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Alamand
01-27-2016, 03:53 AM
I haven't finished all of the content on my first character, but I've finished probably 90%, and I was curious what other people thought about the encounter difficulty so far?

First off I'm discounting the piranhas since I'm pretty sure they're supposed to be that way, and they have a pretty clear weakness.

The first encounter I felt was a bit too much was the worms in the desert. I was a bit too YOLO and took all 60 gnomes at once so i'm not sure if the worms respawn between trips but I'm assuming they do.

So you have to either choose between taking a few and the mission becoming an incredibly grind, or taking a ton and be left banging your head against the encounters for way too long hoping for good rng. I was grinding it out during the lag so each attempt took upwards of 30 minutes even with a quick death so i might be a bit biased on this one.

It also seems like you're trapped in the quest once you start it so if your character can't beat the worms even without gnomes your only choice is to abandon the character, which doesn't seem like good design.

The most recent encounter I ran into, and the one that prompted me to make this thread, is killipede. The first version is already one of the hardest fights I've encountered, and completely invalidates a lot of cards with the permanent -1/-1 to all your troops, but the 2nd version is just ridiculous unless it gives uruunaz level rewards.

2 charges to create a speed killipede that voids at end of turn is bad enough, but it also has that 2 resource 2/1 lethal that will toxify you and discard your hand and all of its troops will double everytime they hit you. The only way I can see to beat it would be with armor, which seems like it would trivialize the encounter, which doesn't feel good from a class balance perspective, or to grind it out until the AI gets shard screwed.

I'm all for challenging encounters, but this one just seems straight up impossible for most classes.

Salverus
01-27-2016, 05:38 AM
yes, the worms in the desert are a disaster. Especially if you take all 60 at once, you then have a 150 card deck and you will get so many bad draws. And there is no way to change the amount anymore. So you are stuck with that character in the desert forever.

Edit; oh i found out that you can go back to the original guy and lower the amount of dudes to free, but that resets all nodes you had already cleared in the desert.
For now i just switched to my 2nd character. Shin'hare cant beat worms.

Xenavire
01-27-2016, 05:48 AM
Personally, I find the western path to be quite doable, even with 60 gnomes - difficult yes, but certainly passable.

Cainhu
01-27-2016, 05:55 AM
Personally, I find the western path to be quite doable, even with 60 gnomes - difficult yes, but certainly passable.

I guess it's highly depend on the champion / deck you have. Also, I guess you are a much more experienced player than most who started to play the campaign.

Salverus
01-27-2016, 05:57 AM
try it with modified shinhare starting deck and lev4 champion. 0% chance. I am 1/16 battles now and the 1 victory even got reset when i reduced the number of people i brought with me.

I think a good idea would be to let you leave the desert alone, so that you can level up your character and continue with the campaign. Then when you are a higher level, have better cards and more talent points you can return. They dont need to decrease the difficulty. But being stuck and unable to continue with campaign is annoying.

Rieper
01-27-2016, 06:18 AM
I just beat all those encounters today. I do think atleast killpede needs some looking at.

THe one with 60, i actually managed to beat fast after i adjusted my deck to super fast ruby rush. I had to restart a good amount of times. But in end it didnīt take long (even if i reset alot, because i lowered base shards and had 60 of those guys in, means bad hands will happen). Still rather go 60 and reset encounter often, then grind em over and over, because the reset option seems faster overall.

First killpede:This one i was ok with. My early decks had trouble with it, but i was running a good amount of 1/1 for ramp/cleric, after i changed over to ramp with swiftstrike, it worked out pretty well. But i will admit, i got advantage having huge amount PvP cards and stuff from kickstarter.

