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View Full Version : 150 card + decks are unbearable to play in PvE



nicosharp
01-30-2016, 10:53 AM
I'd really like to see this addressed.
Part of the beauty of this digital TCG, and the options you want to see players use, is in the variety. In this specific scenario: JankBot decks, or Dwarf/Clerics with blessings, or Spider themed decks lack the ability to flow in the game due to processing lag. I don't know why the additional cards on the table cause so much in-game processing lag.

Friend of JankBot trait is a joke.. My Dwarf/Cleric right now, pumps his deck beyond 150 cards on turn 2, and then it takes me 3minutes or so to play each turn. In the time it's taken me to nearly clear the dream dungeon, I beat nearly 3/4ths of the campaign with an Orc Warrior....

It's very frustrating that this was not addressed and fixed after it was brought to the attention of everyone after the release of set2 / the Arena.

Zurai
01-30-2016, 01:00 PM
I agree that Jank Bot decks are terrible right now, but not because of lag. Lag affects every single deck; I was playing a standard 60 card deck last night and was still having turns take 5-10 minutes because of lag. They're terrible because the balance for playing 150 card decks is that you get to play 4 Jank Bots. Unfortunately, especially at low levels, you don't actually get to play 4 Jank Bots in the campaign right now. It really feels like the shard grid should be relaxed a bit for larger decks. Say, if you have 100+ cards in the deck you get +1 to all your shard grid (to a max of 4) and if you have 150+ cards you have another +1 (still to a max of 4).

Eetabee
01-30-2016, 01:11 PM
This explains a lot. I thought I just had the same lag from the past few days. Its a bummer too because I was really enjoying my Jank Bot deck even with only 1 Jank Bot. I guess I will revisit it once this issue is fixed.

whiteyzz
01-31-2016, 02:50 AM
There is so many garbage talents, or things that need to be worked out or rethought I mean... Necrotic?

One WHOLE Hp for every 8 shards

24 Blood shards = 1 HP

12 Blood shards + 12 diamond shards = 2 hp

10 Blood Shards + 10 Diamond shards + 4 B/D Shards = 2 hp

8 Blood Shards + 8 Diamond shards + 8 Ruby shards = 3 hp

4 Blood Shards + 4 Diamond Shards + 4 Ruby Shards + 4 B/D Shards + 4 D/R Shards + 4 R/B Shards = 0 hp

Necrotic Cleric: Get Armor 1.... okay guys so let me get it straight I'm just a bad dwarf cleric

Necrotic Mage: Pay 7 SP to take the top card of their deck and not play it because it's not your shard AND THE FIELD GOES WIIIILD FOR WORST MAGE TALENT PERIOD.

Then Efficient... 2% more gold, which is 1% then the human one, and 3 % less then the vennen one... the problem with extra exp/gold talents is... to net 1,000 gold form my talent.

100 = 2 Gold
1000 = 20 Gold
10,000 = 200 Gold
100,000 = 2,000 Gold

So every 50k I make 1k extra gold, it does add up sure... but it's such a boring talent that just makes you go... okay if i want to grind gold i run Vennen because at 50k they've made 2.5k gold. Or the elf one which is a 25% chance for the random star dust after a dungeon completion they have a 25% chance to get 750 - 10k gold. This would take my necrotic to make 50k-500k Gold before i got that bonus.

But let's say a dungeon run was 1k for the whole run , and we did 100 runs to get 100k. 25 x 750 = 18,750 vs 2% = 2000,3000,5000.

That is if the dungeon only gave him common star dusts by the way so with the math done, mathematically speaking the best gold (heck it's easier to convert star dust to platinum too). It's simply better to pick elf for gold farming.

Honestly IMO there is so many poorly designed talents... elf win for the most poorly designed powerful ones

#1 in gold gain talents
#1 in starting health talents

and a taster for the finer things... REALLY? This isn't a oh pay to win to be a good elf, doing this to a deck is a joke for you if you farm dungeons but look at it like this. Warriors pay 7 hp for this mechanic... elfs just go whoops i sprinkled some dust and run some rare and I get it

so Elf = 6 Hp + 2 Charge Points + Best gold gaining talent in the game.

