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View Full Version : PvE Feedback: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly



Quantius
01-28-2016, 06:18 AM
Let's jump right in:

The Good
New playmats/backgrounds are the hotness
Lots of awesome new PvE cards and lots of great new artwork

Restricted card pool: I'm loving that cards that were otherwise useless are game winners now. Eldon's Distress Signal is the dogs bollocks! I'm glad cards are somewhat restricted to avoid the 'Slaughtergears Aggro Deck of Winning without Trying'

Classes/Talent trees: I'm only a level 4 human mage, but it looks promising and I can't wait to see the next row of talents (no I haven't looked it up on the interwebs, I'm saving myself for incremental reveals).

I'm having fun. This is probably paramount and the main take away is that PvE is fun, doesn't mean it's perfect, but I play games for fun. This is fun. I'm having fun. Yay!


The Bad
Restricted card pool: Yes, it's also bad. I should have access to all my cards and all colors. I don't much care for tribal gameplay. Now the rarity restrictions are a double edged sword, as I mentioned previously, the restrictions allow for the use of non-"best" cards and I like this. But roping rarity into it is basically saying, "the higher the rarity, the higher the powerlevel" and while that's often generally true, making it official means that going forward we'll see the better cards pushed up in rarity. I put my money where my mouth is and I've spent hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and . . . (I like HEX and want to see it succeed) on this game, I want to use my cards.

Troops are still king: I made a post months ago about TCGs/CCGs being so troop focused these days, and the arena was basically a place for fast agro decks, I'm not seeing too much difference in the campaign which really bothers me. The game needs to be slowed down, it's way too fast, and while that's great for hyper-competitive spikes who just want to rack up wins, it's less fun for everyone else and for new players. The faster the game is the better cards you need to keep up. Anyway, I'm not going to write my treatise on this topic again here.

Leveling: It feels really slow. I've finished the tranquil dream dungeon and the hag and the river, I'm just level 4. PvE would have really benefitted from a more RPG style leveling system in which early levels are quick and easy to get and then it just keeps growing putting the grind on the back end.

New Player Experience: I'm not a new player, been around a long time. But from what I've played, I can't imagine this will make new players feel welcome. I'm not saying they should be breezing through the content, but (again) because the game is so fast they can find themselves annihilated over and over. Maybe a less linear overworld map with level markers saying, "beware: here be dragons level 7 recommended!" Would help change the mentality from, "okay. . . so I need to buy cards right now to play this game" to "Okay, I need to keep playing this game to level up." The longer you can keep a player interested in your product, the more likely they are to purchase something. If they come up against a wall, they're not going to be as motivated to open their wallet just to see what's past the wall. They'll just leave.


The Ugly
Loading: What is loading? The map is static. There are no visuals to worry about or draw distances to bog down resources, what is it? It's really bizarre that when a match loads, no problem, it runs fine, you can play the game. But you click on the next node on the map and it takes 8 minutes before it finishes loading. What? It makes no sense. The AI 'thinking' about moves is what should be the resource intensive part of the game, not the conversations on the map. They must all be tucked into one little area and all queries are sent to that same spot on the server in order for there to be lag for such a simple interaction. HEX is DDOSing it's own servers lol.

Packs: I'd like to see 2 PvE cards and 2 PvP cards (actually I don't care about PvP cards since I have almost all of them), but for new players. Or throw some dust in there. I dunno, they just feel anemic right now and there's so many things to collect in HEX. Alternate/Extended art, sleeves, Equipment, Mercs, PvE cards, PvP cards . . . and to anyone who talks about card "value" - go away. Your cards have no value. They'll truly have no value if HEX can't grow and maintain a healthy playerbase. It will never survive on the backs of a few hardcore fans. Like I said, I've spent a lot of money in this game and will have no qualms about spending more, but not if it looks like it's going to cater to a small group of bootlickers.

pjvedder
01-28-2016, 06:33 AM
Or throw some dust in there.

