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View Full Version : Will passive skills be toggleable?



eimerian
01-21-2016, 11:52 PM
Let's take a look at one of the skills that were revealed for the human mage, shall we?

WORLDLY KNOWLEDGE, PASSIVE: At the start of your turn, if you have four or more actions in your graveyard, void all actions in your graveyard and gain 2 SP.
(This is from gameforge's site, not sure what a graveyard is supposed to be, they probably mean crypts)

I can foresee that there will be deck builds and strategies in the future for which you do not want this to go off every turn.
Think of a deck that allows you to play actions from the crypt, a deck that mills itself to find certain cards, a deck that gets some bonus from having many cards in the crypt, a crazy Dandelion arm guards combo deck or something like that. All actions in your crypt getting auto-voided without you having a say will f up your strategy.

My question is: Will we be able to toggle this and similar passive skills?

Oh and before you answer something silly like "Duh, if you don't like it, don't take it".
Maybe I want to take the skill now and create a deck where it fits nicely, but some months later I want to create a deck where this skill will be getting my way. Should choosing the wrong skill from the skill tree forever bar me from creating certain types of decks? Should I start a new non-"wordly magic" mage just for that reason? I don't think so.

WolfCrypt
01-21-2016, 11:59 PM
I'm going to say no and the class is built to use the talent if you pick it

Baigan
01-22-2016, 12:07 AM
I have no idea whether talents are toggleable, but I asked about reallocating skills at GenCon. The answer I got at the time was that it wasn't finalized but that they were leaning towards limited reallocation while leveling up with more opportunities to do so at max level (I think with the limitation that it would cost gold).

Maylick
01-22-2016, 12:16 AM
There certainly were some clues about rebuilding your character. Some gold sink or another method to reallocate talent points. But, yes, that system "wasn't finalized yet" when we heard about it.

WolfCrypt
01-22-2016, 12:36 AM
I'm not trying to be rude but why would you care? You choose what talents you get so if you don't like a passive you can avoid it entirely.

Khazrakh
01-22-2016, 12:48 AM
I'm not trying to be rude but why would you care? You choose what talents you get so if you don't like a passive you can avoid it entirely.

Just because you don't like a talent for a certain deck doesn't mean you don't like the talent for any given deck.
From a design point of view the talent is problematic if you can't toggle it off and there is a cost to learn and unlearn it because that way you could never build certain decks without having to pay upfront or losing the possibility to build certain other decks without having to pay again.

WolfCrypt
01-22-2016, 12:52 AM
Well... I've never considered that. Still I think passives like that are supposed to be niche. So you take it and live with it or you don't

funktion
01-22-2016, 01:05 AM
I assume you're gonna be able to respec... highly doubt that this will even be an issue.

Maylick
01-22-2016, 01:19 AM
I assume you're gonna be able to respec... highly doubt that this will even be an issue.

That's exactly my point. It's modern MMO after all.

eimerian
01-22-2016, 01:35 AM
So you take it and live with it or you don't
I tried to pre-emt this kind of response in my OP but I should have been more clear.
Maybe the skill is great for deck A and awful for deck B.
Should I buy a respec with gold every time I switch decks?
Should I take it and limit this one champion to one type of deck?

Also, since we don't know the rest of the skill tree it might be necessary to take worldly knowledge to unlock other important skills further up.

WolfCrypt
01-22-2016, 01:40 AM
I tried to pre-emt this kind of response in my OP but I should have been more clear.
Maybe the skill is great for deck A and awful for deck B.
Should I buy a respec with gold every time I switch decks?
Should I take it and limit this one champion to one type of deck?

Also, since we don't know the rest of the skill tree it might be necessary to take worldly knowledge to unlock other important skills further up.

'Important' is a very flowy term. a talent important to someoe might be useless to another. So I think they want you to pick talents then you get an ultimate end game talent based off what low talents you get that way it's a surprise and er other good stuff. They want you to choose what you get but not force you to keep it. So I think passives are permenent but you can respec so I bet their always on like any other passives in mmos.

wolzarg
01-22-2016, 04:20 AM
Resets "confirmed" was a button for it on stream.

