PDA

View Full Version : Lack of PvE cards in packs



Alamand
01-27-2016, 06:16 PM
I'm just starting in on the dungeon grind to try and get some key cards before I go into the final dungeon and the 1 PvE card per pack is really starting to hit home.

From the way it sounded (and how I think it should be) when they were describing the packs I thought the ratio of PvE cards to PvP would be random, with PvP being the less common. Instead every pack it's been 2 (worthless) PvP cards and 1 PvE every pack.

So far the dungeons have been about as long as an arena run, and are a significant step up in difficulty and it feels really bad to put all that effort in and come out of it with only a single card and significantly less gold compared to arena.

Xenavire
01-27-2016, 06:21 PM
Arena usually had maybe 1-2 cards per run, if you were lucky (none if you were unlucky.) This isn't all that different overall, you are just guaranteed a card and no more. Helps keep them worth something.

Fyren
01-27-2016, 06:28 PM
Well, to be fair, this is low-level content. So I'm not shocked that the rewards are worse than Frost Ring tiers in terms of strict value. As Xena noted, most of the PvE cards that poured out of Frost Ring are completely worthless now after flooding the market, so a reduced supply is something I don't necessarily disagree with.

And sure, the gold payout is light, but you are also leveling a character. The money gain does appear to be slowly accelerating and thus at high levels we might see better rewards than Frost Ring payouts.

Alamand
01-27-2016, 06:45 PM
I definitely get more than 1-2 cards from my arena runs, unless you qualify it as "useful" cards, but PvE packs also have that problem. And arena still had a few valuable cards even with the amount that were given out, until they decided to heavily nerf them.

And yes, it's low level content, but the problem will continue into high level content.

Overall, it feels wrong to me that we're getting more PvP cards than PvE, not to mention we're getting 2 equipment for every 1 PvE card when you need 4 cards per equipment so as usual the equipment will be completely worthless.

hex_colin
01-27-2016, 06:51 PM
I definitely get more than 1-2 cards from my arena runs, unless you qualify it as "useful" cards, but PvE packs also have that problem. And arena still had a few valuable cards even with the amount that were given out, until they decided to heavily nerf them.

And yes, it's low level content, but the problem will continue into high level content.

Overall, it feels wrong to me that we're getting more PvP cards than PvE, not to mention we're getting 2 equipment for every 1 PvE card when you need 4 cards per equipment so as usual the equipment will be completely worthless.

The PVP cards you're getting are the staples of any TCG. They're there because they're needed in decks and for various strategies people might employ to beat encounters. Just because folks might want to try to play without spending any money at all doesn't mean they won't have to obtain and use PVP cards to progress. The AH exists for a reason and it's not just to make Wurtil rich. :P

You expect them to create new cards that do exactly the same thing just so they can call them PVE cards? That would just cost time and money that doesn't need to be spent.

Alamand
01-27-2016, 06:56 PM
The PVP cards you're getting a staples of any TCG. They're there because they're needed in decks and for various strategies people might employ to beat encounters.

You expect them to create new cards that do exactly the same thing just so they can call them PVE cards? That would just cost time and money that doesn't need to be spent.

Not sure where you're getting the whole creating PvE versions of PvP staples from, I'm just saying the card slots in PvE packs should be randomized between PvE and PvP. So when you open a pack you could end up with 3 PvE cards, or 3 PvP, or anywhere in between.

Selanius
01-27-2016, 07:36 PM
Not sure where you're getting the whole creating PvE versions of PvP staples from, I'm just saying the card slots in PvE packs should be randomized between PvE and PvP. So when you open a pack you could end up with 3 PvE cards, or 3 PvP, or anywhere in between.

I strongly dislike this suggestion, I'd much rather get a PvE card for sure than consistently get 3 PvP "staples" I have over 100 of.

Rendakor
01-27-2016, 09:12 PM
I strongly dislike this suggestion, I'd much rather get a PvE card for sure than consistently get 3 PvP "staples" I have over 100 of.
Assuming each card had an even chance of being PVP or PVE, you would end up with 1 extra PVE card every 2 packs, on average.