Necrotic need a whole rework, honestly the only thing that looks remotely good is +2 talents, but is that really worth having such garbage traits?

Dwarf just needs to change friend of jank bot

Elf needs to be hit by a rework of 2 of it's talents

Human/Necrotic/Elf/Vennen just honestly remove their money gaining talents they're just so honestly boring compared to the ones that make you go oh hey maybe i should make my deck like this to get this effect...

LargoLaGrande
01-31-2016, 08:07 AM
Necrotic need a whole rework, honestly the only thing that looks remotely good is +2 talents, but is that really worth having such garbage traits?


Yes.

nicosharp
01-31-2016, 08:40 AM
I haven't had a look at Necrotic yet. I just want to clarify that this post was not about criticism about the PvE Talent Tree and Racial Attributes. It was criticism about the game not being playable once a deck goes above 60 cards... I mean, 100 is not too bad, but 150 adds about 20x-30x time to all priority passes.

frychikn
01-31-2016, 09:17 AM
their starting rare from the tutorial also is pretty poor imo.

Tinfoil
01-31-2016, 09:55 AM
Guys - Necrotic have the best possibilities to play 3+ shards. That flexibility will give them a HUGE advantage later in the campaign. Maybe some talents needs tweaking, but it is very early in the campaign still.

Nico - it sounds like a memory leak that will probably be fixed in the next patch.

redman2112
01-31-2016, 10:07 AM
I completely disagree. I've been playing a Dwarf Warrior as my second character and have decided it is my jank bot champion. When used with the free talent that gives you 2 charges you almost automatically can use your charge power which helps immensely against rush type decks. I have a wide collection of cards so this might be why I like the 150 deck ideas cause I get to use a lot of the cards I have. But I can understand that for a newer player it is hard to take advantage of this racial talent. As to the lag problem: I have not experienced any lag difference between a deck with 150 cards or a deck with 60 cards.

wolzarg
01-31-2016, 10:09 AM
Yes.
Honestly i can agree with this two points could be a massive deal at max.

wolzarg
01-31-2016, 10:10 AM
I completely disagree. I've been playing a Dwarf Warrior as my second character and have decided it is my jank bot champion. When used with the free talent that gives you 2 charges you almost automatically can use your charge power which helps immensely against rush type decks. I have a wide collection of cards so this might be why I like the 150 deck ideas cause I get to use a lot of the cards I have. But I can understand that for a newer player it is hard to take advantage of this racial talent. As to the lag problem: I have not experienced any lag difference between a deck with 150 cards or a deck with 60 cards.
Warrior is probably the only one this is worth on and its still debatable if its not just better to be a shin'hare and have a 1 cheaper fight every single time.

nicosharp
01-31-2016, 10:15 AM
I completely disagree. I've been playing a Dwarf Warrior as my second character and have decided it is my jank bot champion. When used with the free talent that gives you 2 charges you almost automatically can use your charge power which helps immensely against rush type decks. I have a wide collection of cards so this might be why I like the 150 deck ideas cause I get to use a lot of the cards I have. But I can understand that for a newer player it is hard to take advantage of this racial talent. As to the lag problem: I have not experienced any lag difference between a deck with 150 cards or a deck with 60 cards.

I like the talent too redman. I think the difference is in the lag we are experiencing. If it was playable for me to run 150 cards. I would. Currently every experience I've had with the deck at 150 cards has been unbearable via lag. "the joke" is that for whatever reason, my connection/latency to the HEX servers is greatly effected by attempting to play with a deck of that size.

Silvanos
01-31-2016, 12:04 PM
I have experienced similar problems with the gnome quest. Though it could just be the servers strangely slowing at the exact same time. I transported 20 gnomes and the game was so slow I wanted to quit.

whiteyzz
01-31-2016, 12:06 PM
Guys - Necrotic have the best possibilities to play 3+ shards. That flexibility will give them a HUGE advantage later in the campaign. Maybe some talents needs tweaking, but it is very early in the campaign still.

