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View Full Version : Perspective on PVE from a new player.



Paradoxic
01-28-2016, 02:50 AM
Hey,
let me start this by saying that I am writing this because I like Hex otherwise I wouldn't have come to the forums. While I bought one of the alpha founder packs back in the day (that's why my account is from 2013), I only played for a bit and then waited for PVE so still consider myself a new player.

I think the positives are well covered in other posts (beatiful design, cool dialogues and so on) which is why I want to put in my negatives to keep it short.

So, I made it up until the 2nd dungeon (the one with the constellations in the sky) and I think that was one of my most frustrating experiences I had in a long time in videogaming (and I played all the Souls games, so I know what frustration means;)). I think I played this dungeon around 18 times now and it's impossible for me to beat. I basically use the PVP starter deck as my build because the "X" burn cards helped a lot in the normal encounters out of the dungeon and I think they were mostly fair designed. And while the encounters before the endboss are also OKish for me (I usually die only once) I have no chance against the boss and much of it stems from the 3 life system that is in place. I know it's a card game and much of it is RNG but if I have to mulligan 2-3 times because I basically get not a single shard (even though I have 25) the fight is lost from the get go so 1 life is gone. Then the boss seems to have the most luckiest hands everytime. Oh, 2 of the guys who get you 2 health when you play a shard which then also get buffed up to 11 in one round and then completly steamroll me. Like I said, I played this encounter now 18 times and this exact move happened in basically every game.

So, now I see in other posts the following statement: "Hey, those bosses are designed so you can build around their weakness!". And yes, while in theory nice, I think many people here in the forums (which is understandable since forums are mostly used by vets) seem to lack perspective that a new player has no cards to build around encounters. I have more than a completly new player (since I own most of the starter PVP Decks and opened around 20 boosters from Set 1) and combined with the shard grid (which I like initself) and the lack of cards it's impossible to build something against the boss if I not only lack the cards but the boss also draws the best combinations everytime. I don't know if people understand this but do you guys think that a new player likes to get stuck and even after playing the dungeon over and over feels like he can only progress if he throws money at the screen?

So, what can be done.

First, let me state the obvious. If that is a route Cryptozoic wants to take and they think the encounters are designed farily and are able be beaten by a new player with the limited cards he has, hey, that's cool, keep on walking that road, I probably just suck then and no other new player will have the same experience /s. I think it's the wrong one to take but if you mostly want to keep veterans since I here a lot of them are happy (not surprising if you have many cards to choose from) and you are fine with not really attracting new players, hey, more power to you.

Secondly, what I think would make the dungeon experience in PVE much better for newer players, without annoying veterans who like a bigger challenge, would be a normal mode and heroic mode of a dungeon, just like in MMOs. The normal dungeon mode would have either no lifes at all or a higher number (maybe like 10 lifes, I don't know). This would not only compensate for the heavy RNG involved but also lowers the frustration of going through the same 5 encounters over and over until you are at the boss only to get stomped. Heroic mode would have the 3 lifes and maybe you could even add a hardcore mode where you start at the beginning once you die. Obviously heroic and hardcore would give better rewards while the normal mode dungeon would let the player at least progress through the campaign. I for example am now stuck there at the dungeon and won't continue to playing (even though I bought 3500 plat a few hours ago to support crypt) unless something changes or I see that this is the route cryptozoic wants to take. In that case I at least know that cryptozoic mostly caters to the vets with lots of cards or at least the right cards.

Thirdly, correctly tune the bosses but I don't think that needs further explanation.

So, all in all I don't know if anyone of the vets agrees here with me but that's fine. I just wanted to explain how frustrating the experience for a new player is and that you won't keep a majority of the new players engaged when they are stuck in the first dungeon (after the tutorial) and can't progress any further. I like the idea of Hex and I like the mechanics but the way it's currently designed it's almost impossible to progress without throwing money at the screen for the right cards or just have extreme luck in RNG while the AI also has a brain fart and stopps pulling all the right cards and combinations.