Mike411
01-28-2016, 12:15 AM
I see where you're coming from, it seems like a lot of the adventure/dungeon pack value is wasted on PvP commons (that now are probably close to worthless based off how much of them are being given out in campaign). I think it would make sense to reward more gold instead of any random-reward PvP cards, and teach people to get PvP cards via the auction house.

Fateanomaly
01-28-2016, 12:17 AM
But the thing is they could have also simply reduce the pack size and not give any pvp cards at all. The fact that they do should be seen as a bonus.

Mike411
01-28-2016, 12:25 AM
I do see it as a bonus, a bonus that would be better if converted into gold because gold is (or at least should be) universally wanted.

LNQ
01-28-2016, 12:26 AM
Yeah I feel like the 1 PvE card per pack is enough at the moment. I feel if this would change it would just be to strip away the PvP cards altogether and not replace them with PvE. Perhaps dungeon rewards and at least Raid rewards eventually should have more, but for Adventure Zone packs it seems fine.

Goliath764
01-28-2016, 03:31 AM
Not sure where you're getting the whole creating PvE versions of PvP staples from, I'm just saying the card slots in PvE packs should be randomized between PvE and PvP. So when you open a pack you could end up with 3 PvE cards, or 3 PvP, or anywhere in between.

I think they make sure each pack gives out PvP cards because they are staple and can be very useful for a new player with zero collection to improve his deck from the get-go, as compared to the PvE cards which from what I see are not as core to any specific decks but is insanely powerful when you have decks dedicated to it so they are like "bonus" you will get after you have a good deck going.


I see where you're coming from, it seems like a lot of the adventure/dungeon pack value is wasted on PvP commons (that now are probably close to worthless based off how much of them are being given out in campaign). I think it would make sense to reward more gold instead of any random-reward PvP cards, and teach people to get PvP cards via the auction house.

I think the current pack opening route is better for two reasons. One, the joy of opening packs. As I am playing the Cory Pepsi challenge, pack opening has been the most exciting moment of the campaign. It just feels much better than browsing through the AH for a Burn. Two, newer players, especially those with less experience in the TCG genre, might not have ideas on what card to get among the amount of choices listed in the AH. Not to mention they have to browse through hundred of pages tediously just to see what card do what, assuming they don't know about the websites. Based on my experience, only a minority of people would check on various websites and such or card list, the new players would want to play the game and stay in the game than to check this and that on a browser. The pack solves this issue by not forcing the players to make choices but to give them (very useful) toys to play with so they can just keep playing and playing and still improve their deck and understanding of the game in a fun way.

Mike411
01-28-2016, 04:46 AM
newer players, especially those with less experience in the TCG genre, might not have ideas on what card to get among the amount of choices listed in the AH. Not to mention they have to browse through hundred of pages tediously just to see what card do what, assuming they don't know about the websites. Based on my experience, only a minority of people would check on various websites and such or card list, the new players would want to play the game and stay in the game than to check this and that on a browser. The pack solves this issue by not forcing the players to make choices but to give them (very useful) toys to play with so they can just keep playing and playing and still improve their deck and understanding of the game in a fun way.

They can stay in the game though. In the deck editor they can filter to view all mage cards to make the most of a mage talent, and use 'show all cards' to include mage cards they don't own.

That being said I know what you mean about it being more exciting to get cards rather than currency - for me, currency is more exciting (gotta try to spin more chests haha), but I can easily see it being the opposite for a new player.

Alamand
01-28-2016, 06:07 AM
But the thing is they could have also simply reduce the pack size and not give any pvp cards at all. The fact that they do should be seen as a bonus.

Let's be honest, the pvp cards are there as a thinly veiled psychological manipulation to make you feel like you're getting more value while padding out what content is there, it's a fairly standard practice. I just think maybe it's a bit too much padding, and the ratios feel wrong.


I think they make sure each pack gives out PvP cards because they are staple and can be very useful for a new player with zero collection to improve his deck from the get-go, as compared to the PvE cards which from what I see are not as core to any specific decks but is insanely powerful when you have decks dedicated to it so they are like "bonus" you will get after you have a good deck going.

