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View Full Version : Request to Datadragon - Top 10 drafter stats



Angmar
03-06-2016, 08:47 PM
It was mentioned several times during the 100K coverage that ValueCity was a top 10 drafter in the game, but we never got to hear what sort of win rate that related to.

Any chance we can get that top 10 list with match/draft win percentages?

Gen91
03-06-2016, 10:36 PM
When they release such a statistic I hope they don't count rare drafts or afk starts,
often ppl don't have time for their weekly drafts and just start,
grab some cards and then drop.

sukebe
03-06-2016, 10:38 PM
When they release such a statistic I hope they don't count rare drafts or afk starts,
often ppl don't have time for their weekly drafts and just start,
grab some cards and then drop.

Why would they not include these things? Seems to me they should be included in our stats

Cernz
03-06-2016, 10:39 PM
Top 50 pls ;)

Cunning
03-06-2016, 11:59 PM
I would be surprised if I wasn't on that list, I have more packs than I started set 3 with. Any better than that and it must mean taking first place every time.

Gen91
03-07-2016, 01:27 AM
Why would they not include these things? Seems to me they should be included in our stats
When I start 100 drafts and in 50 of them I only raredraft and drop,
but in the other 50 I play, I always win, should I get only a 50% winrate?

Sethanon
03-07-2016, 01:33 AM
When I start 100 drafts and in 50 of them I only raredraft and drop,
but in the other 50 I play, I always win, should I get only a 50% winrate?

Seems reasonable to me to count them all. Except obvious reasons discussed before, who are they to know you didn't drop because of bad draft/pool

Malicus
03-07-2016, 02:38 AM
Im still hoping we get personal stat pages soon - it would be amazing to be able to have access to our win rates with various decks - our draft and constructed records etc. I usually track my own when a new set is out but I am super lazy so not having to do that would be nice.

Kami
03-07-2016, 05:55 AM
Im still hoping we get personal stat pages soon - it would be amazing to be able to have access to our win rates with various decks - our draft and constructed records etc. I usually track my own when a new set is out but I am super lazy so not having to do that would be nice.

That's going to be extremely depressing for some of us. ^^;

Gen91
03-07-2016, 06:08 AM
Seems reasonable to me to count them all. Except obvious reasons discussed before, who are they to know you didn't drop because of bad draft/pool
Hmm ok, you are right didn't thought of that.
Maybe let us flag before the start if we're just going to raredraft and then drop.
Maybe a bit too much work but still,
I don't want my statistic to look much worse, just because I didn't have much time this and the next year :(

Gregangel
03-07-2016, 06:12 AM
The near future ranking system would certainly be the only way to have a glimpse on our level in the game comparz to others.
Cory was not very specific when he talked about it in the invitationl stream but it's sound like it would be like a ATP tennis ranking.

Daer
03-07-2016, 07:04 AM
I want confirmation that I am a top ten rare drafter.

KingGabriel
03-07-2016, 07:15 AM
I will not change my playstyle from fun plays to useful ones only, no matter the result on my ranking :P

MasterN64
03-07-2016, 07:23 AM
honestly i hope these stats stay hidden. Having a glaring win % show up on your stat page for drafts and the like just leads to a more selfish view both inside and outside of the game. Yes track tournament wins that are part of an actual tournament like fiveshards and such but the generic competition queue? Thats a step too far with stat tracking. There are people out there that sometimes just want to sit down and draft to just goof off and have some fun with a deck. The generic queues are a casual grouping of people that want to play a game and to throw a giant ranking system on that is like counting a basketball players stats with the game he plays with his nephews in their yard as part of their career. Not to say its a joke its meant to be taken seriously but not on the level of a truly organized tournament format.

In the end it will bloat the entire system and actually punish people for just having fun and going with something fun. Remember UDraft? Would a serious competitive streamer do that anymore if he knew it would seriously effect his rankings? Its a punishment on having fun.

That and generally stuff like KDA and win % in games ends up a giant circlejerk dick waving contest where a portion of the community will just outright lie cheat and steal to protect. Situations like that are a sad truth and they are best left to the groups that are built to handle them. And those groups are the organizers of the serious tournaments. Its a requirement to run a serious competitive tournament to be able to handle situations like that. Its something that cant be policed properly in a wild west like atmosphere of casual draft queues.

If the post came off hard to read its cause i was up all night playing the culling after being dragged away from hex which i played and watched all yesterday.