I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I've gotten some Uncommon dust from the PVE packs I've opened.

TJTaylor
01-28-2016, 06:43 AM
That's interesting that you feel leveling is slow. I was just thinking last night that I was leveling too fast. At the current rate, it won't take me but 2 to 3 days to get to max level on a fresh character once level 30 is available.

Alamand
01-28-2016, 06:43 AM
I agree with you on most things, but i have a few nitpicks.

Troops: While what you've said is mostly true, there are a few fights that are far harder with troop heavy decks, and one that's basically impossible without spells (piranhas).

Leveling: by the time you finish campaign you'll be level 7-8 and quickly hit the cap of 9 near the start of your dungeon grinding. The part you described is still fairly early in the campaign and leveling does go slower as you level.

Loading: It's not the assets taking forever, it's the client communicating with the server, whether it's from too many player, bugs in the code, or some combination of both, it's a fairly standard problem and will be resolved in a few days at most.

Quantius
01-28-2016, 06:45 AM
That's interesting that you feel leveling is slow. I was just thinking last night that I was leveling too fast. At the current rate, it won't take me but 2 to 3 days to get to max level on a fresh character once level 30 is available.

It could be due to the slow loading. Just playing through a handful of nodes takes 3-4 hours because it takes so long for the game to respond.

Raith
01-28-2016, 06:53 AM
I'm a pretty big fan of the restricted card pool even though I have most cards. It definitely helps with sense of progression. I have really enjoyed playing through the first time with only the starter deck and rewards. Although, I made an exception last night to add a few commons that I could have bought with gold if the AH were up. Leveling might be a bit slow, but feels ok.


Packs: I'd like to see 2 PvE cards and 2 PvP cards (actually I don't care about PvP cards since I have almost all of them), but for new players. Or throw some dust in there. I dunno, they just feel anemic right now and there's so many things to collect in HEX. Alternate/Extended art, sleeves, Equipment, Mercs, PvE cards, PvP cards . . . and to anyone who talks about card "value" - go away.

I like the packs. Sure, not every pack gives me an upgrade card I can use, but just looking at the cards from other shards makes me think about what I could do in another deck. Limited PvP cards being given out is fine, but expecting the packs to quickly provide all the things listed seems unrealistic. The AH can fill in gaps once new players get some experience.

Elwinz
01-28-2016, 06:58 AM
Its just usual load on first days of new game content. Counting EU timezone during night and morming, theres no lag at all. Lag starts at like 3pm wherer poeple are cmoing back from work school etc.

TJTaylor
01-28-2016, 06:59 AM
I like the restrictive pool as well. It really adds flavor to the different races and prevents me from just steamrolling over everything.

I also forgot to mention that you can sometimes get a stardust in place of one of the pieces of equipment in the packs. It doesn't happen very often.

bootlace
01-28-2016, 07:04 AM
The Bad
Restricted card pool: Yes, it's also bad. I should have access to all my cards and all colors. I don't much care for tribal gameplay. Now the rarity restrictions are a double edged sword, as I mentioned previously, the restrictions allow for the use of non-"best" cards and I like this. But roping rarity into it is basically saying, "the higher the rarity, the higher the powerlevel" and while that's often generally true, making it official means that going forward we'll see the better cards pushed up in rarity. I put my money where my mouth is and I've spent hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and . . . (I like HEX and want to see it succeed) on this game, I want to use my cards.

Except in some combinations (Elf Mage which I played for example) you can have more copies of legendaries in your deck than uncommons/rares. So your assumption is wrong.




Troops are still king: I made a post months ago about TCGs/CCGs being so troop focused these days, and the arena was basically a place for fast agro decks, I'm not seeing too much difference in the campaign which really bothers me. The game needs to be slowed down, it's way too fast, and while that's great for hyper-competitive spikes who just want to rack up wins, it's less fun for everyone else and for new players. The faster the game is the better cards you need to keep up. Anyway, I'm not going to write my treatise on this topic again here.

