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View Full Version : Hex changed Promo rarities with no warning.



Sakra2010
01-27-2016, 06:04 PM
So I've been told by several people that this isn't a bug, even outside of deckbuilding, but Hex with this most recent patch changed the rarity of promo cards (such as Lyricist AA) to their non-promo counterparts (So in this case Lyricist AA would be a common).

This is an issue because on the AH the price floor is now set to that of its non-promo counterpart. So what was at first at least a 100 platinum card, is now worth significantly less.

This is very upsetting because me and several other people invested a lot of platinum during the holiday events, with the assumption that they would always have the 100 platinum price floor on the auction house, thus making them a safe buy, even at upwards of 80 platinum a piece for certain people or if they needed platinum to enter a draft etc. There was never any indicator or any mention that they wouldn't always be promo rarity, so the investment was a safe one.

I'm sorry this thread sounds like I'm whining, which I kind of am. I'm very frustrated. I've spent countless hours and put a lot of money into this game, and this change just feels like a stab in the back. I really don't like seeing hundreds of dollars worth of platinum go down the drain without any warning whatsoever. It sets a bad precedent, and I'll be more weary when spending money in Hex from now on.

Saying I can sell them at a different price and that the floor is just a suggestion doesn't work. Nobody is going to pay a hundred platinum for a bad AA Lyricist (yeah I'm trashing my own investment. lol) but they were an AA and a collectors item. That why people were buying them. With so many out there, the price is definitely going to tank (or at least dip to a level where a lot of us will lose money on our investment). People were buying them for gold at an exchange that was less than 100 platinum, but again, that's ignoring the fact that people were buying these promos for platinum

Maybe the people I've talked to about this are wrong and this is actually a bug. Which I really hope it is.

No matter what the case is, I hope you all are loving campaign, as well as the rest of the game, as much as I am.

A round of applause for the people at HXE for making a wonderful PvE experience. I can tell a lot of hard work was put into the campaign and the new interface. Bravo.

Thanks for reading.

-Andrew

Xenavire
01-27-2016, 06:06 PM
Look, if they sell below the price floor of 100 plat, they were never worth 100 plat.

Now nobody can be ripped off, done and dusted.

Svenn
01-27-2016, 06:06 PM
We were told that this was happening long ago. It's not a new thing.

Sakra2010
01-27-2016, 06:09 PM
Can you post the link where they said they were changing it? I didn't hear anything about it. If they did and I didn't hear anything about it then I am the most wrong and I apologize for my thread.

The people weren't being ripped off. They wanted an AA for having an AA. With that logic selling any AA is ripping someone off.

They were definitely worth 100 platinum. Things are worth what people were willing to pay for them. Simple economics. They'll be worth less because the rules of the economy has changed.

Xenavire
01-27-2016, 06:11 PM
Can you post the link where they said they were changing it? I didn't hear anything about it.

The people weren't being ripped off. They wanted an AA for having an AA. With that logic selling any AA is ripping someone off.

They were definitely worth 100 platinum. Things are worth what people were willing to pay for them. Simple economics. They'll be worth less because the rules of the economy has changed.

They were only willing to pay 100 because it was more convenient to lose some plat and not bother exchanging for gold. If they were/are WORTH 100p, then they will stay 100p.

(Hint: a price floor doesn't equate to simple economics.)

Zophie
01-27-2016, 06:13 PM
Just because the floor is gone doesn't make them less valuable, it just means their value isn't artificially inflated any longer. Good news is those promos aren't getting printed any longer, so just hang on to them, the price will go up over time as they become more and more rare. Some might take longer than others to go up in value, but they will.

Saeijou
01-27-2016, 06:14 PM
they were sold for less in gold... so even if you pay 100 plat for them (questioning your sense in economics), other people bought them for less...

now everyone can list it for the price they are worth... now just in addition in plat... whats you deal?

Sakra2010
01-27-2016, 06:18 PM
Something is worth what people are willing to pay is simple economics.

You'd be surprised how much convenience is worth to people.

Think of it this way, if Hex suddenly implemented that no card can be sold on the AH for more than 1000 platinum what do you think would happen? The economy would completely shift. Would some cards be worth more than 1000 platinum? Sure, but from there on out 1000 platinum would be the gold standard. Saying that a since a Master Moss is worth more than 1000 platinum doesn't matter, the economy changed, and so will the prices.

Renquist
01-27-2016, 06:20 PM
I think the real travesty here is the removal of the orange alternate art color denotation.

thegreybetween
01-27-2016, 06:23 PM
I think the real travesty here is the removal of the orange alternate art color denotation.

Agreed. RIP orange pips :(

Sakra2010
01-27-2016, 06:23 PM
Look guys I'm sorry I'm whining about this.
I've sold tens of thousands of platinum worth of holiday AAs before, so clearly people were buying them.
I'm just upset that what was perceived as sure investment just went down the drain. Tens of thousands of platinum essentially evaporated. Its frustrating.

Seriously though, if someone has that link to where they said they were doing this awhile back I'd love to see it. If anything it'll make me feel a little better that I was just stupid.

Svenn
01-27-2016, 06:26 PM
Look guys I'm sorry I'm whining about this.
I've sold tens of thousands of platinum worth of holiday AAs before, so clearly people were buying them.
I'm just upset that what was perceived as sure investment just went down the drain. Tens of thousands of platinum essentially evaporated. Its frustrating.

