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View Full Version : set cycle in constructed format : your wishes ?



Gregangel
02-28-2016, 05:52 AM
Well, i played Hex since set 3 release. So right now it's a bit expensive to jump in constructed format if you want some kind of deck diversity in your disposal.

I really hope, set 1 and 2 will be gone with the released of set 5. Il would be a good move to lure new players and to hold back the players base lured by the pve content (if Hexe give us some news about set cycle rules soon)... and to incite older players like me to invest in the game.

After set 5, i hope a set every 4 months and 3 sets books/block. 2 last books allowed in constructed format.


Your wishes on that matter?

Elwinz
02-28-2016, 06:17 AM
Rotating at set 5 is terrible idea. Why? We suffer from problem when meta is to stale because theyrs only 3sets available. We will be stil in the same boat in that case.

Gregangel
02-28-2016, 06:58 AM
Yes maybe but in the other hand, 2 set out will be more a kick in the meta and with a set every 4 months stale state would be short, no ?

And after that point we will never get less than 4 sets in the standard and up to 6.

Tazelbain
02-28-2016, 08:50 AM
The block concept is dumb. Ditch it, 5 set rolling rotation. 1 leaves when 6 enters. 2 leaves with 7.

x78089
02-28-2016, 08:55 AM
That seems like it would work. Whatever they decide they just need to tell us, so we know what to expect.

Gregangel
02-28-2016, 09:00 AM
there is some mechanic synergy, some archetype logic and and lore inside two or 3 sets in a row. That's defend the concept of blocks and why sets of a same block must be dismissed together.

wolzarg
02-28-2016, 09:56 AM
Well, i played Hex since set 3 release. So right now it's a bit expensive to jump in constructed format if you want some kind of deck diversity in your disposal.

I really hope, set 1 and 2 will be gone with the released of set 5. Il would be a good move to lure new players and to hold back the players base lured by the pve content (if Hexe give us some news about set cycle rules soon)... and to incite older players like me to invest in the game.

After set 5, i hope a set every 4 months and 3 sets books/block. 2 last books allowed in constructed format.


Your wishes on that matter?

I'm not sure what i think about formats that small but it could be interesting i guess. But your point of attracting new players just doesn't work because they would be exactly where you are now two packs behind.

magic_gazz
02-28-2016, 10:58 AM
The block concept is dumb. Ditch it, 5 set rolling rotation. 1 leaves when 6 enters. 2 leaves with 7.

I could get behind this. Something different to what other games are doing and would shake up the meta every set instead of every two sets.

Jemy000
02-28-2016, 03:57 PM
I love the rolling sets idea. Sure, blocks have mechanical themes, but most of the cards stand alone just fine. The few that don't can be duds for awhile just like the many cards printed that aren't viable at all in constructed.

Timlagor
02-28-2016, 05:25 PM
I want sets to retire as late as possible.

The existence of expensive cards is considered a good thing I believe. Constructed will always have a barrier to entry.

sukebe
02-28-2016, 05:52 PM
I would be pleased if we had 2 or 3 chapters (aka blocks) at a time as legal. Probably would not hurt to have a base set with fairly basic cards as well. I know there is a lot of hate for mtg here but I have always enjoyed how they handled their standard format. If they did have a base set I think 2 chapters would work fine with it (so we would have ~7 sets at a time, excluding these first 2 chapters that have only 2 sets each). If we have no base set then I think 3 chapters at a time would work well enough.

On a personal note is it hard to write "chapters" instead of blocks for anyone else? I want to get the terminology right so I am going back and correcting it but I still seem to need more practice :-)

magic_gazz
02-28-2016, 07:20 PM
No base sets please. They were so bad in MTG. Getting rid of them was one of the few correct things they have done.

sukebe
02-28-2016, 07:52 PM
No base sets please. They were so bad in MTG. Getting rid of them was one of the few correct things they have done.

base sets mean they do not need to reprint staple cards like kill and nature's reign (or equivalent cards with different names) every couple of sets. This is very preferable to me. Also, they still have basic sets in mtg, they just stopped making them 100% reprints (which I never said a basic set had to be in Hex).

Though I suppose they could just keep the base set as all commons and let them continue to drop in certain pve content and allow them to be used in pvp even after the set they came from rotates out. I am not really sure how well this would work since there has never been a game like Hex that could do something like this. It would have some trouble with identifying them as legal in the standard format but a simple format filter in the deck builder would probably be the simplest method.

Also, do we have a Hex specific name for the standard format yet? If so, what is it?

Aradon
02-28-2016, 09:23 PM
base sets mean they do not need to reprint staple cards like kill and nature's reign (or equivalent cards with different names) every couple of sets. This is very preferable to me. Also, they still have basic sets in mtg, they just stopped making them 100% reprints (which I never said a basic set had to be in Hex).

