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GuruGuru214
02-13-2016, 07:31 PM
So DIsForDoom and I have been wanting to assemble our personal rankings for a while now, and the recent influx of discussion on the topic has pushed us to finally assemble an order. We felt a new thread was in order to explain the specifics of how our group plays and how we arrived at these rankings.

First off, we play with two characters. We've liked the variant from the start. We like the strategy of creating an effective combination. So while we largely ranked the characters based on their own abilities, a few characters landed in a different spot due to potential synergy with others.

Second, we don't play 1-on-1 games. In the past, we almost always played with four, but most of our games are three these days. This has a pretty decent impact on certain characters.

We tiered the cards from 0-10 and ranked them within those groups.

10
Cyborg (Crisis) - Permanently Banned
Harley Quinn
Green Arrow
Shazam! (Crisis) - Permanently Banned

9
Starfire (HU)
Sinestro
Ozymandias
Red Robin
Wonder Woman
Red Lantern Supergirl
Dr. Manhattan

8
Aquaman
Batgirl
Lex Luthor
Superboy
Rorschach
Felicity Smoak
Power Girl
Sara Lance
Chameleon Boy
Batman (12)

7
The Joker (12)
Black Manta
Jay Garrick
Black Adam
Bane
Kyle Rayner
Green Lantern
Animal Man
Hawkman
Owl Man
Batman
Black Canary
Wildcat
Indigo-1
Martian Manhunter

6
Superman
The Comedian
Constantine
Cyborg
Red Tornado
Wonder Girl
Nightwing
Raven
Booster Gold
Stargirl
John Diggle
Starfire (Crisis)
White Lantern Deadman
Beast Boy
Cosmic Boy
Shazam!

5
Swamp Thing
The Joker
Martian Manhunter (Crisis)
Red Tornado (Crisis)
Lightning Lad
Saturn Girl
Zatanna Zatara
Bizarro
Oliver Queen
Wonder Woman (Crisis)
Batman (9)
The Joker (9)
Phantom Girl
Kid Flash

4
Doctor Fate
Hawkman (Crisis)
Deathstroke
Mister Terrific
Silk Spectre
Saint Walker
Starfire (TT)
The Flash
Blue Beetle

3
Alan Scott
Roy Harper
Skitter
Batman (Crisis)
Aquaman (Crisis)
Brainiac 5

2
Star Sapphire
Robin
Booster Gold (Crisis)

1
The Flash (Crisis)
Superman (Crisis)
Batgirl (Crisis)
Nightwing (Crisis)
Green Lantern (Crisis)

0 - Totally Powerless
Black Canary (Crisis)
Batman (15)
The Joker (15)

bigtipper
02-13-2016, 09:49 PM
Gotta hand it to Cryptozoic, they sure pumped out a TON of Oversized Characters!

Are you ranking the characters to their Sets/Crossovers or to a specific set of cards?

For instance, some of the Time Travel OS Characters do much better when using the Legion Crossover pack, compared to when there are no Time Travel cards in the game.

Cyninja1
02-13-2016, 10:38 PM
It's hard to rank based on two character variant and definitely you have to be specific which core set are you using or a mix of everything. Imagine a game played by 3 players, player 1 plays as Green Arrow and Wonder Woman, player 2 as The Flash and Star Sapphire, player 3 as Batman and Deathstroke in Heroes Unite set. The outcome is 90% already decided. The combination varies differently as we have played a lot of 2 character variant before by random selection, certainly was a lot of fun, but the combinations of characters and what core set you play is the ultimate factor. Just my two cents. Big fan of the game.

DIsForDoom
02-13-2016, 11:04 PM
All of the ratings aren't made with a specific game in mind. When making the ranking we based it on an Over Sized's ability to work in any given set. Bizarro is ridiculous in Forever Evil but not nearly as good in any other set. We play in a manner where we ban and draft and based on that one of the players chooses the main set, another the add on (a crisis and a crossover), and another player chooses what villain stack is used.