Seriously though, if someone has that link to where they said they were doing this awhile back I'd love to see it. If anything it'll make me feel a little better that I was just stupid.

I get that it sucks. They aren't completely worthless now though (and like Zophie said, they should go up over time).

As for the link... I don't know that it was "announced" anywhere, but it was mentioned off hand in various places that they were switching to a border instead of a color for rarity. I don't have a link handy.

hex_colin
01-27-2016, 06:28 PM
Have you actually tried to list them yet?

From my experience with EA/Stardust the system still recognizes them as Promo cards (even though they have Rarity colors now). If the AH sees them the same way, then you'll still have the 100 Platinum floor on the price.

Xenavire
01-27-2016, 06:28 PM
Something is worth what people are willing to pay is simple economics.

You'd be surprised how much convenience is worth to people.

Think of it this way, if Hex suddenly implemented that no card can be sold on the AH for more than 1000 platinum what do you think would happen? The economy would completely shift. Would some cards be worth more than 1000 platinum? Sure, but from there on out 1000 platinum would be the gold standard. Saying that a since a Master Moss is worth more than 1000 platinum doesn't matter, the economy changed, and so will the prices.

Of course the economy would shift based on price floors, but when something is sold for less than 50% of it's plat price in gold on a regular basis, you have to question the actual value (hint, despite people buying it at 100, the true value is nowhere near 100.)

And as far as I can see, you are the only one that seems to care about a few pennies (probably because anyone with sense has been hoarding those AA's for the coming years, where they would be worth more than 100p regardless of a price floor.)

If anything, you should be over the moon - vacuum up all the cheap deals now and cash in later.

So I say hooray for the lack of an artificial inflation in prices.


I think the real travesty here is the removal of the orange alternate art color denotation.

:( This so much.

Sakra2010
01-27-2016, 06:30 PM
Ahh. I see. Thanks for the info Svenn. I appreciate it.

I don't have the time to watch all the podcasts and videos and streams and such, so I just straight missed that they were doing that. Though I still probably would have assumed they would stay the promo rarity.

Oh well. What's done is done I guess. That's life!

Svenn
01-27-2016, 06:34 PM
Ahh. I see. Thanks for the info Svenn. I appreciate it.

I don't have the time to watch all the podcasts and videos and streams and such, so I just straight missed that they were doing that. Though I still probably would have assumed they would stay the promo rarity.

Oh well. What's done is done I guess. That's life!

Have you done as Colin suggested and tried to list it? They are still considered AAs so maybe they still have the 100p price floor?

Sakra2010
01-27-2016, 06:35 PM
When attempting to list they put them at the common price floor.

A few pennies adds up. I have been hording them for years down the road, but on several occasions (like on a set release) I've used them as a rainy day fund and dumped them when I needed to. But you're right. Adapting is what has to be done. I'm still unhappy about it though :P

regomar
01-27-2016, 06:59 PM
I think the real travesty here is the removal of the orange alternate art color denotation.

Agreed, this is really, REALLY annoying to me.

regomar
01-27-2016, 07:05 PM
I have to wonder if this is some kind of an accident? I mean, they still have a 'Promo' filter that does nothing now, they still have promo level dust for unlocks... I used to be able to use the filters to enjoy checking out my alt art. Now it's pretty much impossible. This is a huge regression in terms of functionality.

Yoss
01-27-2016, 07:22 PM
I have to wonder if this is some kind of an accident? I mean, they still have a 'Promo' filter that does nothing now, they still have promo level dust for unlocks... I used to be able to use the filters to enjoy checking out my alt art. Now it's pretty much impossible. This is a huge regression in terms of functionality.

There's a filter for Alternate Art in the AH. Is there not the same in Card Manager? It always seemed stupid to me to equate AA with rarity; they're two different traits and should work on totally separate filters in all search engines.

Kami
01-27-2016, 07:25 PM
My biggest issue with this change is that it's no longer obvious which is AA unless you've memorized the artwork for all cards.

Yoss
01-27-2016, 07:27 PM
My biggest issue with this change is that it's no longer obvious which is AA unless you've memorized the artwork for all cards.

I haven't looked, but I thought they were adding some frills around the icon of AA cards?

Svenn
01-27-2016, 07:28 PM
My biggest issue with this change is that it's no longer obvious which is AA unless you've memorized the artwork for all cards.

There's a border around the rarity that indicates AA now.

Zophie
01-27-2016, 07:29 PM
Border frills around rarity icon = promo
No frills around rarity icon = normal

Renquist
01-27-2016, 07:30 PM
There's a filter for Alternate Art in the AH. Is there not the same in Card Manager? It always seemed stupid to me to equate AA with rarity; they're two different traits and should work on totally separate filters in all search engines.

I agree with this

Renquist
01-27-2016, 07:31 PM
Border frills around rarity icon = promo
No frills around rarity icon = normal

you would never notice unless someone told you.

Half the point of AA's is for people to be like oh where did you get that....

edit - It's possible to notice, however it's easily overlooked.

regomar
01-27-2016, 07:41 PM
you would never notice unless someone told you.