Nico - it sounds like a memory leak that will probably be fixed in the next patch.

So if I play 3+ shards i get 0 hp from my passive, so no you're wrong they're best at playing 2 colors and getting 2 hp from it

jojobusta
01-31-2016, 12:48 PM
I tried running 100 cards coyote and 150 cards dwarf decks but game was running very, very slow and i reduced decks to 60 cards. Now the problem is dwarfs is the desert quest, spending 15 minutes per battle when you take 30 dwarfs is not ok, if game cant handle it dont make me do it pls.

nicosharp
01-31-2016, 12:57 PM
So if I play 3+ shards i get 0 hp from my passive, so no you're wrong they're best at playing 2 colors and getting 2 hp from it
I'm fairly sure the passive has less to do with what Tinfoil is addressing than the Shard Restrictions.



4 Blood Shards + 4 Diamond Shards + 4 Ruby Shards + 4 B/D Shards + 4 D/R Shards + 4 R/B Shards = 0 hp

After looking hard at this class and its early talents - I'd say this is the only thing in need of a change. Dual shards should count.

Fateanomaly
01-31-2016, 08:55 PM
I also think some of the racials need to be rethinked.

The ones that gets its bonus based on the deck are too restrictive . Make it so that there is more ways to get it like say "or 40% of your deck is of same race" or give a regular deck a lesser bonus.

The farming traits are also just boring.

Brjuntinaar
01-31-2016, 09:17 PM
Just to address some of the earlier criticisms of necrotic mage earlier in the thread: I made a necrotic 5 color mage and had a ball with the necrotic spell. It is EXTREMELY powerful (i.e. broken) against AI players with good decks, so long as you have ways to cast it consistently. Against wiktor for example, you could steal, say, power of blood / ruby, and wreck face. It's repeatable card draw for free, at less of a charge cost than any current champion in the game, and with the ability to grab super broken cards to boot.


I also think some of the racials need to be rethinked.

The ones that gets its bonus based on the deck are too restrictive . Make it so that there is more ways to get it like say "or 40% of your deck is of same race" or give a regular deck a lesser bonus.

The farming traits are also just boring.
Also, I haven't tried a dwarf yet, so I possibly shouldn't speak, but it really seems like they powered up the other dwarf abilities to compensate for the jank bot one. The electrostun ability, for instance, seems stupid good, having a constant armor as a racial trait is very strong, etc..

Ertzi
02-01-2016, 04:35 AM
Just to address some of the earlier criticisms of necrotic mage earlier in the thread: I made a necrotic 5 color mage and had a ball with the necrotic spell. It is EXTREMELY powerful (i.e. broken) against AI players with good decks, so long as you have ways to cast it consistently. Against wiktor for example, you could steal, say, power of blood / ruby, and wreck face. It's repeatable card draw for free, at less of a charge cost than any current champion in the game, and with the ability to grab super broken cards to boot.


Also, I haven't tried a dwarf yet, so I possibly shouldn't speak, but it really seems like they powered up the other dwarf abilities to compensate for the jank bot one. The electrostun ability, for instance, seems stupid good, having a constant armor as a racial trait is very strong, etc..

I chose Dwarf as my second character purely because of Electrostun ^_^. I have had a million games where I just thought "just don't play anything good for one turn..." How about making them not play ANYTHING for one turn. Seems insane, but we'll see. You might also have just talked me into playing Necrotic Mage next. Mostly because Mage + 5 colors seems just so... right.

