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ryuukan
01-28-2016, 06:49 AM
I've noticed a nasty habit growing among veteran hex players both on the forums here and in-game. Players both new and old will remark that a specific encounter was challenging, in their own choice of words, and a number of vets, some well known players, will immediately interject that "____ is easy, cake, simple" etc. Most players understand that the more difficult encounters are puzzles that you must solve with the right deck and the expressed frustration is a player's inability to crack the puzzle reliably.

I don't really know why people have this need to rush to condescension. Offer a hint, or even ask if they want a hint if you don't want to spoil the experience of solving the puzzle for them. If you want to keep up the moniker of "best community in gaming" please continue to act like it. This has happened infrequently over the Xarlox encounter from the Arena, but now with so much more content, its a common occurrence. New and old players will look up to you a lot more if you offer a hand first instead of boosting your self-esteem.

Elwinz
01-28-2016, 07:06 AM
What are you talking about, i follow chat quite a lot, and when poeple for example ask about piranhas etc, poeple always give tips.
As for some other easier enocunters, its a bit harder because first poeple might not see where is a problem in that encounter, where majority of players didnt have it.
If somemone would ask me how to beat f.e Hag i cant help much i just beat it with staple shinhare deck and thats it. And that wuold go for majority of easier fights lol.

ryuukan
01-28-2016, 07:09 AM
I never said people don't offer help at all and obviously we are all online at different times of the day with a rapidly streaming general chat

this is just my own observation from my experiences and felt it was relevant to share on a forum meant for community discussion

Kami
01-28-2016, 07:17 AM
The biggest problem I have with PvE Campaign so far is that it is literally possible to become stuck and unable to progress if you don't have the skills (especially deck-building, let alone deck-building with stricter restrictions than PvP) or cards/equipment.

There is currently nothing to assist players in deck building (and yes, I know AIDA is still coming) and the deck limitations for PvE don't help. It doesn't matter how big your collection is and you cannot use existing decks (because the majority are invalid for PvE). So, if a player is unable to progress, what exactly are they to do if nobody assist them or provides them with a deck list? Even then, it would be assuming they have the necessary cards/equipment.

The main issue here is that the game is being developed assuming that all TCG players know how to build a viable deck and are somehow able to learn while playing through the campaign, how to adjust their deck for encounters. Unfortunately, this will leave many players who otherwise enjoy the genre, stuck in limbo.

And yes, I've seen many comments in chat in regards to 'how easy' so and so is. I've also seen a lot of comments (including from myself) about getting stuck and unable to advance.

Race/Class skills are an interesting spin but they don't reliably help you overcome encounters. It's not like a traditional MMORPG where you can activate a skill every X seconds to assist your battles. Currently, I absolutely love the concept of the PvE campaign but I feel unless things are very carefully considered, players not as experienced in TCGs will be increasingly frustrated.

Edit: One way to mitigate this is to introduce side quests where rewards are a viable 'deck' that can be used against specific difficult encounters. It doesn't necessarily have to enter your collection and it allows more options. Do you wish to use this 'special' deck to fight this X? Or do you want to use your own deck? And then have rewards vary between both methods. The other advantage to this is that new players can then get a taste of what different deck styles are like or even use cards they don't currently have access to themselves.

Avaian
01-28-2016, 07:32 AM
I agree with a lot of what Kami said.

I think it would be a good idea to have some kind of difficulty rating on encounters. Knowing that an Encounter is supposed to be difficult would lessen the frustration for me.

Baigan
01-28-2016, 07:39 AM
I've noticed a nasty habit growing among veteran hex players both on the forums here and in-game. Players both new and old will remark that a specific encounter was challenging, in their own choice of words, and a number of vets, some well known players, will immediately interject that "____ is easy, cake, simple" etc. Most players understand that the more difficult encounters are puzzles that you must solve with the right deck and the expressed frustration is a player's inability to crack the puzzle reliably.

I don't really know why people have this need to rush to condescension. Offer a hint, or even ask if they want a hint if you don't want to spoil the experience of solving the puzzle for them. If you want to keep up the moniker of "best community in gaming" please continue to act like it. This has happened infrequently over the Xarlox encounter from the Arena, but now with so much more content, its a common occurrence. New and old players will look up to you a lot more if you offer a hand first instead of boosting your self-esteem.

+1.