Half the point of AA's is for people to be like oh where did you get that....

edit - It's possible to notice, however it's easily overlooked.

Seriously... I was actively looking before I read this thread and I didn't notice it at all...

Kami
01-27-2016, 08:24 PM
Seriously... I was actively looking before I read this thread and I didn't notice it at all...


you would never notice unless someone told you.

Half the point of AA's is for people to be like oh where did you get that....

edit - It's possible to notice, however it's easily overlooked.


Border frills around rarity icon = promo
No frills around rarity icon = normal

Totally didn't notice either.

magic_gazz
01-27-2016, 09:03 PM
Can you post the link where they said they were changing it? I didn't hear anything about it. If they did and I didn't hear anything about it then I am the most wrong and I apologize for my thread.

The people weren't being ripped off. They wanted an AA for having an AA. With that logic selling any AA is ripping someone off.

They were definitely worth 100 platinum. Things are worth what people were willing to pay for them. Simple economics. They'll be worth less because the rules of the economy has changed.

The only times I have seen these cards go for 100 plat is on the day they come out. After that pretty much no one is paying that price.

Also you said you have sold tens of thousands of plat worth of these promos. I think you may be exaggerating by a large margin here.

The reason these cards sell for so little all the time is because there are so many of them. If you invested in these at any price above 20 plat then I think that was a bad call on your part.

Rendakor
01-27-2016, 09:10 PM
Wait, you unlock AA EA with it's base rarity stardust now, not Promo dust?

WolfCrypt
01-27-2016, 09:25 PM
PVe cards has frills around rarity and cost so easy to distinguish between PVE and AA's.

funktion
01-27-2016, 09:54 PM
The only times I have seen these cards go for 100 plat is on the day they come out. After that pretty much no one is paying that price.

Also you said you have sold tens of thousands of plat worth of these promos. I think you may be exaggerating by a large margin here.

The reason these cards sell for so little all the time is because there are so many of them. If you invested in these at any price above 20 plat then I think that was a bad call on your part.

Pretty much what he said. The OP was speculating on these cards and even admits to it, the rug was not pulled out from under him, he already made by his own account tens of thousands of plat.

Speculating has risks, nuff said. Back to this specific situation, who knows it might not be a permanent thing, maybe they are intended to still be sold for the old "promo" floor price. It isn't clear afaik, but speculation is still speculation which is might point.

Gen91
01-27-2016, 10:09 PM
I feel somehow cheated by HXE here,
to got all my AAs by often traded 3 price floor rares for one AA,
which were about the same price that time
and now they are suddenly worth a lot less?!?

We were told about collections to maintain value. Yhea these were somehow artifical values for "common" AAs, but still they started with it, so they should have kept it, or make the info of changing it broadly available and not only to a few persons (probably the guy I trade a lot AAs with....).

Giving a few ppl infos of value changes in the future and not all of them and then these ppl using these infos to earn money is not without a reason punishable by law in the real world.


I'm very disappointed this moment,
even with PvE being awesome.

Sakra2010
01-27-2016, 10:20 PM
The only times I have seen these cards go for 100 plat is on the day they come out. After that pretty much no one is paying that price.

Also you said you have sold tens of thousands of plat worth of these promos. I think you may be exaggerating by a large margin here.
.

Lots of people pay that much after the event. They have since the very first event. If they didn't I wouldn't have invested so much.

Also while that number seems like an exaggeration it isn't. Remember it only takes selling 100 of them to make 10k platinum in sales (not profit).

Its not as far-fetched as it sounds like it is.

wolzarg
01-27-2016, 11:42 PM
I feel somehow cheated by HXE here,
to got all my AAs by often traded 3 price floor rares for one AA,
which were about the same price that time
and now they are suddenly worth a lot less?!?

We were told about collections to maintain value. Yhea these were somehow artifical values for "common" AAs, but still they started with it, so they should have kept it, or make the info of changing it broadly available and not only to a few persons (probably the guy I trade a lot AAs with....).

Giving a few ppl infos of value changes in the future and not all of them and then these ppl using these infos to earn money is not without a reason punishable by law in the real world.


I'm very disappointed this moment,
even with PvE being awesome.


Tl DR not staying informed = everyone else doing inside information trading to the stock market

theyeti101
01-27-2016, 11:51 PM
Just looking at the Hexprice data for Ethereal Caller and Lithe Lyricist AAs, these cards were certainly continuing to sell at the 100p price. It wasn't a ton of volume, but it still shows that the cards were selling for platinum, even well after the event ended, when the gold price was well below the platinum floor. 10k platinum sales seems pretty easy to hit, looking at that.

While we can't know for sure until the AH is unlocked, I would agree with those raising concern, if only because I prefer stability in the HEX economy. Speculation or not, there is an expectation among HEX players that their collections will hold value, and that this value will not be taken away by HEX. As a result of adjusting the price floors, whether it be on promos or any other rarity, those cards near the floor will be affected, and players with large stores of those cards (such as the OP) will have their collection's value changed. Given that, it makes little sense to change what has been a constant in the AH, especially without any reasonable warning. "Mentioned offhand" is not acceptable.