I hope someone reads this and thanks for making it through!

DML
01-28-2016, 03:01 AM
Don't feel bad I have a deck that has 27 shards in to and out of 10 games against the sea hag i probably drew 10 shards total. Its the shuffler that they employ its an out and out piece of shit.

Cernz
01-28-2016, 03:03 AM
i guess it is ment to buy some "cheap" commons / uncommons at the AH with the "tiny" ;) gold rewards out of the campaign, to maybe have a better stand vs certain encounters, there are plenty of great commons/uncommons which certainly can help, but...

AH is still down and gold rewards seem to be kinda low afaik - at least it is an option to keep in mind.

Goliath764
01-28-2016, 04:06 AM
I am not sure what champion race and class are you using but maybe try the PvE starter deck for a change? The PvE starter deck had a chance to be more well-tuned for the PvE content than a straight PvP starter deck. I beat the dungeon on my first try with 1 life left(lost once to the Green image and once to the big boss) on level 4 Vennen Mage under the Cory Pepsi rules so I don't really have that good of a deck either but it's doable. I have also finished two other dungeon on my first try with said deck.

If you don't mind telling me your race and class, I wouldn't mind trying the dungeon as that champion for a trial run.

Paradoxic
01-28-2016, 06:11 AM
I am not sure what champion race and class are you using but maybe try the PvE starter deck for a change? The PvE starter deck had a chance to be more well-tuned for the PvE content than a straight PvP starter deck. I beat the dungeon on my first try with 1 life left(lost once to the Green image and once to the big boss) on level 4 Vennen Mage under the Cory Pepsi rules so I don't really have that good of a deck either but it's doable. I have also finished two other dungeon on my first try with said deck.

If you don't mind telling me your race and class, I wouldn't mind trying the dungeon as that champion for a trial run.

I play an orc warrior with the typical rush/aggro deck.

Gregangel
01-28-2016, 06:26 AM
Same here, i am a veteran but i play the campaign only with the starter pve deck and the cards earned in the campign. I cleared this dungeon by loosing only one life with a coyoutou cleric and a necromant mage. Not very difficult.
So i think the problem is just a very very bad luck

Gregangel
01-28-2016, 06:30 AM
Never feel like the game has a shuffling problem

Parzival
01-28-2016, 06:34 AM
Paradoxic, you are rushing a ramp deck who can outlast you. I'm going to call you out, you mentioned the Souls games, I didn't play them, I'm not that hardcore ;) but isn't the whole point each death is a lesson? What did throwing yourself against a cheesy boss 18 times teach you?

Did you not think, hey wait a moment this isn't working, maybe I should try something else, hmm maybe start a new character and farm the 5 Adventure Packs available before the second dungeon (plus quest rewards) maybe I could throw together a better deck?

I think the second dungeon difficulty does go through the roof but you do have options.

Oh, just btw, one of my guildies finished the second dungeon with one life lost, starter pve deck plus found cards - it can be done :cool:

zadies
01-28-2016, 06:36 AM
I will just point out that the boss has multiple modes and depending on your actions(or possibly just your answer at the end of it) You get a boss that has different decks/abilities.... you might just want to try to vary your answers.

Tinfoil
01-28-2016, 06:37 AM
Yeah, I also beat it without problems with starter a Coyotle starter PvE deck.

Edit: Not to say it is easy with any deck. It may well be hard with some decks. But it is definately doable with a starterdeck+rewards for some race/class combos.

Elwinz
01-28-2016, 06:41 AM
Poepllle are doing that contnet with what they just gotten free, the first dungeon is very easy and doable. I have stemarolled that dungeon with shinhare deck using mostly commons and uncommons. NOt quite the starter but very cheap ( shinhare starter is teribad)

Knowledge about the game is quite important here.. It was the same when arena launched vet players were clearing it with starter while new players mostly couldnt get past thorugh 1st boss. There are ridciulosly hard encounters further into campaign but that dungeon isnt.

