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hitchslap88
01-28-2016, 10:34 AM
I've just started playing PVE with a Coyotle mage, and the talent that reduces the casting cost by 2 of one of the next 5 cards in your deck keeps hitting Holiday, which turns it into a dead card. If there were a creature with -1 casting cost the problem would go away.

Perhaps it could have some perpetual ability that increases its casting cost each turn, with a second ability that references its cost.

Thank you.

Vorpal
01-28-2016, 10:39 AM
Would a card with a -1 casting cost add temporary resources? I don't think it works that way for pterodactyls, for example.

Turtlewing
01-28-2016, 10:45 AM
I think a more reasonable change would be to have costs less than 0 become 0.

It would change the interaction between things that raise and lower cost at the extreme low end, but the game already treats negative costs as 0 when you cast them. May as well have it treat them as such elsewhere too.

Salverus
01-28-2016, 10:59 AM
negative attack / cost and such counts as 0, however it does not show 0 because it can make a difference.
For example if you have a troop with -5 cost time rippled, it will become -4 cost, whereas a troop with 0 cost would become 1 cost.
A talent to reduce cost for cards usually goes combined with a relatively expensive deck. Filling deck with low cost cards is then a bit pointless.

hitchslap88
01-28-2016, 11:33 AM
Any way to do it is fine with me. Got me thinking of what kind of troop would have a -1 Cost though. How about:

Bit-Chomp Berserker:
Cost: -1
R
Orc Warrior
Rare
3/1
Speed
Whenever you cast a spell, Bit-Chomp Berserker gets +1 cost in all zones.

Or

Ambush Artist
Cost:-1
DD
Coyotle Ranger
Rare
2/3
Quick
Whenever an opponent casts a spell, this gets Cost +1 in all zones. When this enters play, Troops you control get +1/+1 equal to Ambush Artist's Cost. Untap them.

PureVapes
01-28-2016, 11:55 AM
Interesting thought and quite a challenge to make it both balanced and functionally relevant. I think a 0 cost troop is already absurdly strong so it would need a drawback of sorts. Here is something that would work well in a suicide blood deck, but would be weak without proper support even though it's a free troop. Since troops never have negative base attack, the -1 starting point on the cost is needed to keep it balanced.


Bloodborne Vampire | -1 :blood:
Vampire Warrior

Lifedrain
While this is in your hand or in play, when you lose life, this gets cost +1.
This has +X/+X, where X is its cost.

0/2

hitchslap88
01-28-2016, 02:43 PM
The Ambusher may be a bit overpowered... Maybe a 1/2 instead of a 2/3, and I definitely meant to say "until end of turn" after the +x/+x ability.

In any case, I really like the idea of a card that has two perpetual effects--one always getting better, one always getting worse--where you can feel great when you get to cast it where the two lines converge.

Estar1
01-28-2016, 03:05 PM
While it is interesting to think of a -1 card it wont fix the original Holiday Issue. If a -2 Holiday transforms into a -1 creature it will end up being casting cost -3 and its next activation will create a -2 creature.

Koz
01-28-2016, 03:08 PM
The mage talent that decreases cost just needs to only be able to target cards of cost 1 or more...

pyrovoice
01-28-2016, 03:10 PM
or just change the power so it can hit only cards with at least a cost of 1 ? they already did this with others

Zophie
01-28-2016, 03:16 PM
Interesting thought and quite a challenge to make it both balanced and functionally relevant. I think a 0 cost troop is already absurdly strong so it would need a drawback of sorts. Here is something that would work well in a suicide blood deck, but would be weak without proper support even though it's a free troop. Since troops never have negative base attack, the -1 starting point on the cost is needed to keep it balanced.


Bloodborne Vampire | -1 :blood:
Vampire Warrior

Lifedrain
While this is in your hand or in play, when you lose life, this gets cost +1.
This has +X/+X, where X is its cost.

0/2

I really like this idea, it's definitely thinking outside of the box, but I think the concern then would be making this innately understandable to the majority of players, people might still get confused about the -1 cost and think they might gain resources by playing it. Good concept though.

Turtlewing
01-28-2016, 03:34 PM
I really like this idea, it's definitely thinking outside of the box, but I think the concern then would be making this innately understandable to the majority of players, people might still get confused about the -1 cost and think they might gain resources by playing it. Good concept though.

meh. That's a mistake you only make once. Also I imagine people already run into it in the wild with existing effects so it's not exactly a new problem.

hitchslap88
01-28-2016, 03:46 PM
While it is interesting to think of a -1 card it wont fix the original Holiday Issue. If a -2 Holiday transforms into a -1 creature it will end up being casting cost -3 and its next activation will create a -2 creature.

Didn't consider that...

Well, then i guess it'll need to be revert or druidic exoshaper, or a fix to the talent or Holiday. The talent is probably the simplest. Holiday is a very "mage" card, so i hope this fix is made. The talent has also hit my 0 cost Zodiac Blessing, so there are plenty of 0 cost cards currently floating around.

Zophie
01-28-2016, 05:03 PM
Best solution imo: Whenever a card attempts to create or transform to a random card of a specific cost, if no cards exist in the qualifying pool of cards matching that specific cost then it pulls a random card from the nearest costing card pools instead.

Showsni
01-28-2016, 05:23 PM
I thought my Holiday was going to turn into a Walking Calamity. It became a Firebreathing Wormoid...

Zophie
01-28-2016, 05:28 PM
I thought my Holiday was going to turn into a Walking Calamity. It became a Firebreathing Wormoid...

Haha, My Orson's Dream did that too once

Rendakor
01-28-2016, 05:32 PM
I don't think we need a new card with negative casting cost just to account for a single talent-card interaction rendering something useless. Just don't run Holiday if you're using that talent.

hitchslap88
01-28-2016, 08:26 PM
I don't think we need a new card with negative casting cost just to account for a single talent-card interaction rendering something useless. Just don't run Holiday if you're using that talent. Well, as I mentioned, the talent can also hit Zodiac Blessing, which is a 0-cost PVE card that Coyotle REALLY want to include in their decks. There's likely to be more 0-cost cards in the game, so they might as well fix the problem early.

But we already figured out that the -1 casting cost card wouldn't help the original problem anyway since Holiday doesn't revert when it transforms.

Bombs
01-28-2016, 10:33 PM
They could just make a -1 cost 1/1 PvE only troop that is unattainable by players but exists within the card pool of the database that random transformation effects pulls from.

Zophie
01-29-2016, 12:21 AM
They could just make a -1 cost 1/1 PvE only troop that is unattainable by players but exists within the card pool of the database that random transformation effects pulls from.

They could be like Bizarro Entrath (htartnE?) versions of troops of the positive value of the negative cost. So -1 would have like Bizarro Baby Yetis and -3 has Bizarro Phenteos, etc

Yoss
01-29-2016, 06:51 PM
or just change the power so it can hit only cards with at least a cost of 1 ? they already did this with others

This.

Seluhir
01-29-2016, 07:31 PM
Probably the easiest solution would be to just code holiday so it can't try to pull from 0 or less pools.(ie. at least cost of 1).

That being said, I'd be totally down for cards with negative cost. Be a neat space to explore.