So, even though this isn't a huge issue as far as most people's collections are concerned (and admittedly may not be an issue at all, given that there is no word about it in the patch notes), it's hardly something I feel should be ignored as "sucks to be you, you took the risk in buying the cards". I doubt a similar change to price floors (or ceilings) for rare or legendary cards would be as well received.

Sakra2010
01-28-2016, 12:15 AM
Tl DR not staying informed = everyone else doing inside information trading to the stock market

Can you show me a link where they said they would change this stuff (Promo rarity and price floor)? Everyone keeps saying it exists, but this thread is still the first I've been hearing about it.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I'd prefer to see it myself.

hex_colin
01-28-2016, 12:23 AM
Wait, you unlock AA EA with it's base rarity stardust now, not Promo dust?

You still use Promo dust, but the UI makes it look like you can use the Rarity dust. In addition, you need the Rarity dust and a Promo dust to unlock them even though only the Promo dust gets consumed. It needs a bit of work - I put in a couple of bug reports.

Renquist
01-28-2016, 05:53 AM
Can you show me a link where they said they would change this stuff (Promo rarity and price floor)? Everyone keeps saying it exists, but this thread is still the first I've been hearing about it.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I'd prefer to see it myself.

I don't think that link exists...

I know where it was speculated that the orange aa denotation was going to be removed, however no one was discussing the impact it would have on the AH.

ShadowRealm
01-28-2016, 07:46 AM
I just contacted support because of this kind of bug / confusion. I wanted to EA some KS and Convocation cards (non AAs, checked it before Campaign patch, like Cloud Queen or Prospero) and the system used my Promo Stardust instead of the normal rarity ones!
They shouldn't be considered AA as they do not exist in another version (I expect this to be the case with cards like Collector's AAs or even Ozawa Convocation, but not the other ones).

Tazelbain
01-28-2016, 07:52 AM
Cards should be able to hold value but card floors are not the way to do it.

Svenn
01-28-2016, 07:52 AM
I just contacted support because of this kind of bug / confusion. I wanted to EA some KS and Convocation cards (non AAs, checked it before Campaign patch, like Cloud Queen or Prospero) and the system used my Promo Stardust instead of the normal rarity ones!
They shouldn't be considered AA as they do not exist in another version (I expect this to be the case with cards like Collector's AAs or even Ozawa Convocation, but not the other ones).

They are Promo cards. It's called Promo Stardust (not AA Stardust). I dunno, makes sense to me?

Xenavire
01-28-2016, 07:52 AM
The Promo stardust is for promo cards - not AA's alone, or it would have a different name.

ShadowRealm
01-28-2016, 07:55 AM
Then how do we know they are promo or not? Before we had the orange symbol for promo, and the cards I EA'd were not "Orange symbol" cards...

TJTaylor
01-28-2016, 07:56 AM
Prospero and Cloud Queen are promo cards so it would stand to reason you would need promo stardust to EA them. All AAs are promos but not all promos are AAs.

Xenavire
01-28-2016, 07:58 AM
Promos have the special border around the faction and set symbols.

ShadowRealm
01-28-2016, 08:01 AM
OK I can see your point but noticed the error too late. I still think we need a visual sign to determine wether a card is a Promo or not though.
Old system made me do a mistake and is confusing.

Xenavire
01-28-2016, 08:03 AM
I do think that it should have an orange symbol, with a coloured ring for rarity.

HellFro
01-28-2016, 08:20 AM
I think the confusion comes from the too subtle promo border. Promo cards should be a big wtf moment when you lay it on the board. I think an easy fix would be to change the coloring on the border from bronze to gold, silver if you don't want to be too ostentatious. Anything to make it clearly stand out like orange pips did.

Especially with new users jumping on, you want them to instinctively want the promo cards for no other reason than it's so shiny.

Mike411
01-28-2016, 08:25 AM
I think the confusion comes from the too subtle promo border. Promo cards should be a big wtf moment when you lay it on the board. I think an easy fix would be to change the coloring on the border from bronze to gold, silver if you don't want to be too ostentatious. Anything to make it clearly stand out like orange pips did.

Especially with new users jumping on, you want them to instinctively want the promo cards for no other reason than it's so shiny.

Yeah it needs to stand out more... I had a 'wtf' moment when I checked my cards and couldn't tell it was a promo card - until I saw the forums where someone pointed out that the difference near the rarity symbol.

theyeti101
01-28-2016, 09:12 AM
Well, now that the AH is open, I can confirm that the platinum price floor for promo cards did change.

regomar
01-28-2016, 09:48 AM
I really, REALLY want those orange symbols back :(

Xenavire
01-28-2016, 10:05 AM
I really, REALLY want those orange symbols back :(

Can't be repeated enough.

Rendakor
01-28-2016, 10:30 AM
You still use Promo dust, but the UI makes it look like you can use the Rarity dust. In addition, you need the Rarity dust and a Promo dust to unlock them even though only the Promo dust gets consumed. It needs a bit of work - I put in a couple of bug reports.
Ahh ok, thanks.

Renquist
01-28-2016, 10:55 AM
Can't be repeated enough.

At least something more then what's currently in place.