As for balance, the game is not balanced the same as single hero but we've found out that there is still a balance in the game with how we play. While your example is that of a rather out of balance game. With the draft system it's actually rare anyone gets Green Arrows. We run a round of banning before picking then a second round of bans before everyone picks their second hero. It causes people to start by banning what they're completely worried about facing and then counter banning based on initial picks.

GuruGuru214
02-13-2016, 11:45 PM
All of the ratings aren't made with a specific game in mind. When making the ranking we based it on an Over Sized's ability to work in any given set. Bizarro is ridiculous in Forever Evil but not nearly as good in any other set. We play in a manner where we ban and draft and based on that one of the players chooses the main set, another the add on (a crisis and a crossover), and another player chooses what villain stack is used.

Exactly. Another example is Phantom Girl. She cleans up when the Crossover 3 cards are in play. Without them, she's entirely useless without another Crossover 3 Super Hero to support her. Se we ranked her somewhere between the two.

Also, since we started keeping track, we've used the base sets fairly evenly, with Teen Titans having seen a couple more games than the rest. For some reason, we've used Crisis 2 as much as Crisis 1 and Rivals combined. And we tend to favor Crossover 1 a bit over the rest, though we've only had one game with Crossover 4 that was competitive and not Hidden Roles.


As for balance, the game is not balanced the same as single hero but we've found out that there is still a balance in the game with how we play. While your example is that of a rather out of balance game. With the draft system it's actually rare anyone gets Green Arrows. We run a round of banning before picking then a second round of bans before everyone picks their second hero. It causes people to start by banning what they're completely worried about facing and then counter banning based on initial picks.

For example, we had a game last month where I saw that the other three players had chosen Raven, Heroes Unite Starfire, and Superboy. That's a high demand for Super Powers, so I knew I didn't want to put up with Power Girl, and someone else banned The Joker (12). We had another game where our third player picked Indigo-1, so DIsForDoom banned Wildcat.

So yes, it's a variant that absolutely changes gameplay quite a bit, but we enjoy it, and we consider pre-game ban/pick strategy to be a crucial part of the way we play.

Akatzukilord
02-14-2016, 04:26 AM
Is there a reason why Booster Gold (Crisis) is ranked higher then Flash/Superman (Crisis). Both are really bad but at least you get to draw a card. I would rank him the same as Black Canary (Crisis), because he doesnt do anything for you in competitve play :)
Also is there a combination to make Power Girl viable? I used to rank her as a Low/Bottom Tier character. She is just a worse version of Superman.

LRoq617
02-14-2016, 07:31 AM
Is there a reason why Booster Gold (Crisis) is ranked higher then Flash/Superman (Crisis). Both are really bad but at least you get to draw a card. I would rank him the same as Black Canary (Crisis), because he doesnt do anything for you in competitve play :)
Also is there a combination to make Power Girl viable? I used to rank her as a Low/Bottom Tier character. She is just a worse version of Superman.

This. I was wondering the same thing in regards to Booster Gold, since I don't see how he isn't ranked the universal worst Crisis character for competitive play. His ability does absolutely nothing for you, as it can only be triggered to defend others. Even Green Lantern is able to defend himself (though he's still really bad and deserves his ranking).

For Power Girl, she synergizes well with any character that can discard Punches for their ability (Batgirl, Chameleon Boy, White Lantern Deadman), characters that can add Time Travel to the lineup (Saturn Girl, Lightning Lad, Cosmic Boy), or characters that aren't doing much but playing Kicks anyway (Superman, Dr. Manhattan, Black Adam).

DIsForDoom
02-14-2016, 08:16 AM
Power Girl synergizes with a lot of heroes rather well and as LRoq pointed out she is very hard to plan against. She returns a vital card for certain heroes and can help maintain a card advantage or cause one. While generating power is nice she does more than just generate power.

