungeons that are designed to be quite hard, though there is still hefty debate if the skill tree will be complete or not on the next patch. If the tree isn't complete, not sure how much thought they put into the initial dungeons for 1/3rd possible abilities for champions.

bootlace
01-22-2016, 01:05 PM
I'm just hoping they put at least one really mf'ing tough encounter at the end somewhere where it's going to take players some time to get over. I don't want anyone coming here 24 hours after launch and saying 'cleared everything, what's next...'.

Xenavire
01-22-2016, 01:12 PM
I'm just hoping they put at least one really mf'ing tough encounter at the end somewhere where it's going to take players some time to get over. I don't want anyone coming here 24 hours after launch and saying 'cleared everything, what's next...'.

Lets face it, we have a lot of skilled players - we are going to see someone beat all the content fast.

Whether or not they come complaining is a different matter entirely though.

fido_one
01-22-2016, 01:18 PM
Lets face it, we have a lot of skilled players - we are going to see someone beat all the content fast.

Whether or not they come complaining is a different matter entirely though.

They will come complaining, of course they will, there are a subset of people on the forums that want nothing but to poke holes in things, they'll speed run it and whine about it.

Of course, it could be that it is legitimately WAY too light (doubtful), but fine, whatever, new content will come. I mean the Arena kept me entertained for a good long while, more than a light RPG has, and I am assuming this patch is a wee bit bigger and has more things to tweak than the arena.

Silvanos
01-22-2016, 01:20 PM
I'm just hoping they put at least one really mf'ing tough encounter at the end somewhere where it's going to take players some time to get over. I don't want anyone coming here 24 hours after launch and saying 'cleared everything, what's next...'.

In a game with this much RNG, a "really hard" encounter is going to be just rolling the dice until you get the right draws (or the AI doesn't). Like if Xarlox charge power was [1], Put a terrorantula in your opponent's deck, then mill the top 5 cards. You'd sometimes just get blown out by bad RNG, and other times you'd miss it completely.

I'm also not real sure how they could put a PVE encounter in that is "hard" for people with a full playset, yet still possible for PVE players. I'm looking forward to seeing how close they get to this goal though, as I am not paid to solve these problems :-)

fido_one
01-22-2016, 01:25 PM
In a game with this much RNG, a "really hard" encounter is going to be just rolling the dice until you get the right draws (or the AI doesn't). Like if Xarlox charge power was [1], Put a terrorantula in your opponent's deck, then mill the top 5 cards. You'd sometimes just get blown out by bad RNG, and other times you'd miss it completely.

I'm also not real sure how they could put a PVE encounter in that is "hard" for people with a full playset, yet still possible for PVE players. I'm looking forward to seeing how close they get to this goal though, as I am not paid to solve these problems :-)

As you noted, there won't be consistently 'hard' encounters due to RNG. That's the nature of the game, so that's fine. I look no further than the arena, I can plop in whatever from my full collection, and I haven't gotten perfect runs too many times. I still sweat a bit when I see a boss or two, and if I hit Uranuuz again I may poop myself, that isn't just the rarity thing either, it's his difficulty (or poor bowel control, whatever).

nicosharp
01-22-2016, 01:27 PM
What's hard for one is easy for another. I also imagine some talent choices and class/race combos will have an easier go at some encounters other talent choices and class/race combos have a harder time with. At the end of the day RNG/luck/skill will play the largest factor.

Metronomy
01-22-2016, 01:39 PM
what we need is a hard mode...simple as that

Fred
01-22-2016, 01:42 PM
I'm also not real sure how they could put a PVE encounter in that is "hard" for people with a full playset, yet still possible for PVE players. I'm looking forward to seeing how close they get to this goal though, as I am not paid to solve these problems :-)

People with a full playset will not have access to all of it at low levels, so they can make the first few bosses not-too-hard and still be a challenge for everybody.

Bosses that are meant to be encountered at level 30 can be made as hard as they want, because whether you are a PvP or PvE player, once you reach level 30, you are no longer a "new player" and you probably have access to very powerful cards.

If a level 30 player takes his Vampire King/Angel of Dawn deck back to the first dungeon, he will obviously find it way too easy, but that's true for any RPG where a super-high level player goes back to the first dungeon, so that is a non issue.

fido_one
01-22-2016, 01:43 PM
what we need is a hard mode...simple as that

Are you serious? If it's a joke, I can't tell.