Zophie
01-28-2016, 11:55 AM
I don't think they need to switch back to orange, I like the intention of the change, but the implementation could be better. I like the idea of having a different color ring around the normal color rarity icon to differentiate promos, instead of the frills. That seems like a decent solution, as long as they can pick a decent color for the ring that contrasts well with all the different rarity colors.

funktion
01-28-2016, 11:58 AM
Aye seems to me that the intention is for clarity when it comes to shard alignments but the rest (ah floor & promo dust) seem to be issues. I also like the idea of the frill being more prominent, especially when not zoomed in.

knightofeffect
01-28-2016, 01:25 PM
I'm not sure why HXE decided to half-implement a change that no one was asking for. I feel like I should like the new AA boarder, but I don't. I'm not sure why it looks and feels so lame, but it does. I acknowledge that completely changing the rarity to the orange pip probably wasn't the correct solution either, but it sure did seem a lot better somehow....

Also to the guy that got a promo stardust consumed by a cloud queen. Was that not a green symbol before the last patch? Wouldn't it have consumed an uncommon stardust? I feel like I did this very example previously.

I think they should create a shiny, gem-like animation for the rarity if it is promo, same color just animated. It would be easy to implement, bad unicornpooping ass, and obviously stick out to anyone. PLEASE?!?!?!

Xenavire
01-28-2016, 03:20 PM
At this point I either want the orange symbol back, or to drop promo stardust permanently (as the sheer fact that certain old promos could in the past be upgraded without promo dust now creates an inequality as it needs one now, and it takes a SIGNIFICANT investment just for a few shiny pieces of art - I have felt from the get-go that promo dust was unnecessarily expensive, and now it feels flat-out unnecessary.)

Legendary dust is rare and expensive enough to be a strong sink, so I think it should be the end of the rarity chain.

Baigan
01-28-2016, 03:41 PM
I don't understand this thread.

OP points out that HexE instituted a change which directly affected the real world value of cards sold on the market and gets shut down, but somehow aesthetic changes that have no effect on anything are more important and worthy of complaint?

It doesn't matter how much the platinum price floor overvalued the common AAs. The fact remains that the platinum floor was official policy and we should be able to rely on official policy to make informed decisions about investments. (And no, it's not speculation—disregarding variance in the value of plat, there is no risk of loss if you're purchasing cards at what can reasonably be expected to be an officially instituted market floor.)

Daer
01-28-2016, 03:51 PM
I agree with Baigan, bring back the orange symbol.

Emrys
01-28-2016, 03:52 PM
I'm not sure why HXE decided to half-implement a change that no one was asking for. I feel like I should like the new AA boarder, but I don't. I'm not sure why it looks and feels so lame, but it does. I acknowledge that completely changing the rarity to the orange pip probably wasn't the correct solution either, but it sure did seem a lot better somehow....

Also to the guy that got a promo stardust consumed by a cloud queen. Was that not a green symbol before the last patch? Wouldn't it have consumed an uncommon stardust? I feel like I did this very example previously.

I think they should create a shiny, gem-like animation for the rarity if it is promo, same color just animated. It would be easy to implement, bad unicornpooping ass, and obviously stick out to anyone. PLEASE?!?!?!

My guess is due to the PVE rarity restrictions as you level up ( Only being able to have 3 copies of a common wild shard card, for example ) meant that the Promo cards had to be more clear as to what their original rarity was. If I had a promotional Burn for example, it's a common but would be indicated as Orange.

I think there is a better way to visually indicate this on the card, because at first I didn't notice the frills either.

As for the price, I don't think I'm understanding why a lack of the Orange Dot means the price went down. Is it because people don't know it's AA or Promotional now? Changing the design to be more clear would help with that right?

Rendakor
01-28-2016, 04:02 PM
As for the price, I don't think I'm understanding why a lack of the Orange Dot means the price went down. Is it because people don't know it's AA or Promotional now? Changing the design to be more clear would help with that right?
Every card has a price floor set based on its rarity; a minimum that it can be listed on the AH for. Promo had the highest, at 100p minimum; now that Promos are listed based on the original card's rarity, Promo commons can be listed for 1p (I think, I don't sell commons for plat so I'm not sure what the actual # is).

Xenavire
01-28-2016, 04:23 PM
I don't understand this thread.

OP points out that HexE instituted a change which directly affected the real world value of cards sold on the market and gets shut down, but somehow aesthetic changes that have no effect on anything are more important and worthy of complaint?

It doesn't matter how much the platinum price floor overvalued the common AAs. The fact remains that the platinum floor was official policy and we should be able to rely on official policy to make informed decisions about investments. (And no, it's not speculationódisregarding variance in the value of plat, there is no risk of loss if you're purchasing cards at what can reasonably be expected to be an officially instituted market floor.)

I can't say this for certain, but I thought it was heavily implied that the floors would be altered or removed in the distant future (old info however, and may mot have been explicitly stated.)

The promo floor was ridiculous though and anyone saying otherwise doesn't understand why having a system that reflects the true value of a card is important.

Baigan
01-28-2016, 05:04 PM
I can't say this for certain, but I thought it was heavily implied that the floors would be altered or removed in the distant future (old info however, and may mot have been explicitly stated.)

The promo floor was ridiculous though and anyone saying otherwise doesn't understand why having a system that reflects the true value of a card is important.

I'm not advocating for the 100p price point in particular. Yeah, there was a disparity between the gold and plat values and I don't necessarily mind them changing things; I just think that ought to be clearly announced ahead of time.