I know what it's like to be frustrated in other contexts. The last thing I want to hear when I'm frustrated is that I'm wrong to feel that way with nothing that actually helps me make progress.

primer
01-28-2016, 07:41 AM
Yeah OP is right. This happened today with that boss from the knight of roses dungeon, the burning ogre thing. A guy says its hard etc. and straight away is met with 'what you on about its easy' Just a thing that happens i guess so we know how good that one guy is.

ryuukan
01-28-2016, 08:13 AM
If you take offense to this thread or scoff at it, please bear in mind the point is not to wave fingers at people. It's a reminder for the community to just try to be more polite in their interaction, especially with a large influx of new players. No one is obligated to help other players and everyone certainly has the right to put their own gaming time for themselves first, but if you choose to lend a hand, be nice about it?

kindmime
01-28-2016, 08:37 AM
@ KAMI, its only 2 days old. even in very established mmos people don't right strategies that quickly. Yes deck building is a skill and I think something that should be learned while going through the campaign. Do you want to just be given the information, "use this build this it will beat the encounter". I am sure a few people do and that will come. At what point does it become someone else playing the game for you? All of this is subjective. Me personally I stayed up all night despite the lag and finished the campaign so I couldn't read any strategy or hear anything and experience it first hand.

Now having those cards is a different conversation. I don't know if devs specifically ran a starter deck through all the dungeons and said it has to be doable for even the worst of deck. That would make it very boring when you use those power cards. There are always multiple sides to the argument. On the flip side they most likely did not tune it so even the most stacked deck as difficulty with these fights. They have the difficult position of finding a happy medium. Which is not true in traditional mmos like wow where you often need to farm gear weeks at a time to just have the gear to reach the dps needed to beat the final encounter. Would people prefer that to have to farm cards that might have lock outs to beat a boss?

On your second thing, yes the worst thing you can say to someone struggling with something is "oh that's so easy" its like a punch to the face. I am sure you can all remember a time you were on the opposite side of that statement as well. It is more like Oh that's so easy (to me).

Kami
01-28-2016, 08:47 AM
@ KAMI, its only 2 days old. even in very established mmos people don't right strategies that quickly. Yes deck building is a skill and I think something that should be learned while going through the campaign. Do you want to just be given the information, "use this build this it will beat the encounter". I am sure a few people do and that will come. At what point does it become someone else playing the game for you? All of this is subjective. Me personally I stayed up all night despite the lag and finished the campaign so I couldn't read any strategy or hear anything and experience it first hand.

My complaint is there is nothing to ease a player into it. As you agreed, deck-building is a skill. Where am I learning to be a better deck builder in the campaign? Trial and error alone doesn't cut it as it would be insane with the number of cards and combinations available.

If you are not good enough, you will literally be stuck - the starter deck default can only take you so far. And the campaign as it is right now, does little to teach you or show you how a viable deck should be. You're just given a starter deck, thrown some cards/packs/equipment and thrown in the thick of it with no guidance. I should not have to be funneled into fansites and 3rd-party sources to hope to advance in the game.

This is one of those situations where I, yes, I know this is crazy, HEX should take a look at Duels of the Planeswalkers and how it introduces the concept of deck building for their own variation of PvE.

Tazelbain
01-28-2016, 08:47 AM
Learning to build decks is part of progression so handing people decks is not going to help. It think especial early challenges like sea hag should have hints on the intro screen and option to go to deck building to adjust their deck.

Jormungandr
01-28-2016, 09:45 AM
I haven't played through the new tutorial. Is there any part of that that covers deck-building? Should there be? The problem is that every player will have a different available card pool pretty soon into the campaign, even players that start with the same race/class combination. So it's not like there can be specific hints for fights saying "Hey, this boss plays small numbers of powerful troops, so make sure to include those Kill spells you earned because they will be helpful in this encounter".

It might be neat to have someone in the town or outside the dungeon who will give you hints about what to expect with dungeon bosses, including some general strategies in deck-building that might help. I'm not sure how helpful that would be to new players, though, without specifics, which would be hard to do.

I also agree that it would be useful (like someone mentioned earlier in the thread) to mark some encounters as difficult just so that new players know that if they can't beat the encounter the first few tries, it's not necessarily because they are terrible at the game. This would mainly help with optional encounters, as encounters that you have to complete to progress your quests are still going to be ones you're interested in beating right away, even if they say they're hard.