TLDR EDIT

Basically tournaments hosted by a serious group of people or company where you are expected to bring your AAA++ game should be ranked in some way but the casual random drafts are just a waste of time to police with it as most people are just out to have fun in them.

As a side note im actually a little sad that the stats were referenced at all really if they were for standard random queues.

Cernz
03-07-2016, 07:27 AM
true, but they could easily add ranked / unranked tournaments to prevent ppl from forcing them into ranked games.

or just make comp drafts = ranked
and swiss drafts = unranked

id prefer both as ranked/unranked - but this might blows up the whole system and spreads the playerbase.

MasterN64
03-07-2016, 07:30 AM
true, but they could easily add rankend / unranked tournaments to prevent ppl from forcing them into ranked games.

Ah yes but the problem stands for that is then you would have a normal competitive, ranked competitive, normal swiss, and ranked swiss queues which would slow down the already somewhat slow firing rate for the tourneys. Granted thats even if you worry about the swiss getting ranked. But fragmenting a smaller playerbase into even smaller shards is always a bad plan.

Angmar
03-07-2016, 09:14 AM
TLDR EDIT

Basically tournaments hosted by a serious group of people or company where you are expected to bring your AAA++ game should be ranked in some way but the casual random drafts are just a waste of time to police with it as most people are just out to have fun in them.

As a side note im actually a little sad that the stats were referenced at all really if they were for standard random queues.

A) The ranking means absolutely nothing. Its not like you are getting a prize or a tournament invite from it.

B) I'm asking out of personal curiosity. I know I'm not top 10 lifetime, but it would be interesting to know what to aspire to in a given format.

Edit: Basically we have no yardstick to measure limited success whereas it very easy to measure constructed success.

sukebe
03-07-2016, 01:23 PM
When I start 100 drafts and in 50 of them I only raredraft and drop,
but in the other 50 I play, I always win, should I get only a 50% winrate?

yes, you most certainly should since that is the winrate you have earned. Why do you think it should be any other way?


honestly i hope these stats stay hidden. Having a glaring win % show up on your stat page for drafts and the like just leads to a more selfish view both inside and outside of the game. Yes track tournament wins that are part of an actual tournament like fiveshards and such but the generic competition queue? Thats a step too far with stat tracking. There are people out there that sometimes just want to sit down and draft to just goof off and have some fun with a deck. The generic queues are a casual grouping of people that want to play a game and to throw a giant ranking system on that is like counting a basketball players stats with the game he plays with his nephews in their yard as part of their career. Not to say its a joke its meant to be taken seriously but not on the level of a truly organized tournament format.

In the end it will bloat the entire system and actually punish people for just having fun and going with something fun. Remember UDraft? Would a serious competitive streamer do that anymore if he knew it would seriously effect his rankings? Its a punishment on having fun.

That and generally stuff like KDA and win % in games ends up a giant circlejerk dick waving contest where a portion of the community will just outright lie cheat and steal to protect. Situations like that are a sad truth and they are best left to the groups that are built to handle them. And those groups are the organizers of the serious tournaments. Its a requirement to run a serious competitive tournament to be able to handle situations like that. Its something that cant be policed properly in a wild west like atmosphere of casual draft queues.

If the post came off hard to read its cause i was up all night playing the culling after being dragged away from hex which i played and watched all yesterday.

TLDR EDIT

Basically tournaments hosted by a serious group of people or company where you are expected to bring your AAA++ game should be ranked in some way but the casual random drafts are just a waste of time to police with it as most people are just out to have fun in them.

As a side note im actually a little sad that the stats were referenced at all really if they were for standard random queues.

I disagree, at least when it comes to competitive draft and competitive constructed. These should be tracked just like any other tournament. If you want to make an argument for the swiss (casual friendly) versions of these 2 events to not be tracked I can see that being a possibility though. This would also mean we would either need a competitive sealed 8 man event or we would need to track that in rankings as well.

SquallTiofae
03-07-2016, 01:30 PM
I'd be morbidly curious to know what my Limited/Constructed ranking was. I can't see what it would hurt to know. People that you think will be egotistical and narcissistic about their limited rating will be so without it.

Brjuntinaar
03-07-2016, 02:01 PM
I think a ranking system for limited would be an absolutely awesome addition to the game. It would be cool if the ranking reset every few months, and then maybe there was at least some overall record of your stats / ranking that you could view for your own edification. Also, Cory mentioned during the tournament that constructed rankings would be a possible way in the future for players to merit inclusion into tournaments. It would be awesome if the same was true for limited rankings, and even more awesome (i.e. cowabunga-level awesome) if there was a tournament entirely devoted to limited play.