You might be right about the implication, but I don't recall hearing it and it certainly wasn't said recently. I know they spoiled the AA visual change before the patch, but it's not hard to imagine that they could have changed the aesthetic display without affecting the plat floor. In fact, I thought that was the intent. It's not obvious to me that the plat floor change isn't actually a bug, though it was dismissed earlier.

Zophie
01-28-2016, 05:15 PM
I agree with Baigan, bring back the orange symbol.

I disagree with Daer, please don't bring back the orange symbol.

I rather like the fact that the normal rarity colors are maintained on the promo versions of cards, it helps inform where the base card power and rarity itself sits in the overall set balance, which is especially important in the PVE campaign. A better solution would be to indicate promos with a little something extra beyond the subtle frills around the icon that they changed it to. It's a step in the right direction, just needs to be a bit more noticeable.

Or hey, what is that symbol on the opposite side of the rarity used for (over on the left)? Is it always grey? Could they use that for something like this or is that a placeholder for something else?

http://i.imgur.com/vh5vZAC.png

theyeti101
01-28-2016, 05:17 PM
I can't say this for certain, but I thought it was heavily implied that the floors would be altered or removed in the distant future (old info however, and may mot have been explicitly stated.)

The promo floor was ridiculous though and anyone saying otherwise doesn't understand why having a system that reflects the true value of a card is important.

Not once has anyone in this thread been able to link to where it was "heavily implied" that this change would be made. Given that, I fail to see how anyone should have been taking that into regard when buying or speculating on any card.

As for your second sentence, the point remains that the platinum floor was official policy. As a result of the change in policy, the real world value of cards has changed. This should be upsetting people. It just happens that not many people seem to be affected...

The other thing is that the system already did have a way to reflect the true value of the card. Anyone could, at any time, list an AA for any value in gold. In the case of many of these AAs, this was your "true" market price, whether it be low (a couple thousand for, say Blessing of Unicorns) or higher (nearly 10k for some of the holiday AAs). The existence of the platinum floor didn't affect that. So, the removal of this floor didn't bring about any "gain" in the system, in that regard. What it did do is add risk to the value of these AAs for anyone speculating. We've already established that these AAs were selling at 100 plat, albeit slowly. Whether that was simply because people found it more convenient to buy in platinum, or for some other reason, I'm not sure, but they were selling. Really, the only real effects of this change were to screw over speculators such as OP, and to slightly diminish the utility of gold.

So, as Baigan has pointed out, OP was able to make a relatively risk-free investment on these AAs. That investment was made with the expectation that official policy would not change, given the well-stated policy of the devs to not mess with this sort of thing, and to allow people's collections to maintain value. Regardless of the effectiveness or practicality of these price floors, it was still official policy. That should be reliable. It apparently is not.

Baigan
01-28-2016, 05:18 PM
Zophie, the pip on the left of the card is used to indicate alliance (Ardent, Underworld, Neutral).

Zophie
01-28-2016, 05:22 PM
Zophie, the pip on the left of the card is used to indicate alliance (Ardent, Underworld, Neutral).

OH YEAH that's right! Thanks for reminding me :)

So that being said, could they still stick a color in the background of that ardent/underworld symbol on promo cards, such as the orange pip color you guys like?

superdax
01-28-2016, 05:23 PM
I disagree with Daer, please don't bring back the orange symbol.

I rather like the fact that the normal rarity colors are maintained on the promo versions of cards, it helps inform where the base card power and rarity itself sits in the overall set balance, which is especially important in the PVE campaign. A better solution would be to indicate promos with a little something extra beyond the subtle frills around the icon that they changed it to. It's a step in the right direction, just needs to be a bit more noticeable.

Or hey, what is that symbol on the opposite side of the rarity used for (over on the left)? Is it always grey? Could they use that for something like this or is that a placeholder for something else?

http://i.imgur.com/vh5vZAC.png

The icon is for faction it's not on all the cards but it does identify underworld or Ardent

I too want a different color for aa put purple gold yellow anything that makes it special. You have to make people want them. Now it's ok

Xenavire
01-28-2016, 05:31 PM
My point, theyeti101, was that at some point in discussions of price floors, the idea came up that they would potentially change. While I don't think anything was official at the time, it has clearly happened now, and I suspect this has been an idea bouncing around for a good while.

In short, you are assuming things about their 'policies', where in fact you could be completely wrong. And the fact is it has changed, so either it is a bug (certainly possible, but it seems a little unlikely), or it has been changed for a reason. Let's just see if they address the issue before going any further - there is a report in the bug forum, we will get an answer eventually.

magic_gazz
01-28-2016, 05:36 PM
Not once has anyone in this thread been able to link to where it was "heavily implied" that this change would be made. Given that, I fail to see how anyone should have been taking that into regard when buying or speculating on any card.

As for your second sentence, the point remains that the platinum floor was official policy. As a result of the change in policy, the real world value of cards has changed. This should be upsetting people. It just happens that not many people seem to be affected...