If you ever bother to level past 4, you will see that aggro decks get absolutely hosed in the later dungeons. I had to do a completely 180 and switch my mono Ruby aggro deck into a controllish mono Wild deck.



Leveling: It feels really slow. I've finished the tranquil dream dungeon and the hag and the river, I'm just level 4. PvE would have really benefitted from a more RPG style leveling system in which early levels are quick and easy to get and then it just keeps growing putting the grind on the back end.

It's just a number. They have limited talents to give out so just dinging with no suitable rewards is not a good experience. This is the very start of a lengthy possibly decade+ long adventure, so unless you think its cool to be level 243 in a year from now then I think it was a wise choice.



New Player Experience: I'm not a new player, been around a long time. But from what I've played, I can't imagine this will make new players feel welcome. I'm not saying they should be breezing through the content, but (again) because the game is so fast they can find themselves annihilated over and over. Maybe a less linear overworld map with level markers saying, "beware: here be dragons level 7 recommended!" Would help change the mentality from, "okay. . . so I need to buy cards right now to play this game" to "Okay, I need to keep playing this game to level up." The longer you can keep a player interested in your product, the more likely they are to purchase something. If they come up against a wall, they're not going to be as motivated to open their wallet just to see what's past the wall. They'll just leave.

You start out with a ready made balanced deck and the difficulty ramps up very slowly. I've heard Shin'hare are weak but having played Elfs, they were more than sufficient early on. I've seen people complain about the piranha encounter, them seemingly not even realizing it's not a path they should take. None of the really tough encounters like Killipede and Worms are even necessary to complete the campaign. I don't know what this 'game is so fast' thing is about, you start out with literally more than double the opponent's health in some cases and more cards. Naturally later on the encounters need to get more challenging otherwise it would be a really boring experience, even for the newish players. I did feel like the final two dungeons tried to aggro you a bit too hard and there was no really good control oriented opponent though, but those might be harder to design.



The Ugly
Loading: What is loading? The map is static. There are no visuals to worry about or draw distances to bog down resources, what is it? It's really bizarre that when a match loads, no problem, it runs fine, you can play the game. But you click on the next node on the map and it takes 8 minutes before it finishes loading. What? It makes no sense. The AI 'thinking' about moves is what should be the resource intensive part of the game, not the conversations on the map. They must all be tucked into one little area and all queries are sent to that same spot on the server in order for there to be lag for such a simple interaction. HEX is DDOSing it's own servers lol.

Unless you're a systems engineer with insight into how their game is built, this seems like a foolish comment at best. The rewards and completion need to naturally happen on the server side to avoid hacks and such so there's probably more going on here than you're aware.


Packs: I'd like to see 2 PvE cards and 2 PvP cards (actually I don't care about PvP cards since I have almost all of them), but for new players. Or throw some dust in there. I dunno, they just feel anemic right now and there's so many things to collect in HEX. Alternate/Extended art, sleeves, Equipment, Mercs, PvE cards, PvP cards . . . and to anyone who talks about card "value" - go away. Your cards have no value. They'll truly have no value if HEX can't grow and maintain a healthy playerbase. It will never survive on the backs of a few hardcore fans. Like I said, I've spent a lot of money in this game and will have no qualms about spending more, but not if it looks like it's going to cater to a small group of bootlickers.

They give you everything you have said either directly or indirectly except for Mercs. I imagine this will come later when the Mercs do come out because otherwise I can imagine folks like you hitting the forums and complaining about getting an item which they can't even use.

I would advise against making such bold and broad statements when you haven't even gone through half of the campaign if you want people to take you seriously in the future.

Strom
01-28-2016, 07:08 AM
Consiedering the aggro part i tottaly diseagre with the autor, i play a fullu defensive cleric/necrotic deck and he is very effective !