While Crisis Booster Gold isn't very useful there are strategies he works for, I honestly was thinking a 1 but for whatever reason decided to put him one higher. As opposed to Crisis Nightwing he has more than one pair. While it's nice to see what's on top of everyone's decks unless you're Rorschach that doesn't really help. I agree that drawing a card is helpful but it's rather large draw requirements. Honestly I probably placed him there for the fact that he has 3 solid pair options and is great for trolling the other players. I actually personally trolled a Sinestro this way and kept them from gaining any vp all game. Didn't matter if they had a targeted attack or if it hit everyone, I blocked for myself and the other player to deny satisfaction. I've also found that this greatly helps in games that get slowed down by harsh attacks. It's a personal choice and I probably should have it a little lower but versus someone trolling you it's frustrating.

Akatzukilord
02-14-2016, 08:40 AM
You would still need two defense cards to block for yourself and another player which is unlikely to happen. Also you dont gain any effects of defense cards if you discard for Booster Gold Crisis. So you are just minus 1 Card. If he would at least trigger defense cards he wouldnt be too bad. In my opinion he is just the worse with Black Canary Crisis.

GuruGuru214
02-14-2016, 01:20 PM
The fact of the matter is that he does actually have an ability that functions in some way. That alone is enough to keep him out of the 0 tier. The three cards in there have absolutely zero function outside of specific game modes. So Crisis Booster Gold is at least a 1. We put him where we did because he does have at least some potential to shake up the game in some way without being too hard to trigger, where Crisis Superman and Crisis The Flash are just really difficult triggers for really low reward.

LRoq617
02-14-2016, 01:25 PM
The fact of the matter is that he does actually have an ability that functions in some way. That alone is enough to keep him out of the 0 tier. The three cards in there have absolutely zero function outside of specific game modes. So Crisis Booster Gold is at least a 1. We put him where we did because he does have at least some potential to shake up the game in some way without being too hard to trigger, where Crisis Superman and Crisis The Flash are just really difficult triggers for really low reward.

By that reasoning, Crisis Black Canary has a functional ability as well. It's a strictly worse version of a better ability (Black Manta), but it still actually does something.

GuruGuru214
02-14-2016, 02:03 PM
No, it doesn't. Crisis Black Canary's ability doesn't function outside of Crisis mode. Since you don't normally destroy Villains when you purchase them, you can't put them on bottom instead of destroying them. She's an entirely dead card in competitive play.

Akatzukilord
02-14-2016, 02:48 PM
The fact of the matter is that he does actually have an ability that functions in some way. That alone is enough to keep him out of the 0 tier. The three cards in there have absolutely zero function outside of specific game modes. So Crisis Booster Gold is at least a 1. We put him where we did because he does have at least some potential to shake up the game in some way without being too hard to trigger, where Crisis Superman and Crisis The Flash are just really difficult triggers for really low reward.

Superman Crisis is not a good draw character but he has some potential too. If you pair him with someone like Starfire you can get a some synergy. You just have to grab some Super Powers and buy lot of kicks. In mid to late game you will trigger quite often and potentially get two draws which isnt to bad. I think it is still better and easier to trigger Superman Crisis than to troll a Sinestro player because you would still need two defense cards and you dont gain any advantage aside from trolling :D
On the other hand The Flash Crisis is really difficult to trigger even in two character games.
Just my opinion guys ;)

gerrymul
02-15-2016, 11:16 AM
Still don't see Booster Crisis as having any playability in competitive play. When would you ever want to defend someone else in competitive play??

Carthain
02-16-2016, 08:56 AM
gerrymul: Here's a completely fabricated situation, but ... could theoretically happen.

Someone plays "Attack: Gain two weakness cards" -- one of the players attacked is Bizarro. So you can defend for that player so they don't get the weaknesses (and thus don't get to draw another card.) Probably not the best of plays, but you could do it.

Or, in the same situation and there's only 2 weakness cards left, but you want the 2nd player attacked to gain them (perhaps they are further ahead) then you can defend for the 1st player so that there is still weakness cards to give to the 2nd player.

Odds of that happening aren't high -- but it's not too hard to come up with scenarios where you might want to block for someone else.

LexLuthorJr
02-16-2016, 12:12 PM
This is why in my play group we just don't use the Crisis Super Heroes for a competitive game. They just don't translate well.