Actually, Origins was the final Core set. Each set going forward is going to be plane-specific.

sukebe
02-28-2016, 09:49 PM
Actually, Origins was the final Core set. Each set going forward is going to be plane-specific.

Ah, that is news to me. I have not kept up since I have not had the money to pay for the hobby :-) Does anyone still play mtg and know how this has worked out when it comes to the number of reprints (exact reprints or functional) in their sets?

wolzarg
02-28-2016, 10:51 PM
The thing is reprints aren't actually as good as people make them out to be. You don't need 2 cost destroy in black every cycle all you need is semi efficient removal in blood. The reprints are just a copout making it so you don't have to come up with something new and interesting.

sukebe
02-28-2016, 11:07 PM
The thing is reprints aren't actually as good as people make them out to be. You don't need 2 cost destroy in black every cycle all you need is semi efficient removal in blood. The reprints are just a copout making it so you don't have to come up with something new and interesting.

I never said reprints were good, in fact I liked the base sets because it kept those basic cards out of the interesting blocks. If they do not reprint basic cards they will create cards that are, at the very least, very similar to them. Eventually that gets out of hand. There are only so many ways to create a countermagic without just slapping on some random mechanic or changing the rarity and costs which is no more "original" than simply reprinting as far as I am concerned. I see no reason to make things different just for the sake of making it different.

wolzarg
02-28-2016, 11:12 PM
Then we disagree i would rather see 50 similar iterations of a spell than see it reprinted 50 times. Because some of those will be worse and then you have to plan for that and some of those will be better making the formats shift.

ossuary
02-29-2016, 08:53 AM
I like a little of both, personally. Slightly different versions of similar effects, but it's fine to have them reprinted from time to time as well. Having 50 different cards that do almost the same thing makes legacy formats weird and convoluted, I'd much prefer no more than 10-12 versions of an effect with occasional reprints to keep the staple cards available.

Something to remember, too, is that Hex can do things with the digital space that paper TCGs can't. There's no reason we couldn't have an "eternal" pack that generates staple cards from multiple sets, you don't actually have to reprint the exact card with new art and tie it to a specific set number. I'm not saying that's better or worse than in-set reprints, just that it's an option that could be investigated - there are other possibilities as well which could be quite interesting to see. I'm looking forward to finding out what CZE's plans are in this regard, once the details are finalized.

Jormungandr
02-29-2016, 09:15 AM
Then we disagree i would rather see 50 similar iterations of a spell than see it reprinted 50 times. Because some of those will be worse and then you have to plan for that and some of those will be better making the formats shift.

The problem with that, too, is that 50 similar iterations of a card can all be put in the same deck. If you reprint with the same name, you limit quantity in the same deck. For a lot of things, that doesn't really matter, but it should be a consideration.

It also keeps some older cards relevant that wouldn't otherwise be by making them playable in future blocks. (If they reprint extinction in set 7, for example, presumably people can play their set 1 extinctions in that block, boosting the value of those cards)

Turtlewing
02-29-2016, 09:47 AM
I like a little of both, personally. Slightly different versions of similar effects, but it's fine to have them reprinted from time to time as well. Having 50 different cards that do almost the same thing makes legacy formats weird and convoluted, I'd much prefer no more than 10-12 versions of an effect with occasional reprints to keep the staple cards available.

Something to remember, too, is that Hex can do things with the digital space that paper TCGs can't. There's no reason we couldn't have an "eternal" pack that generates staple cards from multiple sets, you don't actually have to reprint the exact card with new art and tie it to a specific set number. I'm not saying that's better or worse than in-set reprints, just that it's an option that could be investigated - there are other possibilities as well which could be quite interesting to see. I'm looking forward to finding out what CZE's plans are in this regard, once the details are finalized.

Exactly this.

Reprints help keep the "30 mountains and 30 lighting bolts" type decks in check in formats with longer memory.

Also Hex doesn't actually have to reprint the cards or make "eternal packs" per say. They can potentially juts add the staples to the list of what's allowed in the format and distribute them via other channels. They could for example drop in PvE or be in chests.

Clawdius
03-01-2016, 11:38 AM
I just wish that we could get official answers to a question or two, maybe three or four if HXE is feeling generous. I am so tired of saying "This is coming, but we have no other information about it, so have my own personal speculation". Given that we're coming up on the end of a block or a book or a chapter or a coven or an incubation cycle or what have you, it could be really cool if there was some kind of information or discussion available beforehand. We don't have to start with things rolling out in the patches, we can start off with stuff that is written in sand before we move on to chiseling it into soul marble. More community discussion and the ability to engage with upcoming ideas that are soon to be implemented could conceivably help the developers make changes before they're released.