Elwinz
01-28-2016, 07:14 AM
Same i switche shinhare agro dekc to contorlish deck later in the campaing, Kiling worm queen or kilipede with shinahre would require extreme luck to win. Blood contorl dekc worked for me great against al the fights i played, and i am close to the end of the campaign.

Alamand
01-28-2016, 07:27 AM
You start out with a ready made balanced deck and the difficulty ramps up very slowly. I've heard Shin'hare are weak but having played Elfs, they were more than sufficient early on. I've seen people complain about the piranha encounter, them seemingly not even realizing it's not a path they should take. None of the really tough encounters like Killipede and Worms are even necessary to complete the campaign. I don't know what this 'game is so fast' thing is about, you start out with literally more than double the opponent's health in some cases and more cards. Naturally later on the encounters need to get more challenging otherwise it would be a really boring experience, even for the newish players. I did feel like the final two dungeons tried to aggro you a bit too hard and there was no really good control oriented opponent though, but those might be harder to design.

1st of on the whole post, no need to come across so hostile, they're simply sharing their experience. Not to mention from my experience and what I've hard, elves seem like the strongest race in PvE so you should take your experience with difficulty with a grain of salt, though I'm not sure if it applies to all classes, it sure does to elf warrior.

But the quoted part in particular, I'd argue worms and killipede are mandatory to "finish" campaign since they have associated quests, piranhas, worm queen, or even saving the princess on the other hand are optional since they're just fun bonuses with no quest attached. and I agree they're too difficult for "required" content, the effort required to beat them for most race/classes is far greater than the reward they give which always feels bad.

Quantius
01-28-2016, 07:46 AM
Except in some combinations (Elf Mage which I played for example) you can have more copies of legendaries in your deck than uncommons/rares. So your assumption is wrong.

Okay. Good for elf mages.


If you ever bother to level past 4, you will see that aggro decks get absolutely hosed in the later dungeons. I had to do a completely 180 and switch my mono Ruby aggro deck into a controllish mono Wild deck.

If I bothered? I updated right away and started the campaign as soon as it released. I'm just not as lucky as you when it comes to loading times it seems. That's how long my loading screens are. I'm only level 4 in two days. I'm sure they will fix this, but some of us apparently are having a worse time of it than others. Also, I'm not just talking about rush decks. I really don't want to get into it about troops again, but I have a feeling your "controllish" wild deck is still built around troops.


It's just a number. They have limited talents to give out so just dinging with no suitable rewards is not a good experience. This is the very start of a lengthy possibly decade+ long adventure, so unless you think its cool to be level 243 in a year from now then I think it was a wise choice.

You misunderstand what I'm saying. Early levels should go by faster while later levels should be slower thereby taking longer to hit max level overall, but the first levels would be much quicker. Of course, like I responded to another person, it could just be perception due to how long my loading times are.


You start out with a ready made balanced deck and the difficulty ramps up very slowly. I've heard Shin'hare are weak but having played Elfs, they were more than sufficient early on. I've seen people complain about the piranha encounter, them seemingly not even realizing it's not a path they should take. None of the really tough encounters like Killipede and Worms are even necessary to complete the campaign. I don't know what this 'game is so fast' thing is about, you start out with literally more than double the opponent's health in some cases and more cards. Naturally later on the encounters need to get more challenging otherwise it would be a really boring experience, even for the newish players. I did feel like the final two dungeons tried to aggro you a bit too hard and there was no really good control oriented opponent though, but those might be harder to design.

I'm not having any difficulty so far with the campaign. I don't know what game you're playing, most matches are done between turn 4-6. That's only possible because turns 1-3 have such potent drops. And if you are playing anything remotely slow, like combo or an actual control deck, you'll get rolled in those first few turns, unless you have bodies on the board or are playing burn. Even extinction is too slow most of the time in this game. If you haven't dropped blockers by the time you have 4 resources, you're probably dead.