Strom
01-28-2016, 06:52 AM
Personnaly i think new palyer can win with a few card i actually made a cleric/necrotic deck wih no rare and no legendary and i defeted the quuen worms, and i don't get muhc difficulties for others encounter. The only cards that i have to buy are 2 rigourouss paladin, 2 paladin of necropolis and 2 grim harvester + 3 srcible (that's what? 10K gold max ?)

Strom
01-28-2016, 06:54 AM
Btw i totaly agrre with Elwinz the knowledge of all the mecanics are what makes you win

Baigan
01-28-2016, 06:58 AM
To break the monotony, I've played the dungeon three times as a Dwarf warrior using only the cards from the campaign and lost twice at the boss fight. Both losses were to the W/R variant which, without removal, seems to require a lot of luck to kill with a starter deck. Finally brought her down when I got the B/D lifegain variant and a bit of luck.

As mentioned above, what you should do given this experience is check out the AH for cards that can give your deck an advantage, but that's down at the moment. It may also be worthwhile to share your deck—maybe we can find ways to help you improve in terms of card choice within the pool of cards you have.

Elwinz
01-28-2016, 07:08 AM
I learnt for this thread that this boss has different versions LOL. I was fighting b/d verison

Gryffe
01-28-2016, 07:20 AM
I was pretty confident when I first did this dungeon. As a proud Shin'Hare warrior, it was an evidence that mere doggies, even made of stars, were no match for my unmatched warrior skills.

So here I am, beginning the fight as a mere level 3, with 5 life in stock since I have a racial for that.

The first loss was very quick - two mulligans, only 1 shards with 11 cards in hand.
The second was more frustrating. I almost had a win condition with Sora and a concubunny in play, but she slow me down with sapphire removal and I got a bit manascrew in the end, not getting any higher than 4 shards in the late-game.
However, I turned the tide at the third match. This game stalled for waaaaaayyy to long because of the lack of good draw in my hand for ~10 turns, but my killblade, high amount of HP and some evolve sufficed to hold the lane until my Elite rune ears crushed her.

I was using the basic deck, with the addition of Sora. I removed Atrophy, Shadowgrove witch and one Blossoming concubunny with Kill x3, Cottontail Ronin, Deploiement Order, Shin'Hare Eulogist and Tormented ritualist.

I think that you must use a deck able to stall the game to defeat her. She has cheap removal with lots of healing cards, so if you try to rush her down, it comes down to a gamble - that she'll lack the proper response to your threats.


EDIT : wait, she has multiple decks ? I was fighting the Wild / Sapphire one. Horrible to play against.

Koz
01-28-2016, 07:29 AM
Whenever you have someone come in and voice concerns about the difficulty of any given aspect of a game, you always have people who come rushing out of the woodwork to say how they "beat it with no problem". Good for them, but that's not helpful input in and of itself.

I can kind of see where the OP is coming from, but the issue here isn't that the boss is unbeatable (it isn't), but the RAMP in difficulty between that boss and all previous encounters is staggering. I had been rolling through the content on the "Cory Challenge" of just using the starter decks and stuff I had found and wasn't really having any issues (excepting the Piranha encounter), then I hit this boss and I was shocked at how much more difficult it was compared to everything else I had played against. It's beatable, but it still felt like the campaign difficulty went from 1...2...3...4...12!

Ironically, one of my first thoughts was what new players would feel about such an encounter. I had imagined that it would be quite shocking to anyone who hadn't spent long hours in the Arena to get accustomed to powerful opposing champions. Guess I wasn't far off.

Goliath764
01-28-2016, 07:40 AM
Yeah the boss has multiple decks; I fought her Ruby/Wild variation, which I think can be troublesome for a Vennen since the power of R/W late game is insane. I might have gotten lucky on my last life and my second attempt at the boss because she just steamrolled me with all the Crushing power on my first attempt.