I did always enjoy the patch notes in Guild Wars, and the feeling that we were all as dust motes wafting through the developers beams of lights, scattered by their passage. In Hex though, it feels more like we're sometimes just given partial explanations, or even explanations that don't make sense. I would hate for the next block to begin and then, what? No one knows. It's like no one can know. It's like if they tell you they have to kill you.

Or, worse, it makes it seem like the developers don't know and that's a scary world to live in. I get it, a united front, loose lips pink slips. But FFS at some point won't someone answer something? Can we know anything before it actually happens? Must we be drip fed information through obscure channels and Friday updates until it coalesces into something real? What will happen when the blocks rotate? Will the sundial in the courtyard point the way to Atlantis? I just really hate feeling like hex players are mushrooms.

magic_gazz
03-01-2016, 12:05 PM
Agreed. I do feel like at this point in time with multiple sets in the future designed, they should have figured out what they want their rotation to be. The fact that they have not said anything does make it feel like they have not figured it out, and that is not a good thing.

wolzarg
03-01-2016, 06:22 PM
I like a little of both, personally. Slightly different versions of similar effects, but it's fine to have them reprinted from time to time as well. Having 50 different cards that do almost the same thing makes legacy formats weird and convoluted, I'd much prefer no more than 10-12 versions of an effect with occasional reprints to keep the staple cards available.

Something to remember, too, is that Hex can do things with the digital space that paper TCGs can't. There's no reason we couldn't have an "eternal" pack that generates staple cards from multiple sets, you don't actually have to reprint the exact card with new art and tie it to a specific set number. I'm not saying that's better or worse than in-set reprints, just that it's an option that could be investigated - there are other possibilities as well which could be quite interesting to see. I'm looking forward to finding out what CZE's plans are in this regard, once the details are finalized.

I don't disagree at all i was taking it to the extreme because the discussion was based in the core sets that were flat out reprints all over. I would rather have too many iterations than no iterations but i absolutely agree with you that some reprints and a handful of reiterations are a sweet spot.

sukebe
03-01-2016, 07:46 PM
I don't disagree at all i was taking it to the extreme because the discussion was based in the core sets that were flat out reprints all over. I would rather have too many iterations than no iterations but i absolutely agree with you that some reprints and a handful of reiterations are a sweet spot.

actually, I was referring to the more recent version of mtg's core sets that were half reprints and half new stuff. I realize now I didnt actually say that anywhere and just assumed we were both talking about the same thing, sorry about that :-)

wolzarg
03-01-2016, 08:10 PM
I tend to find them bland but that is much more in line with what i meant not every set has lightning bolt or doom blade but a lot of them do because its a big core of red and black. So yeah as i said i find reprints good as long as they don't stifle innovation or become baseline not every version of the standard format needs a specific card.

Kingrags
03-02-2016, 01:08 AM
I can get behind the rolling one set out whenever a new set is released idea. 3 meta shifts each year is awsoeme!

Gregangel
03-02-2016, 12:31 PM
Set 4 will have 300+ cards instead of about 250 like the last two sets. Maybe a hint about rotation with set 5...

Elwinz
03-02-2016, 12:39 PM
but frist one 350

Gregangel
03-02-2016, 01:05 PM
Yeah but for a first set it's normal to have more cards

Gregangel
03-16-2016, 08:11 AM
The question has been asked during the five shards interview of Cory... and it was a strange moment.
The question seemed to embarrass Cory.
He did not really answer except by saying set 5 will not see rotation. I had the felling he really don't know yet which rules will be applied.
Weird...

hex_colin
03-16-2016, 08:40 AM
The question has been asked during the five shards interview of Cory... and it was a strange moment.
The question seemed to embarrass Cory.
He did not really answer except by saying set 5 will not see rotation. I had the felling he really don't know yet which rules will be applied.
Weird...

It's not that he doesn't know, it's that nothing is 100% certain yet. The minute he says something that sounds definitive and then it changes in any way hundreds of threads will pop up with "OMG! Why is this Y? You said X!!!!"

wolzarg
03-16-2016, 08:44 AM
It's not that he doesn't know, it's that nothing is 100% certain yet. The minute he says something that sounds definitive and then it changes in any way hundreds of threads will pop up with "OMG! Why is this Y? You said X!!!!"
But Z is clearly the right option why arent HXE implementing Z instead?!

Aradon
03-16-2016, 09:17 AM
If I recall, he vaguely mentioned sets 5 and 6 as 'the last chapter' in the podcast, and references set 7 as being something different. I kind of wonder if they're going to shift approaches and incorporate some kind of 'core' set structure that fundamentally changes the chapter system. Unless I just mis-heard or misunderstood him.
(And to be clear, he clearly references releasing 3 sets a year as being his end goal, so whatever happens after set 6 still implies periodic content releases like sets!)