View Full Version : Watchman Thoughts - Are we playing wrong?

03-05-2016, 12:43 AM
Just wanted to share and get some feedback on the Watchmen Crossover. Let me start by saying we very much enjoy the Watchmen scenario. It makes for a fun and unique gameplay experience. I can't help but wonder, though, if we are doing something wrong. On another thread, Matt stated:

Winning as the Loyals takes a lot of teamwork. Practice does help...

This surprised me, as the Secret Mastermind seems to have an extremely difficult time winning in our playgroup. We've played about 25 games of the Watchmen scenario, and the Secret Mastermind has only won four times. The methods of winning were sometimes unconventional. In one game, the SM won in a 2-Player game by default, simply because the Loyal player had destroyed all their Starter Cards and had no way to get them back to contribute to the Challenge. In another game, the SM collected three copies of Suicide Squad and two of Clayface in a deck that only had about eight cards. The other players gave up without even finishing the game as they needed to constantly discard their hands.

One thing we find is the Villainous Machinations is difficult to pull off. It can be hard to get all the card types you need, and even harder to get them all in one hand. This is especially due to the Level 1 Challenge locking everyone down. Out of the 25 games we've played, only four times has the Mastermind Plot come out. In three of those cases, it was defeated.

Another issue is Disintegration. We have yet to see the SM use it. Only once has the SM actually got it, and they never had the chance to use it. If a Loyal player gets it, I almost feel like it makes the game even easier for the Loyal players, as an entire Challenge (Usually the Level 3) can just be skipped. The game is getting to the most difficult part when *poof* it's suddenly over. We are toying with removing that card altogether.

I wanted to know how the games turn out for other playgroups. Is the SM usually the winner in your group, or the Loyalists? Are we doing something wrong?

As a side note, we also find that there is a point in the game where the SM has not revealed the Mastermind Plot, but has no choice but to reveal themselves anyway. Sometimes the SM must refuse to "buy" the Level 2 Challenge. Other times, the SM will just start playing cards like Rioters and Owlship out of late-game desperation. Anyone else notice this?

03-07-2016, 12:23 PM
We had been playing with Crisis 2 cards mixed in with Heroes Unite and found that the Mastermind couldn't get lower than about 20 cards left in the deck, but regularly triggered the VM to reveal. We then switched to removing the Crisis cards and just having Watchmen and Heroes Unite and now even without triggering the VM the SM is able to win relatively easily just by running the deck out by getting one or two of the "destroy all non <> type cards in the lineup and replace them. I think there has to be a bit more of a balance - maybe by adding say 10-12 cards to the deck from JSA Crossover? I also suggested that if we used a Crisis set plus Watchmen we should run both Level 1 Challenges (one after the other, not simultaneously) to run the deck out a bit, but still have more options for purchase.
On an unrelated note - anyone else find Silk Spectre virtually useless compared to the other Watchmen?

03-17-2016, 06:47 PM
Silk Spectre is pretty bad unfortunately.

03-18-2016, 06:36 AM
I am thinking about trying a mix of Watchmen and Hidden Objectives Mode from Crisis 3. Maybe along the lines of "If Loyalist win, check your Hidden Objectives and see if you win. If The Deck runs out or non of the Loyalist achieve their Hidden Objective, the Traitor wins." I figured the Traitor will ignore their Hidden Objective since their focus will be to run out the deck instead but they will still be dealt one since we don't know who the Traitor is.

I feel this may shift the game to be more equal between the Traitor and the Loyalists but I haven't been able to try it yet. Also, some of the Hidden Objective cards would have to be removed depending on which deck you are playing with (such as VP HO and of course the Traitor HO). Thoughts?

03-18-2016, 09:01 AM
Also, some of the Hidden Objective cards would have to be removed depending on which deck you are playing with (such as VP HO and of course the Traitor HO).

Why does the VP HO need to be removed?

03-18-2016, 07:38 PM
Why does the VP HO need to be removed?

Sorry, I always mistake that one as VP (tokens) instead of VP total (tokens and cards). The only one you would remove would be Traitor... and technically you could keep it and have a good guy end up being a Traitor as well (where he has to make the game end once on the 3rd challenge). I figured to take it out just to eliminate that weird imbalance of having the Watchmen "Traitor" and the Hidden Objective "Traitor" working together (especially if in a 3 player game).