The 2nd killerpede: one i do not like at all. keeps up pressure with charge power and getting hit by toxic makes it almost impossible to win and He also has a card that does -1/-1 to all my troops(and gives charges!). WHich means he both counter stuff like shin' hare and slow big troops. Decks that canīt put out atleast a trop per turn to block, because you can get unlucky and have him do killpede 3 rounds in a row. add in his other lethal, flying, removal and even discard.
That encounter is insanely unfun to me. BIGGEST problem is, if he gets "play first" you might aswell quit. because that means killpede attack turn 2 (When you only had turn 1 and not always you got a 1 drop!!).

Now i did actually beat it with a shin' hare deck of all things. but was luck based. even though i had many closes runs and funny evovle use is what made it possible.(kept card out of range of that -1/-1)

Alamand
01-27-2016, 07:59 AM
Personally, I find the western path to be quite doable, even with 60 gnomes - difficult yes, but certainly passable.

I agree worms are possible if you have a solid PvP card foundation going into it and know what you're doing, but it's not fun at all, and no matter what it requires some rng just to not get screwed over.

So it's not fun, it's a timesink, and you can get trapped in there. In other words as it is now it's only a trap for new players while everyone else that knows better will avoid the quest because they know the reward isn't anywhere close to the effort required to obtain it and their time is far better spent elsewhere.

aatttt
01-27-2016, 08:00 AM
You cannot get trapped...
just go back to the gnomes and drop them all!

Alamand
01-27-2016, 08:13 AM
You cannot get trapped...
just go back to the gnomes and drop them all!

Oh, so that gets rid of the encounters completely? I was under the impression that would just make you do a 0 gnome run through the worms. Still, it's not incredibly obvious you can do that and the quest is still a waste of time until maybe when we get more levels available.

aatttt
01-27-2016, 08:15 AM
yes you can just backdraft then and go on with the campain

Angmar
01-27-2016, 09:16 AM
Just did the worms this morning. Did a trip with 20 gnomes, and then went back for a second trip of 40 gnomes - Western path both times. It wasn't very challenging, but I had a Brutal Commander (+equipments) in most of my starting hands.

Zurai
01-27-2016, 10:58 AM
I managed to beat the Wormoid Queen just now, though I did it with only 3 gnomes and it took some reloading to win the coin flip and get a good hand, plus a little luck in game to get my second Eternal Guardian in play before the two Firebreathing Wormoids surfaced and killed my first one.

Elwinz
01-27-2016, 10:53 PM
I heard of this famous kilipede and became dissapointed, that was really easy fight as a blood control and to be honest any controldeck like mono b b/d or b/s will wreck killlipede. Also Ninjaa trainning makes killlipede fight super easy. Queen is indeed hard.

Selanius
01-27-2016, 11:30 PM
I've played through the entire chapter 1 of campaign and I feel only the worms are "overtuned". Armies of Myth at high levels is very challenging, but not over-tuned due to its optional nature. I just wish it had better prizes. Worms should be turned down since it is a quest you get.

Edit: There might be one more set of encounters that are over-tuned... the starting ones! While I beat them no problem, they actually required me to think and play fairly well to win. This might be frustrating for new or bad players. I'd like the first encounters of the campaign to be a little easier to ensure people get hooked. Save the challenge for later.

Zurai
01-28-2016, 01:37 AM
Yeah, OK, Chained Goliath is not a fun encounter.

DML
01-28-2016, 03:11 AM
See!!!!! this is the shit i am talking about, right here. Fucking having to constantly concede just to get a favorable start is bullshit. Especially when the AI ALMOST NEVER MULLIGANS, EVER! This is just bad design. You don't win the coin flip and you lose? Silly as fuck. I really have had it with this new content. The AI decks are superior in every way to the starting decks. I feel bad for anyone who rolls Vennen, their starter is a shit pile and you have to play the same ruby rush deck 3 times IN THE FUCKING TUTORIAL. Spider Eggs are a slow as fuck mechanic, period. Devs need to take a closer look at some of the encounters.

I dare one of you fan boys to walk into a Magic Tournament, constructed format of course, with a new starter and a couple of boosters and tell me how you do. I fucking dare you.