DoctorJoe
01-22-2016, 04:46 AM
In a traditional MMO, I would equate your deck change scenario to the following example;

You want to focus on a different strategy, say maximizing burst damage over high sustainable damage and a bit of survivability. This can be accomplished to some effect by equipping different gear (cards and equipment in HEX) but to get the most out of this change, you are probably going to also have to change your talent spec, perhaps focusing on talents that unlock damage-dealing cooldowns and critical bonuses over smaller baseline damage boosts and escape cooldowns.

I think it's interesting design if it's a must and not a may, but we will have to see it in action to decide if it was a good one or not. PVE is much more subject to balancing changes that PVP. I would count on the devs keeping an eye on this and changing it if it feels too restrictive to them.

Kroan
01-22-2016, 05:13 AM
I mean. Most talents are great for deck A and useless for deck B. If you pick affinity: Mages and play no mages, you have wasted a talent point. If you want to play with both kind of strategies, create a second Mage I'd say :)

I'm pretty happy with these kind of talents, as they make choices really important.

Xenavire
01-22-2016, 06:42 AM
I mean. Most talents are great for deck A and useless for deck B. If you pick affinity: Mages and play no mages, you have wasted a talent point. If you want to play with both kind of strategies, create a second Mage I'd say :)

I'm pretty happy with these kind of talents, as they make choices really important.

Well if you have the patience to rebuild a lot, respecs let you have just the one mage.

On the other hand, the mages do seem to get varying racial spells, soooo....

Aradon
01-22-2016, 10:13 AM
I would certainly expect very easy respecs. The talent selection process is pretty much unique to every deck, and many of them are far too narrow to be broadly applicable to every deck. If you have to make choices for every deck all at once, you'd need *many* more than 10 character slots. It'd be like telling me that every time I wanted to play a different deck, I had to go into the deck manager and take apart my old deck to put together the new one.

My original expectations were that when I was building my deck, I'd select the associated champion, then pick talents for the deck with the available talent points. You'd use a Mage for many different mage-style decks, and just pick the aspects of the mage you want to use. If you couldn't respec, you'd have to roll a new mage if you ever wanted to play a different set of talents. Even if you can respect through a barrier, that's like telling a PvE player they have to pay a cost just to play a different deck. I anticipate having dozens, if not hundreds, of PvE decks, so it seems a little ridiculous to have to pay to vary it up some.

Since champion talents are so integral to the deck's identity, I honestly expect free respecs, and would be surprised if they didn't come to the same conclusion during testing.

bwarner
01-22-2016, 11:04 AM
I would be very surprised for free respecs, although I do expect respecs to be available in some fashion. Free means that your skills are just an extension of a particular deck, like Equipment, rather than defining characteristics of your RPG champion. I'm guessing that they want to differentiate more between equipment, which can be swapped at any time, and skills, which are intended to be more global, long-term choices. It makes your choices meaningful, knowing that you will help yourself create some kinds of decks, but hurt yourself when using different types of decks (even if that type of deck is the best suited for the challenge you are currently facing).

Aradon
01-22-2016, 06:00 PM
Based on the image with the Mage Talent Tree reveal, it looks like there's a reset button and a Gold display. I'm going to jump to a conclusion and say that resets will cost gold. I don't see any other limiting factor.

I *am* disappointed, but I guess I'll just have to deal with it. I definitely hope the gold cost is minimal, but I doubt it.

Zophie
01-22-2016, 06:25 PM
Based on the image with the Mage Talent Tree reveal, it looks like there's a reset button and a Gold display. I'm going to jump to a conclusion and say that resets will cost gold. I don't see any other limiting factor.

I *am* disappointed, but I guess I'll just have to deal with it. I definitely hope the gold cost is minimal, but I doubt it.

Well, we won't know for sure until we click on the reset button. If there is indeed a gold cost to respecing I would try to look at it more positively, any gold sink in the game helps eliminate gold in the economy and drive up the value of the gold that we earn. Sure it's a little annoying when you do have to spend it on the respec, but it's still good for the game and for the market value of the rest of your gold.