Paradoxic
01-28-2016, 07:50 AM
As mentioned above, what you should do given this experience is check out the AH for cards that can give your deck an advantage, but that's down at the moment. It may also be worthwhile to share your deck—maybe we can find ways to help you improve in terms of card choice within the pool of cards you have.

And that's exactly what I meant with my post. I shouldn't be forced to buy new cards from the AH if I can't beat the boss (at least not the first dugenon boss after the tut) and I already have the PVP starter deck, so I have bought cards. I have 3500 in plat that I could throw at the game but that wasn't the point I tried to make.

Judging from the people here telling that it's super easy and steamrollable without any issues I guess I just suck so bad and it's my fault that I get into the end fight and one life is always lost because I don't get 1 single shard with 25 shards in a 60 card deck and have to mulligan at least 2 times and then lose because I am so much cards behind with a standard rush deck. I guess this game is just not for me then and no other new player will have the same experience. But Crypt got at least 2 times money from me so it's not all for a loss and I am not a "cheapskate" complaining;)

Thanks though at all you guys!

Incindium
01-28-2016, 08:02 AM
I would say that experience with Hex's mechanics is a big factor in beating the encounters in the PVE Campaign. I'm playing as Shin'Hare Mage with only found cards so far. I've actually only changed my deck by adding/swapping cards I've won so far. I was able to beat the second Dungeon and only had to repeat 1 maybe 2 battles.

I'm saying this to let you know it is beatable this way not to put you down in any way.

I think the thing we need to discuss may be what are ways that the PVE campaign can help build the skills in playing HEX to make these Dungeons less frustrating to people with less experience.

That said I've played hundreds of hours of Hex PVP and my perspective of it being beatable it going to likely be a long way from a new players experience.

Paradoxic
01-28-2016, 08:08 AM
I think the thing we need to discuss may be what are ways that the PVE campaign can help build the skills in playing HEX to make these Dungeons less frustrating to people with less experience.


Yeah, and having 3 lifes in a Dungeon were 5 encounters are before that makes it frustrating to improve yourself, that's what I meant and my proposal were dungeon difficulties with a normal mode where you don't have lifes and then 2 more difficulties for vets with more experience. Then you wouldn't need to tune the encounter and newbies could at least try the boss a few times and not "waste" time on starting the dungeon over and over again.

And I didn't mean to imply it's not beatable, of course it is but my perspective is from someone who is a newbie with almost no experience and that reflects probably at least some new players who feel the same way like me. Also my deck isn't randomly thrown together, it's basically the starter deck from the guys over at Hexprimal.

Svenn
01-28-2016, 08:09 AM
And that's exactly what I meant with my post. I shouldn't be forced to buy new cards from the AH if I can't beat the boss. I have 3500 in plat that I could throw at the game but that wasn't the point I tried to make. Judging from the people here telling that it's super easy and steamrollable without any issues I guess I just suck so bad and it's my fault that I get into the end fight and one life is always lost because I don't get 1 single shard with 25 shards in a 60 card deck and have to mulligan at least 2 times and then lose because I am so much cards behind with a standard rush deck. I guess this game is just not for me then and no other new player will have the same experience. But Crypt got at least 2 times money from me so it's not all for a loss and I am not a "cheapskate" complaining;)

Thanks though at all you guys!

A couple things here:

First, you're blaming the shuffler here. Either you've had an incredible streak of bad luck (which is possible, but also has very low chances, especially with a free mulligan), or you are only remembering the few bad times and not the times where the draws were fine.

Second, buying from the AH doesn't mean plat! The AH allows for posting in gold for a reason. It's not unreasonable to expect a player to use the gold they have earned from playing the game to purchase cards. Gold is another form of progression. I think there might be a problem communicating to new players that gold is meant to be used to upgrade your deck using the AH, and that is part of progression. This might just be a problem with the way the game communicates to new players, not an issue with you.