LNQ
01-22-2016, 01:43 PM
I'm hoping the encounters are more consistently hard than what we see in Frost Ring Arena with Xarlox. There's more room for making the encounters less RNG heavy as CZE can use restrictions and consecutive encounters where small setbacks that don't cause an outright loss have an effect on future matches.

Miwa
01-22-2016, 01:46 PM
I hope we dont have to wait for a "hard mode" to have difficult dungeons. I would like to see some PVE equipment that actually goes for something.

Unless the drop rate in super-small (like trying to get some stuff from the wheels :P), nothing should be that crazy in price, as we can all just farm the crap out of things. Though some stuff will be worthwhile early, like when arena was first out.

fido_one
01-22-2016, 01:54 PM
Unless the drop rate in super-small (like trying to get some stuff from the wheels :P), nothing should be that crazy in price, as we can all just farm the crap out of things. Though some stuff will be worthwhile early, like when arena was first out.

I think the Uranuuz loot would be going a heck of a lot higher than it is if they didn't have the spawn rate and reward bug for the first week or so when everyone was hitting the arena (Uranuuz was spawning a lot more frequently the first few days, and bloodleech and other Uranuuz equip was rewarded from all bosses).

LNQ
01-22-2016, 01:56 PM
Remember that with the Arena the drop rate for legendary equipment and cards was much higher than it is now. Likely the rate they drop now will be close to the rate legendaries drop in Campaign. If that's the case, then legendary drops will be worth quite a bit for quite a while.

fido_one
01-22-2016, 01:58 PM
Remember that with the Arena the drop rate for legendary equipment and cards was much higher than it is now. Likely the rate they drop now will be close to the rate legendaries drop in Campaign. If that's the case, then legendary drops will be worth quite a bit for quite a while.

They'll have super duper rare drops, simply to keep the 'free to play' people grinding. Something like a storm cloak (which yes, we got via PvP means); if you're playing the game and you know there is a 30 USD item floating out there anyone can grab, it'll keep you coming back. If HexEnt doesn't do that at some point (maybe after some balancing) it would be a missed opportunity.

Metronomy
01-22-2016, 01:58 PM
Are you serious? If it's a joke, I can't tell.

I'm serious. How the details would look like is a separate question but I advocate for separate difficulty levels just so we have actual content left even after a few days or weeks.

fido_one
01-22-2016, 02:00 PM
I'm serious. How the detail would look like is a separate question but I advocate for separate difficulty levels just so we have actual content left even after a few days or weeks.

Sorry mate, that makes absolutely zero sense to me. You haven't played the campaign, we all have zero idea how hard it is, so making a statement that the game must have a hard mode is completely bonkers. Make that statement after you've sorted through campaign that it isn't challenging enough in general, fine, make it now and you have absolutely nothing to stand on.

Anyways, and I really don't know this as I don't play MMOs that often, how many MMOs have a separate 'hard' mode? I thought the majority of them have some damn hard dungeons and let the masochists journey there on their own. I'm suspecting that is what Hex will be for a good long bit.

poizonous
01-22-2016, 02:06 PM
Most MMOs have dungeons and then at Max level they open up Mich harder difficulties of the same dungeons like heroic mode and hell mode in devilian with much harder enemies and Much better loot

nicosharp
01-22-2016, 02:14 PM
Most MMOs have dungeons and then at Max level they open up Mich harder difficulties of the same dungeons like heroic mode and hell mode in devilian with much harder enemies and Much better loot
There is already a plan to do this "unlock" and tie it to raids. I'm sure some things are in the pot, if not already in the game now to make the solo dungeon experience more challenging as well.

Metronomy
01-22-2016, 02:15 PM
basically all mmos have separate difficulty levels...having a special dungeon of extra difficulty is just one way to handle it...all im saying is that it probably would be a wise idea to have separate levels of difficulty...the concept is as old as video games are...do I realy need to explain why having separate difficulty levels can be an advantage ?

Zophie
01-22-2016, 02:16 PM
I'm fairly certain they've talked about having hard modes later on, but it's unlikely we'll see them until after all the initial classes/talents/levels/etc are released.

Miwa
01-22-2016, 02:58 PM
They'll have super duper rare drops, simply to keep the 'free to play' people grinding. Something like a storm cloak (which yes, we got via PvP means); if you're playing the game and you know there is a 30 USD item floating out there anyone can grab, it'll keep you coming back. If HexEnt doesn't do that at some point (maybe after some balancing) it would be a missed opportunity.
Convo packs came from arena also, I ground out 50 of them at least... :P