Unless you're a systems engineer with insight into how their game is built, this seems like a foolish comment at best. The rewards and completion need to naturally happen on the server side to avoid hacks and such so there's probably more going on here than you're aware.
No, I don't know how the game is built, but something is clearly wrong. Yeah pretty much everything is server side, that's fine, but did they put everything in one place causing a bottleneck or did a few hundred thousand new players show up? Either way, I'm sure they'll figure it out eventually, doesn't mean it's not a problem at the moment. Need I remind you, it's so bad for me that I'm only level 4 despite trying to playing for about a dozen hours.



They give you everything you have said either directly or indirectly except for Mercs. I imagine this will come later when the Mercs do come out because otherwise I can imagine folks like you hitting the forums and complaining about getting an item which they can't even use.

I would advise against making such bold and broad statements when you haven't even gone through half of the campaign if you want people to take you seriously in the future.


Get bent with that nonsense. This is what I've experienced in the campaign thus far and am providing feedback for CZE. They're welcome to ignore it, add it to the pile, whatever - it's their game, not everyone is going to have the same experience they should know how different people receive it. This way they can make informed design decisions for updates/new content. So I advise you to stfu.

bootlace
01-28-2016, 08:05 AM
Get bent with that nonsense. This is what I've experienced in the campaign thus far and am providing feedback for CZE. They're welcome to ignore it, add it to the pile, whatever - it's their game, not everyone is going to have the same experience they should know how different people receive it. This way they can make informed design decisions for updates/new content. So I advise you to stfu.

The problem is you're critically reviewing a movie just 30 minutes into it and stating pretty damn boldly how this should be like this and that should be like that. You're welcome to provide your feedback and I'm welcome to point where I think you're wrong or misinformed. Sorry if I came across hostile, but some of your comments were really off and I think you should be able to take the criticism if you're willing to dish it. Enjoy the rest of the campaign.

Vorpal
01-28-2016, 11:23 AM
I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I've gotten some Uncommon dust from the PVE packs I've opened.

Yes. My wife (who just started playing) opened an uncommon stardust.

She told me she had received a stinky bottle.

We also had a good laugh about the piranha encounter after it destroyed her human cleric deck that had been making good progress thus far. She ruefully mentioned she was going to stick to bridges from now on. The piranha encounter put some fear into her heart for every other node that even looked like it was close to the river.

Seluhir
01-28-2016, 11:47 AM
"Packs: I'd like to see 2 PvE cards and 2 PvP cards (actually I don't care about PvP cards since I have almost all of them), but for new players. Or throw some dust in there. I dunno, they just feel anemic right now and there's so many things to collect in HEX. Alternate/Extended art, sleeves, Equipment, Mercs, PvE cards, PvP cards . . . and to anyone who talks about card "value" - go away. Your cards have no value. They'll truly have no value if HEX can't grow and maintain a healthy playerbase. It will never survive on the backs of a few hardcore fans. Like I said, I've spent a lot of money in this game and will have no qualms about spending more, but not if it looks like it's going to cater to a small group of bootlickers. "


I think adventure packs should have an extremely rare chance for one of the cards to be 'upgraded' from the standard pvp pool... but I get that's not going to fly because people don't appreciate that economy is supply vs demand and increasing supply only hurts value if you don't ALSO increase demand(which is what making the new player rewards more appealing will do) so I won't argue that here. So what I want to see, and what I suggested in another thread is simple:

Make PVE packs yield a 'Small Chest' that takes 300 gold to spin. All of the rewards on the wheels of fate are lesser versions of the normal chest rewards(so pve cards in stead of pvp, a new set of sleeves that is relatively easy to get, etc.) with the caveat that it CAN BE UPGRADED to a normal chest. This adds the concept of 'treasure chests' which is so common in most rpgs. It also adds that extreme spike of rarity 'OMG! I got a double upgrade! Now I got a pvp rare card! WOO!'

It also helps to keep the value of gold even higher by giving pve folks something to spend it on that is just their own. And gives them the ability to dip their feet into the joys of the other part of the game sometimes since they MIGHT just get something cool.