Third, "progression" in a card game is going to be heavily affected by experience and card game knowledge. That's one thing that I think a lot of new players don't understand (and again, isn't communicated effectively, so not entirely their fault). An experienced player with a starter deck can probably roll through a lot of encounters with no problems. A new player with a high end deck might still struggle on those same encounters. HOW you play is just as, if not more, important than WHAT you play. Now, again, not blaming new players here. Maybe that means the game isn't effectively preparing them with the knowledge they need.

Last, I've seen people that expect to progress from encounter to encounter and beat each one without ever backtracking or stopping to level up. MMOs these days have trained people to follow a quest path leveling up along the way with little trouble. However, the progression path of this is going to resemble a more end-game like structure from the start, in which you might be expected to backtrack and level up/farm some cards before progressing. Again, another thing not effectively communicated to a new player.

So, the take away here is that the game does seem fairly balanced. The problem is in communicating some of the expectations to new players about how to play/how to improve themselves or their character. Your feedback (and all the feedback from new players) is very valuable. I just think some people are looking at it the wrong way.

For the experienced players... if you see a new player struggling or complaining about the difficulty or something don't just tell them it's easy and they are wrong. Try and explain to them some of the points above or give them some pointers.

Fred
01-28-2016, 08:24 AM
Also, I would like to add that every encounter is a puzzle to be solved, and not a simple fight to mindlessly click through, especially with the Cory challenge. This is not the Arena. I sincerely think there is no one deck that is suited for every encounter. While a Ruby rush/aggro deck might be good for some encounters, maybe that strategy isn't appropriate here.

I've had encounters in which I lost several times in a row myself (I'm looking at you Lost Gnomes). After the first few losses, it became obvious that the strategy I had applied through the campaign up until that point was no longer valid against those wormoids, so I set up to find the weak point of that specific encounter and I tuned my deck and my playing strategy accordingly. It's not the encounter that was too difficult, it was my strategy that was not well adapted to the situation.

Tazelbain
01-28-2016, 08:29 AM
This is the thing that I don't like about PvE packs, it encourages a view that you should build decks just from won cards. For vets that's fine hard mode challenge, but for new players it's not going cut it. Using action house is essential to new player experience. Buy cards off the auction (especially commons and uncommons for gold) is not failing, it's wisely using your resources to over come your challenges. Of course, auction house has been down a good bit so that be a hindrance but when it's up exploit the hell out of it.

Paradoxic
01-28-2016, 08:53 AM
Snip

Thanks, that's at least a bit more helpful than just throwing at me how easy it is. But like I said also, I see people all the time saying "build around the encounter". I fully get that, totally but if I don't have the cards (which a new player doesn't have at the first boss). With what cards I should build around it? I have none.

Sure, once the AH opens up you can buy it there but I peronsally think it's the wrong form of progression if you are stuck at the first boss because the standard PVP/PVE deck doesn't cut it in the first dungeon. The later dungeons? Sure, totally fine with me but not the first. Maybe I am just thinking wrong here. Also, I play MMORPGs since Meridian so I am well aware of how much more difficult progression was in MMOs back in the day and how EQ1 required corps runs. I just overall think that the progression curve in the first dungeon is too tough and shouldn't require buying new cards so early in the PVE campaign. But like I said, maybe that's wrong and the wrong direction that Crypt doesn't want to take.

Tarquin
01-28-2016, 09:23 AM
Paradoxic, you are rushing a ramp deck who can outlast you. I'm going to call you out, you mentioned the Souls games, I didn't play them, I'm not that hardcore ;) but isn't the whole point each death is a lesson? What did throwing yourself against a cheesy boss 18 times teach you?

Did you not think, hey wait a moment this isn't working, maybe I should try something else, hmm maybe start a new character and farm the 5 Adventure Packs available before the second dungeon (plus quest rewards) maybe I could throw together a better deck?

I think the second dungeon difficulty does go through the roof but you do have options.