Goliath764
01-28-2016, 03:53 AM
I feel bad for anyone who rolls Vennen, their starter is a shit pile and you have to play the same ruby rush deck 3 times IN THE FUCKING TUTORIAL. Spider Eggs are a slow as fuck mechanic, period. Devs need to take a closer look at some of the encounters.

For my first character, I am playing a Vennen Mage, with lowest HP among the three classes and most threatened by an aggro rush I would assume, and I beat the tutorial without losing once. It really isn't that hard because even though the cards in the Vennen starter might be bad in a typical player's eyes, they are very good against the orc decks in the tutorial so I am sure the dev did check the encounters. In the starter, we have the sexy Rigid Buffalo that will not make it to any PvP deck, with a 2-3 statline that can stop any 2-1 orcs by turn 3. Then, we have Neophyte of Xartox, with an 1-4 statline to stop any 3-1 orcs by turn 4 and can be tapped to heal the champion. Finally, we have the ever atrocious Atrophy that can outright kill any orc in the tutorial due to their X-1 statline. These 3 cards and the Vennen Mage spell of "-1 Power to a troop" are more than enough proof that the devs do look at the encounters.

Of course, you can always go for the "Well, I think you just got lucky on the tutorial segment" argument and I can't really deny that because there's a chance of that happening. But, between the very high possibility that the devs do make sure things are fair for new players(aside from the challenging part of the campaign) and the very low possibility of I got lucky, I would go for the devs.

Xenavire
01-28-2016, 04:48 AM
See!!!!! this is the shit i am talking about, right here. Fucking having to constantly concede just to get a favorable start is bullshit. Especially when the AI ALMOST NEVER MULLIGANS, EVER! This is just bad design. You don't win the coin flip and you lose? Silly as fuck. I really have had it with this new content. The AI decks are superior in every way to the starting decks. I feel bad for anyone who rolls Vennen, their starter is a shit pile and you have to play the same ruby rush deck 3 times IN THE FUCKING TUTORIAL. Spider Eggs are a slow as fuck mechanic, period. Devs need to take a closer look at some of the encounters.

I dare one of you fan boys to walk into a Magic Tournament, constructed format of course, with a new starter and a couple of boosters and tell me how you do. I fucking dare you.

It is what, the start of day 3 and people haven't discovered the optimal build for every race/class combo? What a shock.

These encounters are meant to be hard, and meant to be done with some trial and error. Btw, the wormoids are easiest on the west - it is simple to take 60 and blast through those two encounters. Then you can come back later for the queen.

DocX
01-28-2016, 11:15 AM
I had many, many, many failures trying to cart those 60 Gnomes across the desert with my Elf Cleric. I finally did it with Fist of Briggadoon, his chestplate (to be able to hand out Invincibility) and some ramp. Once I got wide enough to keep him from attacking in with his dudes, it was a waiting game. I've got the "auto Steadfast" talent, so I just waited for the buffs in my deck to show up (Wild Growth, Strength of the Redwood, etc) to get rid of the big worm with my buffed Fist.

I think I cycled through three or four different decks trying that and, in the end, was looking at my first few mulligans to see if I had the pieces, then conceding if I didn't. This also caused client issues so there was a fair amount of restarting as well. But eventually I beat the encounter.

Nowhere near ready to try Killipede or Piranha encounters yet. Need to get some more XP to get better class abilities.

Zurai
01-28-2016, 02:58 PM
Killipede was pretty easy for me once I figured out not to let the first Killipede hit me (to prevent the proliferation of Corpse Flies and Mosquitoes) and that the AI was reluctant to attack with its Killipedes if you had 5 power of blockers available. Chumping the first Killipede with any 1 or 2 drop and getting out a Wrathwood Master Moss just made it a waiting game. I haven't done the Piranhas yet, though, that's going to require a specialized deck.

Cainhu
02-01-2016, 03:11 AM
I'm very happy for you guys, who says encounters are easy with your $$$ PvP cards and KS exclusives or with pure luck. Very helpfull for everybody else.