The other thing is that the system already did have a way to reflect the true value of the card. Anyone could, at any time, list an AA for any value in gold. In the case of many of these AAs, this was your "true" market price, whether it be low (a couple thousand for, say Blessing of Unicorns) or higher (nearly 10k for some of the holiday AAs). The existence of the platinum floor didn't affect that. So, the removal of this floor didn't bring about any "gain" in the system, in that regard. What it did do is add risk to the value of these AAs for anyone speculating. We've already established that these AAs were selling at 100 plat, albeit slowly. Whether that was simply because people found it more convenient to buy in platinum, or for some other reason, I'm not sure, but they were selling. Really, the only real effects of this change were to screw over speculators such as OP, and to slightly diminish the utility of gold.

So, as Baigan has pointed out, OP was able to make a relatively risk-free investment on these AAs. That investment was made with the expectation that official policy would not change, given the well-stated policy of the devs to not mess with this sort of thing, and to allow people's collections to maintain value. Regardless of the effectiveness or practicality of these price floors, it was still official policy. That should be reliable. It apparently is not.

Speculating is just a fancy word for gambling. Sometimes it doesn't pay off and the only person to blame is the one doing the gambling.

Also if someone was buying the AA cards at less than the plat floor, then that is proof that the plat floor is not the value of the card and therefore the plat floor was pointless.

theyeti101
01-28-2016, 05:39 PM
@Xenavire, My point is that there should be no assumption. There are certainly reasons behind a change, but anything with this kind of potential economic impact (even if it is only going to affect a few people) shouldn't be changed without warning, or at least some sort of update explaining why. If it is a bug, then it's a non-issue, as nothing has been changed. If it isn't, though, then it's a decision that, at the very least, was communicated poorly.

theyeti101
01-28-2016, 05:42 PM
Speculating is just a fancy word for gambling. Sometimes it doesn't pay off and the only person to blame is the one doing the gambling.

Also if someone was buying the AA cards at less than the plat floor, then that is proof that the plat floor is not the value of the card and therefore the plat floor was pointless.

If there is a price floor, there isn't that "speculation" risk. OP was making his decision based on the idea that a 100p price floor would stay in place, and thus be the minimum value of his item. Good decision or bad, that part of the equation has now been changed thanks to a result in policy, not as a result in the change of card value. The plat floor likely was pointless. That doesn't mean it should have been erased out of the blue.

magic_gazz
01-28-2016, 06:33 PM
If there is a price floor, there isn't that "speculation" risk. OP was making his decision based on the idea that a 100p price floor would stay in place, and thus be the minimum value of his item. Good decision or bad, that part of the equation has now been changed thanks to a result in policy, not as a result in the change of card value. The plat floor likely was pointless. That doesn't mean it should have been erased out of the blue.

Wrong.

The price floor is not the value of the item. This is where people are getting confused.

The price floor is the minimum price an item can be listed on the AH. Nothing more. Nothing at all to do with value.

theyeti101
01-28-2016, 06:36 PM
Wrong.

The price floor is not the value of the item. This is where people are getting confused.

The price floor is the minimum price an item can be listed on the AH. Nothing more. Nothing at all to do with value.

If it sells at the price floor, that is it's value. The cards were selling at the price floor. The platinum value was at the price floor. The assumption now is that the platinum value will now decrease. There's no confusion there - that is the exact reason why it seems OP made this post.

Xenavire
01-28-2016, 07:42 PM
If it sells at the price floor, that is it's value. The cards were selling at the price floor. The platinum value was at the price floor. The assumption now is that the platinum value will now decrease. There's no confusion there - that is the exact reason why it seems OP made this post.

Actually, the lowest viable (repeatable) price is the true market value. The price floor was just really good at creating aberrations in sales.

Just because something can sell higher doesn't instantly mean it is worth that. I could start selling commons for 100 plat, and some people may even buy a few, but the true value of a common is faaaaaaar less.

the_artic_one
01-28-2016, 10:35 PM
Not once has anyone in this thread been able to link to where it was "heavily implied" that this change would be made. Given that, I fail to see how anyone should have been taking that into regard when buying or speculating on any card.
Here are the links:
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=46378&page=3&p=533657#post533657
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=37964&p=409815#post409815

Gen91
01-28-2016, 11:05 PM
Here are the links:
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=46378&page=3&p=533657#post533657
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=37964&p=409815#post409815

These links only talk about changing the rarity colour of AAs/Promos, but not a thing about the price floor changes!

theyeti101
01-28-2016, 11:11 PM
Here are the links:
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=46378&page=3&p=533657#post533657
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=37964&p=409815#post409815

Thanks for finding this! It seems that they have now instituted Chark's intention for AAs, as designed in the second post. Glad someone was able to finally find some of these statements.

Although, if my interpretation of this is correct, this means that they have effectively removed "Promo" as a card rarity, given that all Promo rarity cards were Alternate Art cards. With regards to the OP's original complaint of price floor changes, I'm not sure that bit was communicated all that well, given that they are still flagged as AAs, and so are effectively still "promo" versions. (If there is a post explaining that, feel free to correct me there.)

To expand on that a bit, since the "Promo" rarity consisted entirely of AAs, the promo price floor was effectively the same as a price floor for alternate art cards. Though it was communicated that the underlying rarity would be more apparent, it was also stated that they would still flagged as AA. From this, I could see how one would draw the conclusion that the AA price floor would still be in effect. Their intention may well have been to remove it, but the topic doesn't seem to have come up, at least not in those posts. So, as far as economic complaints go, OP may still have a point. I guess it depends on how you interpret that second post.