Oh, just btw, one of my guildies finished the second dungeon with one life lost, starter pve deck plus found cards - it can be done :cool:

You don't have to farm to beat dark souls

Kalis
01-28-2016, 09:33 AM
You don't have to farm to beat dark souls

You don't have to farm to beat this game either. I beat the Tranquil Dream without losing a single life just using the Human PvE starter deck.

nicosharp
01-28-2016, 09:40 AM
I'll have to go back and play the campaign again to see how long I can avoid this dungeon and what level I can achieve before I go back to tackle it?

I found that a break point for some class/race combos to start shining in the dungeon (or at least for mine) was level 6. Even then, as a Human/Mage on my first playthrough, only having 16hp (with 1 talent buff) was still a challenge in the fights.

So there are a few things immediately against a new player if they choose a more challenging class/race combination, and if they get hit with the RNG ugly stick too many times.

At some point though, even the newbiest of newbs will need to tweak their deck and figure a few things out about what their deck may be lacking, and tweak accordingly.

The best advice I can offer right now to a brand new player is - If you get stuck, Exit the Campaign, and Make a new Character. Try it and see how you like it and how far you progress?

So far, I've noticed that early cheap healing/tempo synergy decks are insanely powerful and able to blow through most of the content. They seem to have more backbone for a new player than an aggressive all-in style deck may provided, or a slower ramp deck.

Tazelbain
01-28-2016, 09:44 AM
There is still an fail/adapt/overcome cycle. To adapt players are going to need new cards to give more them options. Farming packs is one option. Leveling a new char to get new packs is another. Buying cards on the auction house is vital as I was saying. Nicos list is good: http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=47160

Gregangel
01-28-2016, 10:18 AM
Thanks, that's at least a bit more helpful than just throwing at me how easy it is.

We said that because when you wrote you try18 times without winning , your are saying that the game is not calibrated for newsbie and it provide an unfair experience.
But it not true. The dev ensurethe first dungeon after the tutorila dungeon can be beaten by the pve starter deck. And we prove that.

The issue is not the game but the player. His bad luck (it may happen) but more certainly his bad choice. As a veteran, i can say that in your case it is simple. Choosing a aggro deck for a first newsbie playthrough is the worst choice you could make. The aggro deck ruby is good for farming the campaign when you are a good knowledge of it and you are able to choose the rights spots to farm.
A aggro deck in a game with so differents matchup will always been stuck against some opponnents. (sorry for my poor english)

LNQ
01-28-2016, 10:25 AM
I'll have to go back and play the campaign again to see how long I can avoid this dungeon and what level I can achieve before I go back to tackle it?

Picked this quote because I feel it reflects one big issue that the campaign has regarding new players and character progression: there is no meaningful way to grind levels. In a MMO, a lot of time is spent in the open world killing basic mobs to get XP to be able to tackle dungeons you might otherwise have problems with due to your level. That's something Hex needs: more random encounters. They need a place like the Pokémon tall grass where you can run around and encounter random AI opponents that drop a bit of loot and most importantly give XP.

Also very importantly, those encounters should give XP even if you lose, which means that some of the random encounters can be made very hard, some easier. They also should have a chance to drop some very rare loot so new players that might be forced to grind them have a chance at some cool bonus while grinding.

LNQ
01-28-2016, 10:26 AM
The issue is not the game but the player.

That's not true. It's most definitely an issue with the game if new players are having frequent experiences like this. The campaign must be newbie friendly. It's the most important thing.

Another thing that can be done is that after one or two failed dungeon attempts, perhaps players are given an option for easy mode with unlimited lives, at least for the first few dungeons.

Svenn
01-28-2016, 10:57 AM
Picked this quote because I feel it reflects one big issue that the campaign has regarding new players and character progression: there is no meaningful way to grind levels.

I haven't really tried yet... can you not just re-play old encounters for exp and more cards/packs? If not, that's a problem.

Vorpal
01-28-2016, 11:01 AM
It's good to hear about the experiences new players are having with the campaign.

I would say the single biggest issue here is the unwillingness to spend the gold you are earning to buy cards from the AH. That is a huge part of progression. The tutorial needs to make this more clear.