I've done the gnomes quest with my Coyotle Warrior, and OMG how unfun was it. I avoided the queen entirely, but still... the gnomes in themselves pretty much nerfed my prophecy-heavy deck. Also, I see no story reason to have the gnomes in your deck, as they are clearly intended as non-combatans.

So far I only avoided one part of the map, the Killipedes, because I tried to play only with cards gained throught the campaign, and honestly... I have no way to defeat those encounter with this limitation.

Verdant
02-01-2016, 04:32 AM
Coyotle outs:

Diamond:
Repel - 750 gold
Howling Ambush - 2500 gold
Wind Whisperer - 240 gold
Meek - 450 gold
Pride's Fall - 100 gold

Wild:
Vine Trap - 50 gold / Trapper Grips equip - ? (no b/o at AH atm)

Sapphire:
Elusive Specter (Mischief gem) - comes from AZ1 packs
Morphology - comes from Shroomkin Haus
Throwback - 40 gold
Flock of Seagulls - 5000 gold


These are basic cards to deal with Killipedes. The list doesn't include prevention cards like Blinding Light or Shard Ward, countermagic cards, and bouncing cards.

Also, swiftstrikes.

Depending on your deck you may also consider Form the Ranks with equip for K1.

There are also rumors about cards that give armor to your champion, but I am to see one, so there's that.
It is by no means an easy encounter unless you run Necrotic/Dwarf, but a bit of luck it is still quite manageable.

Zurai
02-01-2016, 11:04 AM
The second Killipede encounter is quite easy if you take advantage of its AI.

Always have a chump blocker or removal spells for its first Killipede; you DO NOT want to be Toxified in this fight, it's basically a game over. After that point, work towards getting a 5 attack creature on board. The Killipede won't send its Killipedes to attack an opponent who has a 5 power creature because it doesn't realize its Killipedes get Swiftstrike when attacking and wouldn't die. It wrongly values its (one turn only) Killipedes above your (permanent) random 5 power creature. At that point you're more or less free to just build up your own board until you can kill it.

Seluhir
02-01-2016, 12:19 PM
The two problems with the worms are the bad messaging and the lack of interesting mechanics.

Nowhere does it SAY it's going to be a hard encounter, nowhere does it tell you you can abandon the quest, etc.

And... having EVERYTHING I do cause me to get overwhelmed by massive creatures - even playing resources - is not a fun mechanic to overcome. It's a frustrating nightmare of awful design.

It's just a very badly written and designed quest overall.

loopholist3
02-01-2016, 02:22 PM
I'm very happy for you guys, who says encounters are easy with your $$$ PvP cards and KS exclusives or with pure luck. Very helpfull for everybody else.

I've done the gnomes quest with my Coyotle Warrior, and OMG how unfun was it. I avoided the queen entirely, but still... the gnomes in themselves pretty much nerfed my prophecy-heavy deck. Also, I see no story reason to have the gnomes in your deck, as they are clearly intended as non-combatans.

So far I only avoided one part of the map, the Killipedes, because I tried to play only with cards gained throught the campaign, and honestly... I have no way to defeat those encounter with this limitation.

I am doing cory's challenge, so I am not using any cards I do not earn in PvE. I am playing a Coyotle Mage.

The gnome quest was super frustrating, as I could only handle 9 gnomes at a time, and it wasn't consistent. Adding a bunch of useless troops to your deck just wrecks prophecy. But I feel the gnomes being added to your deck is a fun and different mechanic, so when I first saw it I loved it.

The killipedes I didn't actually have a problem with. Besides "The Killipede" card, most of his troops have really low defense, so I just had to get anybody with swiftstrike out. For "The Killipede", I just chump blocked him with whatever card I could get my hands on. I think it took me 3 tries, but since it is outside of a dungeon, I really don't see that as an issue.