Brjuntinaar
02-01-2016, 09:26 AM
I chose Dwarf as my second character purely because of Electrostun ^_^. I have had a million games where I just thought "just don't play anything good for one turn..." How about making them not play ANYTHING for one turn. Seems insane, but we'll see. You might also have just talked me into playing Necrotic Mage next. Mostly because Mage + 5 colors seems just so... right.
I can share my decklist with you if you are interested. The main things you need to make it work are the good 5 color necrotics such as Lixil, Midnight Shepherd, and Forgotten monarch, and efficient kill spells / board wipes (which work fine because some of your creatures can survive them, while you can bring back whatever dies). However, here's a spoiler: most clutch card for necrotic mage is Murmurs from the Void. Combined with your hero power, it reads: put the opponent's best creature into your hand, pay 1 to mill 5 cards (which is also relevant with all of your recursion).

Ertzi
02-01-2016, 10:37 AM
I can share my decklist with you if you are interested. The main things you need to make it work are the good 5 color necrotics such as Lixil, Midnight Shepherd, and Forgotten monarch, and efficient kill spells / board wipes (which work fine because some of your creatures can survive them, while you can bring back whatever dies). However, here's a spoiler: most clutch card for necrotic mage is Murmurs from the Void. Combined with your hero power, it reads: put the opponent's best creature into your hand, pay 1 to mill 5 cards (which is also relevant with all of your recursion).

Thanks for the offer. I want to try my own brew at first, because making the decks is half the fun for me. You can definitely help me if I get stuck though. :) I'll try to remember the Murmurs bit!

Dwarf is first though. Just had an epic battle with Sister Midnight's W/R variant. I lost, but it was one of the most fun games I have ever had in HEX. It came down to a 1/6 chance of killing my own troop with Alchemy Lab, and of course I did. :D Destroyed her in the rematch, so take that, Sister! My dwarves have many weird win cons, but the deck is sloooow. I'm having a blast however and that is most important. This deck won't cut it in the later dungeons, but I will run it as long as I can. Just found my first Adaptatron too <3

Brjuntinaar
02-01-2016, 10:53 AM
Thanks for the offer. I want to try my own brew at first, because making the decks is half the fun for me. You can definitely help me if I get stuck though. :) I'll try to remember the Murmurs bit!

Dwarf is first though. Just had an epic battle with Sister Midnight's W/R variant. I lost, but it was one of the most fun games I have ever had in HEX. It came down to a 1/6 chance of killing my own troop with Alchemy Lab, and of course I did. :D Destroyed her in the rematch, so take that, Sister! My dwarves have many weird win cons, but the deck is sloooow. I'm having a blast however and that is most important. This deck won't cut it in the later dungeons, but I will run it as long as I can. Just found my first Adaptatron too <3

Haha nice! Same here with regard to deckbuilding...that's pretty much 95% of what I derive enjoyment from in this game.

loopholist3
02-01-2016, 01:56 PM
Then Efficient... 2% more gold, which is 1% then the human one, and 3 % less then the vennen one... the problem with extra exp/gold talents is... to net 1,000 gold form my talent.

The purpose of efficient is the experience increase not the gold increase. The gold is just there to ensure that the skill isn't useless once you hit level 30. By the time you hit level 15, all of the other players are going to be 13 or 14, so you will be playing content with 3 or 4 talent points more than your peers.

From there the effect snowballs, because more talents means more power, more power means you complete content faster. Faster content completion means faster experience gain.

Vorpal
02-02-2016, 09:59 AM
I feel like friend of jankbot needs to be moved to 100, to match all the other effects.

Zurai
02-02-2016, 02:21 PM
I feel like friend of jankbot needs to be moved to 100, to match all the other effects.

That kinda misses the point since you literally cannot use Jank Bots unless you have 150 cards in your deck.

Vorpal
02-02-2016, 03:33 PM
That's fine. The entire rest of the game sets the 'big deck' size at 100. Making dwarves have to go to 150 reduces most of those 'big deck' perks for them significantly.

sukebe
02-02-2016, 03:43 PM
So if I play 3+ shards i get 0 hp from my passive, so no you're wrong they're best at playing 2 colors and getting 2 hp from it

You do not get +hp for having actual shards in your deck. You get the HP for having 8+ cards of each shard in your deck. This can be done easily with the multishard necrotic and using almost entirely non-basic shards.