Seluhir
01-28-2016, 11:15 AM
I haven't really tried yet... can you not just re-play old encounters for exp and more cards/packs? If not, that's a problem.

You can, but the rewards are like 1/5 of the first time reward, so it would take literally HOURS to gain anything. It's basically not worth it at all.

I didn't think the first time reward was excessive, in fact I felt it might actually be too low even considering it is repeatable... so I dunno why the sharp decrease in rewards.

My suggestion from the limited time I've seen so far is such:

Set the encounter 'repeat' reward to what the 'first time' reward is. Give a 'first time' bonus of say 50%. - this helps with the 'grinding' limitation.

Add an 'Arena' location where you can choose a few basic parameters and get randomly generated foes that give exp/gold when beaten and a chance at additional PvE packs dependent upon difficulty. - this completely resolves the grinding issue

Make PvE packs yield 'Small Chests' when opened that can be spun for cheap(say 300g) on the wheels of fate but award pve rewards when spun or opened UNLESS they happen to upgrade to a normal chest, then they become treated as normal. - this brings one of the most fun parts of the pvp side into pve, and gives them a low chance to get some of the really cool stuff we've all been seeing off the Wheels but only in extremely rare cases(not only do they need to upgrade the chest to even get a normal, but then they need to spin it again and get lucky off that - it creates that 'extremely rare droprate' feeling that all mmos have. I still remember finding my first BoE epic in WoW and that was 10 years ago. Hex NEEDS this for the PvE, and getting that one in a million upgrade run of a small chest to a primal could fill that need.)

Erebus
01-28-2016, 11:25 AM
The goal to getting new players through the campaign successfully is through veterans.

As Veterans we need to advise new players on the proper way to overcome content. Deckbuilders are inherently difficult to learn and understand. Things like curves and shard ratios take awhile to master. The biggest help we can give new players is solid advice on how to improve their deck, and it begins with card pool.

This is a TCG and needs to be played as such in the campaign. If you get stuck you need to get more cards. Unfortunately, other then taming, most repeatable encounters don't give you adventure packs, however it's still extremely easy to get new cards for your collection.

As veterans we need to advise new players that they HAVE to get new cards by doing the following:

Create a new character. You know the content, and if you go with a second character you can get more adventure packs = more cards. There's value in using the same race as well as different races. With the same race you get multiple of certain racial cards (tutors, racial specific quest rewards etc.). If you are using different races your card pool doesn't overlap, so you can use the reward from each to make both decks stronger simultaneously.

Use the AH. This is an MMOTCG, and the AH is part of the design. If you think you shouldn't have to use the AH, you going against game design and probably destined to lose. Certain commons are just stronger then others. Kill is way more useful then Atrophy in about 99 of 100 cases. And equipment matters, especially for commons that make up most of your deck.

Trade! Once again this is an MMOTCG, and that's Trading Card Game. Trade with fellow newbies. If you are playing humans and you get a blood common, try and trade for a good diamond common (inner conflict or repel are great). With uncommons and commons don't worry about value so much, trade 1 for 1 of equal rarity. If you get a rare or legendary, hit the auction house, find out what it's worth. Trade it for an equivalent card of the shards you need, or just sell it directly for plat/gold.

Most new players won't think of these things initially. Maybe they should be part of the tutorial. Have the tutorial force you to spend some gold to get a good common (Kill, Inner Conflict, Time Ripple, Burn, Chlorophylia) from a fake AH. Until that hap[pens it's up to us veterans to lead the way.

Another thing we veterans can do is teach the new players what are the good commons and uncommons. How cards like Eulogist and Buccaneer can power up their respective decks.

This game is an MMO, we try and say it's not there yet, but it's partially on us to interact with fellow players in a meaningful way.

nicosharp
01-28-2016, 11:31 AM
New players aren't always the ones seeking outside advice though. In a bubble, they will want to figure things out on their own. Ideas and suggestions are already out there for those that want it.