1. No one is saying get rid of the PvP cards (though i wouldn't mind if they did) just shift is slightly so it's at least an even split, though I'd prefer if the current ratio was reversed.

2. Saying it's good for the new players isn't really true, I could easily get all the commons I've gotten from campaign for a few thousand gold, which any new player could get almost instantly, and it would teach them how to use the AH... if they hadn't shut it down in what appears to be an attempt to control the market and avoid/reduce the first few days of profitable cards (a bit conspiracy theory-ish I know).

dbug
01-28-2016, 06:14 AM
2. Saying it's good for the new players isn't really true, I could easily get all the commons I've gotten from campaign for a few thousand gold, which any new player could get almost instantly, and it would teach them how to use the AH... if they hadn't shut it down in what appears to be an attempt to control the market and avoid/reduce the first few days of profitable cards (a bit conspiracy theory-ish I know).

I disagree. I have talked with several new players trying Arena and they had the feeling that the game is pay2win and you could not progress without paying. But we know, this is not the case. But they didn't valued the gold they got and used the auction house until i pointed this out. The progression for new players is much better the way it is now.

Evilgm
01-28-2016, 06:18 AM
if they hadn't shut it down in what appears to be an attempt to control the market and avoid/reduce the first few days of profitable cards (a bit conspiracy theory-ish I know).
"a bit" is underselling it- it's just a lie you wholesale made up.

Steelio
01-28-2016, 06:22 AM
It's more for new players I think buddy ;] Don't get me wrong, I'd like there to be more PvE cards too. I guess it's a personal preference because I have lots of PvP commons. But if I was a newer player? I'd be able to get cards for decks I hadn't even made yet, which is pretty sweet. Also enables pauper PvP without much investment.

Lukezors
01-28-2016, 06:32 AM
Personally I wish we had some pve commons instead of the pvp ones included in the pack

Kingrags
01-28-2016, 06:55 AM
I do also agree with the 1 PvE-card/pack decision. If anything, I feal the PvE-packs come a little too frequent.

Kilo24
01-28-2016, 07:04 AM
With the way the economy works, awarding gold instead of PVP cards will have little effect on purchasing power since everyone else is also getting that increased gold. It will only affect hardcoded gold sinks like chest-spinning.

As a Kickstarter backer, the looted PVP commons really don't benefit me at all. Set 3's card prices (which will be even lower now with the glut of commons coming into the market) make it not worth it for me to bother selling them.

But I do think it's still a good move because it'll be good for new players. Not because it's likely any specific drop will improve their deck (chances are quite low that they'll both get a card appropriate to the decks they can make *and* it'll be an improvement) but because it'll drive down the cost of getting the staples on the AH. Gaining even the bit of gold needed for staple PVP commons/uncommons is not easy for a new player in the arena, and it seems to be even worse in campaign. This system's still worse than a more structured reward system could be (the starter trial packs were significantly better I feel - it might be worth bringing those back as race-specific rewards for early quests), but it does have its upsides.

Rendakor
01-28-2016, 11:08 AM
Personally I wish we had some pve commons instead of the pvp ones included in the pack
The Ben Stoll article over here (https://www.hextcg.com/pve-campaign-overview/) explains why they didn't go that route:

To speak to the common PvP cards, we wanted to be able to offer access to some basic building block commons (especially for players that are just starting out), and we don’t want to have double up on those simple designs, because that would allow players to run what would functionally be 8x of a given effect (say, Kill) in their deck instead of 4. Because the vast majority of value in a PvP pack is relegated to the Rare/Legendary slot, we felt that offering a subset of the commons from our PvP sets to the campaign experience would not affect the value of players’ collections.

Alamand
01-28-2016, 12:19 PM
I have to disagree with the PvP commons helping new players, you can buy playsets of every common you can get from PvE with the profits of a single arena run. so even new players don't need them after their first day of playing.

Either way it doesn't matter since no one is saying to get rid of them.

Rendakor
01-28-2016, 12:49 PM
Except new players aren't going to start the game by doing an arena run; they're going to start by doing the campaign. Clearing the arena as a noob isn't easy with a starter deck, either.