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View Full Version : Hex PVE, Mulligans and Coin Flip



whiteyzz
02-16-2016, 01:04 AM
I'm going to ask on the "OVERWORLD" not dungeons/hardcore mode, are either things really needed?

1. Mulligans, is it really important to have our card hand lower, when ever it gets to the point where i get 2 bad hands I just reset the game anyways. What is the point of mulligans... I could see some counter points but i have criticism.

Oh well people are going to wait for the perfect hand!

A. You don't know if you will have the perfect draw, you could have a great hand... 3 mana and a turn 1/2/3/4 drop but only get shards for the next 10 turns and he dropped a field wipe? The opponent also get's the same rule he can mulligan with no penalty

and

B. the fights like Piranha / AOM6 / Ect, pretty much require you to have the perfect hand to win so you know instead of
Start Fight -> Bad hand -> Mulligan -> Bad hand -> Mulligan -> Concede -> Repeat it will be

Start Fight -> Bad Hand -> Mulligan til you get the hand that is needed to win x fight

Now coin flips, this is another useless too for fights like Piranha/AOM6/Ect, you need every advantage you can get so Turn 1 advantage is again another thing you have to reset. Making for even more closes with the above but I can see even more counter points.

Well then the opponent will never have the advantage...!

A. Who says you get to chose who goes first every encounter maybe it's predetermined, if they wanted to make a fight harder and you get jumped vs you getting the jump on the battle field could be picked from the correct choice or predetermined.

B. In the hard fights I named above, again getting the first turn is pretty much advantageous and increases your chances of winning. Pretty much on these fights are won at the coin toss, you can win going second but the odds aren't in your favor

Turn 1P: Play 1/1 like say spirit bound spy
Turn 1AI: Plays out it's 5 Piranha's
Turn 2P: Play a 1/3 or 1/2 with FS
Turn 2AI: attacks with the five, you now take out 2 piranha's only taking 6 damage, He plays 2 plus uses his ability now he has 9 Piranha's (3 2/1's and 6 1/1's). The next turn is 21 damage if unblocked.

now if you don't go first

Turn 1AI: Plays 5 piranha's
Turn 1P: Play spirit bound spy
Turn 2AI: Attacks you remove 1 piranha taking 8 damage, he will play his 2 piranha's +4 from skill having a total of 10 Piranha's (4 2/1's and 6 1/1's). The next turn is 24 damage if left unblocked.

Obviously for talents like the warrior if you always go last, you always go last, and likewise with going first if a talent says you go first you go first.

Yoss
02-16-2016, 10:19 AM
While your logic is correct in some sense, you're missing a key component: time. The time investment required to repeatedly reset until you hit a god hand is part of the payment. If you're taking that away, then why even bother with cards? Taken to its logical conclusion, your argument would eventually mean that we just get any hand we want and always play first.

Turtlewing
02-16-2016, 12:44 PM
I think the single free mulligan was a compromise.

In the AZ nodes there's no reason to have the standard mulligan system at all as there's no consequence to conceding (other than time), but they want the behavior to be consistent with dungeons where the mulligan rules matter (because you lose a life if you concede) and mulligan until you get a perfect hand is not supposed to be a viable strategy for dungeons.

As for going first, I think the choice is less clear cut than you present. I've almost never felt like I won or lost because of going first. usually if the game is close enough that turn order matters there's been at least one point where a better draw would have won it for me a turn faster. So while going first might also have done the job I don't think it's really as huge an advantage as it get presented.

whiteyzz
02-17-2016, 12:04 PM
I think the single free mulligan was a compromise.

In the AZ nodes there's no reason to have the standard mulligan system at all as there's no consequence to conceding (other than time), but they want the behavior to be consistent with dungeons where the mulligan rules matter (because you lose a life if you concede) and mulligan until you get a perfect hand is not supposed to be a viable strategy for dungeons.

As for going first, I think the choice is less clear cut than you present. I've almost never felt like I won or lost because of going first. usually if the game is close enough that turn order matters there's been at least one point where a better draw would have won it for me a turn faster. So while going first might also have done the job I don't think it's really as huge an advantage as it get presented.

Again that's why you could at the first dungeon say, hey you have a limit to how many times you can mulligan now. Again the fights where turn order really matter are slim and the optional fights, but that's why I feel like player choice would make it more interesting then a coin flip. Making you chose which one is better for you, okay I get to go first but the AI is rested and prepared and maybe gets a few charge points... or I start second but i get an extra charge point or two, make it change for each encounter. You can craft harder and harder fights if the player want's turn 1 advantage every time.

Really the only fights that make mulligan/coin flip rule bothersome is Piranha's and AOM6. While unlimited might be to much for the majority of the fights, maybe 3 mulligans on the overworld / 1 in dungeon? and unlimited for AOM6/Piranha's which pretty much require a specific hand to even win those not in your odds fights.