BenRGamer
02-01-2016, 03:06 PM
You cannot get trapped...
just go back to the gnomes and drop them all!

The game doesn't tell you that, though, that's bad design

Avaian
02-01-2016, 03:38 PM
The game doesn't tell you that, though, that's bad design

I consider it more of an oversight than bad design. Bad design would be not being able return the gnomes.

The worst part about the Graboids is that it is grindy, however it is not an essential quest and for people who don't want to do it they can skip it.

On a side not you should be able to turn in the quest and just say the gnomes were dead. It could greatly reduce the rewards and have you lose access to the Graboid encounters. The dialogue hinted at the being a possibility.

Xexist
02-01-2016, 03:39 PM
The game doesn't tell you that, though, that's bad design

I agree that part is not really intuitive.

BenRGamer
02-01-2016, 03:59 PM
I consider it more of an oversight than bad design. Bad design would be not being able return the gnomes.

The worst part about the Graboids is that it is grindy, however it is not an essential quest and for people who don't want to do it they can skip it.

On a side not you should be able to turn in the quest and just say the gnomes were dead. It could greatly reduce the rewards and have you lose access to the Graboid encounters. The dialogue hinted at the being a possibility.

That's just splitting hairs. It's an oversight that led to bad design. Could be worse, yeah, but that doesn't make it not bad design.

Zurai
02-02-2016, 02:24 PM
Nowhere does it SAY it's going to be a hard encounter

Bull. Read the text as you walk through the desert. Read what the gnomes tell you when you get to them. Read what the actual gnome cards do. Everything points to it being an extremely difficult encounter.

Ertzi
02-02-2016, 02:39 PM
The worst part about the Graboids is that it is grindy

The worst part about the Graboids is that it reminds me that this movie exists.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8w7rGb8VGc

Xexist
02-02-2016, 03:38 PM
The worst part about the Graboids is that it reminds me that this movie exists.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8w7rGb8VGc

First one with Mr Bacon was the best :)

jimmywolf
02-02-2016, 03:39 PM
i understand it a double edge sword, make it too easy an it get boring fast to hard an most say why bother. a easy fix would be too make a normal/hard mode, maybe even elite!

normal lower boss hp make their skills cost 1-2 more give them a slightly higher chance too play badly i read that the AI has a set % chance too play well or bad each hand an reduce reward slightly, ( not xp just cards ) if fear of it been too easy to farm.


hard mode same as it is now with small bonus too xp an drops too make it better it would allow people too burn threw normal for the story easy farming an allow those that want a harder game too have it their way.


even could add a elite mode double hp of all encounters increase % chance comp plays well to 100% or 90/95% an boost xp reward drops or just keep them the same an add a sleeves for beating X amount unique encounters one for beating half an one for beating all.




these thing would require no nerfing an would add more options too play how you want no matter skill level of player.

Ertzi
02-02-2016, 03:41 PM
First one with Mr Bacon was the best :)

Yes! That one I actually like. But this one has fart...rocket...monsters.

Okay, back on topic, sorry!

sukebe
02-02-2016, 03:53 PM
I agree worms are possible if you have a solid PvP card foundation going into it and know what you're doing, but it's not fun at all, and no matter what it requires some rng just to not get screwed over.

So it's not fun, it's a timesink, and you can get trapped in there. In other words as it is now it's only a trap for new players while everyone else that knows better will avoid the quest because they know the reward isn't anywhere close to the effort required to obtain it and their time is far better spent elsewhere.

I beat the worms (using the western path) using nothing but the starter we got + the campaign rewards. I didnt even have the adaptatrons the first time I did this. it is tough and it took several tries but it is 100% possible to do as are all the other enncounters in the game (though I admit I only beat the second kilipede the first time I played it because the 1 armor my necrotic cleric started with negated its charge power).

I understand not liking a several of the encounters mentioned in this thread but saying/implying that someone needs a even a reasonable collection of pvp cards to complete them is just plain wrong.