Anyways, as a quick plug - I am working on a guide based on my first playthrough, and more to come on it later. Big project, and may take a few days, in collaboration with others. More to say and cross-link on that later.

Goliath764
01-29-2016, 05:00 AM
You can, but the rewards are like 1/5 of the first time reward, so it would take literally HOURS to gain anything. It's basically not worth it at all.

I think dungeons are still full XP after the first clear and probably the best way to grind and farm up than regular encounters.

Renquist
01-29-2016, 05:38 AM
/shrug

Beat the first dungeon with a necrotic warrior deck taking Cory's challenge.

I will say I would have been in trouble had the AI buffed a wreckasaurus as opposed to an 1/1 elf who gains one mana when attacking.

Mejis
01-29-2016, 05:41 AM
Not read all of this, but just wanted to respond that I beat this dungeon first try using the coyote cleric PvE starter deck with the only modifications being a few of the cards I picked up along the way (not trying to brag). I certainly didn't think it was an unfair dungeon foe the level it was at at this stage, but perhaps that's the coyotle deck being slightly better than the one the OP used?

Beautiful dungeons btw, and dialogue/choices. Curious to know how it affects the outcomes/final boss etc.

Gregangel
01-29-2016, 06:18 AM
What's the point to grind xp ?
The level cap is 9. Until the release of the next chapter you will be there for a long time.
The grind is for gold and pve card to keep the f2p possibility without going in the arena again.

LNQ
01-29-2016, 06:36 AM
Not read all of this, but just wanted to respond that I beat this dungeon first try using the coyote cleric PvE starter deck with the only modifications being a few of the cards I picked up along the way (not trying to brag). I certainly didn't think it was an unfair dungeon foe the level it was at at this stage, but perhaps that's the coyotle deck being slightly better than the one the OP used?

The thing is some players just aren't that good at TCGs and the campaign should cater for them as well. Right now if you suck at the game you're not going to have that much fun at all. And that's a (or the) problem.

There should be fun experiences available for those players too, and getting 1/5 of the reward for repeating the same fight ad nauseam is not a fun experience.

Svenn
01-29-2016, 07:31 AM
So, I just beat Tranquil Dream last night using my Elf Mage all self-found deck. Honestly, I didn't even know I was in a dungeon until I got the rewards at the end. I also didn't realize that things actually changed with your choices apparently. I was actually disappointed at how short and how easy it was. Perhaps the other choices are harder, though. I'll have to replay it again to see.

I didn't go back and read all of this to check if you already said it, but have you tried choosing different dialog options, Paradoxic? I heard some of the last boss possibilities are real tough depending on your dialog choices, so maybe I just got one of the easy ones and you've been attempting the hard one?

Vorpal
01-29-2016, 07:49 AM
Was able to beat Tranquil Dream with the orc warrior starter + cards I found along the way.

A couple of the fights were difficult (I think one I only got by with 1 hp?). Basically large fliers my deck has real trouble facing.

I'd be curious to know what all the dialog choices are - from what I've seen it doesnt' modify the charge power of your opponent. Maybe the terrain effect? The cards in their deck?

zadies
01-29-2016, 01:14 PM
It modified if you get the other bonus effect like the opponent and for the last question modifies the bosses entire deck and charge powers.

Koz
01-29-2016, 02:28 PM
This boss as different versions, some are easier than others. I struggled the first time through and beat it pretty handily the second, so there is some RNG here that needs to be accounted for. One of the problems I had the first time through was that I hadn't made many changes to the starter deck yet and the S/D version draws a lot of cards and plays flyers and with the charge power, you are often facing an 8/8 flyer on turn four or five.

A few modifications to the deck and I would have been fine, but I hadn't felt the need up until that point because I had been easy rolling through the content. That's why I said earlier that the ramp in difficulty was shocking to me. The encounters were like: easy, easy, easy, easy, BRICK WALL.

So yeah, if you haven't tuned your deck much because the encounters were so easy up to that point, it can be quite jarring to suddenly have to earn your money, lol.