Sakra2010
01-28-2016, 11:23 PM
On the Haunted Harvest thread they said they would change the colors of the Promos. To me, this is saying these cards will still be promos, they'll just have a different color. From this alone I'm assuming that even though the card will change rarity color, they will still be considered promos - thus stay on the price floor, since neither of the links say anything about a price floor change. Obviously my interpretation could be incorrect, and I accept that.

Not sure if it's worth noting, but the Haunted Harvest thread came over a year after the VIP thread.

Either way whatever happens, happens at this point. Thanks for the links! I appreciate them a lot :)

Harwinne
01-29-2016, 05:11 PM
This may seem like a minor thing and probably brought up a thousand times already in the last week but... there was just some special flair about having that orange color over the set symbols on all alternate art cards. It made them special... like this was a unique rarity. Now.. they just feel kind of like... bleh.

Any chance we can go back to that cool orange set symbol?

Yoss
01-29-2016, 08:44 PM
I like the new way. There's a whole thread already talking about this, by the way.

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=47382

Gen91
01-30-2016, 03:11 PM
I like the new way. There's a whole thread already talking about this, by the way.

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=47382

You posted a link of this thread...

This is the original thread, so pointless...

Zophie
01-30-2016, 03:44 PM
You posted a link of this thread...

This is the original thread, so pointless...

Actually when he posted the link it was a reply to another new thread that Harwinne made, then a mod merged it with the original thread because no need to have two separate threads about the same thing.

Khazrakh
02-21-2016, 10:19 PM
Just realized this morning that the price floor for promo cards at 100 plat is in again, didn't find anything about it in the patch notes though.
Looks like it was unintentional after all ;)

Kurposkano
02-21-2016, 10:58 PM
Just realized this morning that the price floor for promo cards at 100 plat is in again, didn't find anything about it in the patch notes though.
Looks like it was unintentional after all ;)

Or it was intentional and what you are seeing is a bug. Quick! Sell Sell Sell!

Sakra2010
02-22-2016, 06:14 PM
Glad the issue was noticed and taken care of. Thanks Hex!

Timlagor
02-24-2016, 08:23 AM
I do find the slight border difference for AAs to be inadequate. I recognise many AAs from the art itself but I'd have to zoom in to be able to tell from the border.

I'm quite happy for them not to have their own rarity colour any more but it would be nice if they were more obviously distinctive.

hex_colin
02-24-2016, 08:33 AM
I'm quite happy for them not to have their own rarity colour any more but it would be nice if they were more obviously distinctive.

To be fair... THEY HAVE DIFFERENT ART! That makes them pretty distinctive... ;)

ossuary
02-24-2016, 08:49 AM
Yes, but if it's not a card you see often, it can be confusing. I agree that the border flair for AAs is not sufficient with the icon no longer being a unique color. I'd like to see them make it a little more visible while zoomed out than it currently is.

superdax
02-24-2016, 08:51 AM
To be fair... THEY HAVE DIFFERENT ART! That makes them pretty distinctive... ;)

Yes they do but alot of people might not even know. Imagine a new player that sees that you have a Vampire princess with an ORANGE logo..he says WOW .. what's that color.. then he gets interested in AA :) Cuz they notice it fast. I could accept that AA's are foil also :) that too is cool ..

Reeplay
02-24-2016, 09:07 AM
I do think it's a shame the colour change happened but I understand why they chose. I think it would be nice if a new colour was made for the AA's. Maybe purple since that's the first colour I could think of that wasn't currently in use. AA's feel less special to me with the change in colour honestly and it would be nice to have it back

Clawdius
02-24-2016, 09:09 AM
To be fair... THEY HAVE DIFFERENT ART! That makes them pretty distinctive... ;)

To be fair, our card layout pages haven't been updated since the Kickstarter.
https://www.hextcg.com/card-overview/
https://en.hex.gameforge.com/cards/layout.html

It seems like PVE flairs, AA flairs, and whatever else could potentially be covered in these pages to help introduce new players to the concepts. I feel like that would be nice, we could even introduce players in the game itself in the tutorial. "Hey this is what a PVE only card looks like" "This color here means this is an AI only card" "This kind of flair means that this is an alternate art variant".

But then again, think of all the trees they're saving by not having to feed all those new punch cards into the Serv-o-tron 29,000,000.

Timlagor
02-24-2016, 09:30 AM
To be fair... THEY HAVE DIFFERENT ART! That makes them pretty distinctive... ;)

Yes. As I said I can mostly recognise that they are AA from the art. However *mostly* and these are cards I've been looking at a while. Given the radical price differences for many AAs I'd like to be able to tell at a glance whether an unfamiliar card is an AA.

Not quite as much as I'd like to be able to turn off EAs universally for my client.

Clawdius
02-24-2016, 12:48 PM
Not quite as much as I'd like to be able to turn off EAs universally for my client.

They've been working on making that feature available for about ten months now, but I still wouldn't hold my breath. It's a shame though, because it's a very common request and I haven't seen it mentioned since #4 here: http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=43239&page=22&p=487467&viewfull=1#post487467 although I will note that I don't constantly read every post made on the forums or anything.