Miwa
03-07-2016, 02:17 PM
If they add something like this, I think they should hide the names of people in queue, so no dodging (or sniping) allowed...

I'll be in the running for top rare drafters.

Saeijou
03-07-2016, 02:53 PM
if they have something like that, you should be able to do a "raredraft" decision, that isnt showing up in the stats...
or it doesnt count, if you drop before round 1 or so ;)

Yoss
03-07-2016, 02:56 PM
It will be nice when we have all our stats available for viewing.

sukebe
03-07-2016, 03:14 PM
if they have something like that, you should be able to do a "raredraft" decision, that isnt showing up in the stats...
or it doesnt count, if you drop before round 1 or so ;)

why do people keep insisting on this? you are choosing to rare draft and drop out. it is a tournament you entered so it is a tournament that should show up on your tournament standings. I rare draft and drop occasionally too when I don't have time to do the full draft but I see no reason that should not show up on my ranking/stats...I can see an argument being made to exclude swiss draft/constructed so people can rare draft without losing points (though I still feel they should be counted) but why keep saying rare drafting should not count?

ossuary
03-07-2016, 03:17 PM
I don't understand why anyone would think any of their drafts would magically not count. If you raredraft or drop, that's your problem, it still affects your overall stats. To do anything else is ridiculous, people could just drop immediately if they don't like the first 3-4 picks and not have it affect their record. Down the road when standings matter for various tournament invitationals, being able to exclude some of your results from your results would be ridiculous.

sukebe
03-07-2016, 03:21 PM
I don't understand why anyone would think any of their drafts would magically not count. If you raredraft or drop, that's your problem, it still affects your overall stats. To do anything else is ridiculous, people could just drop immediately if they don't like the first 3-4 picks and not have it affect their record. Down the road when standings matter for various tournament invitationals, being able to exclude some of your results from your results would be ridiculous.

+1, thank you. you said it much better than I did I think.

Poetic
03-07-2016, 03:28 PM
Don't have a problem counting everything, but don't think it should be retroactive when people have been dicking around because there wasn't a system in place. Hope whenever it's implemented it's started from that point on.

Veetor
03-07-2016, 03:38 PM
My guess is you would have a rolling stats system, the player you are this month shouldn't be affected by who you were a year ago. but it's also nice to see progress/regress.

sukebe
03-07-2016, 03:53 PM
Don't have a problem counting everything, but don't think it should be retroactive when people have been dicking around because there wasn't a system in place. Hope whenever it's implemented it's started from that point on.

I agree with this. I would not mind all the past games being included in my stats though as long as they didn't effect my ranking.

Shaqattaq
03-07-2016, 03:58 PM
Hi all. I shared that information with ValueCity in order to enhance the player introduction videos. I shouldn't have been so specific and clearly did not understand at the time that all players would request this information. At this time, we won't be making this information public and I apologize for sharing that information with one specific player. It was not fair and we'll have better internal guidelines for communicating unpublished game information in the future.

Refugee
03-07-2016, 03:59 PM
Let me start with I don't care at all about my stats. That said...

If I want to draft and force a ridiculous (but fun) deck that has no chance why would you put a system in to discourage that? The first tenet of any system is that it should NEVER discourage play.

Unfortunately I don't have a great solution to the problem to present, but I know making ever tournament automatically high stakes for some people is only going to make them play less. I thought initially you could just make an opt-in/opt-out system when joining a tourney to have it be ranked or not. But then you could just have 8 people join a queue with only a couple opted in to inflate the ratings of the group. Though I suppose that system could still work if Hex made it clear that the behavior was bannable and checked for it before granting rewards.

Anyway, the point is adding needless stress to a game is just going to alienate a subgroup of the players. Any ranked option really has to be opt-in. As a relevant case study look at league of legends ranked mode vs normals.

Tazelbain
03-07-2016, 04:07 PM
So there is zero chance that somebody isn't going alienated. Let's not pretend that is a substantial point.

nicosharp
03-07-2016, 04:08 PM
Hi all. I shared that information with ValueCity in order to enhance the player introduction videos. I shouldn't have been so specific and clearly did not understand at the time that all players would request this information. At this time, we won't be making this information public and I apologize for sharing that information with one specific player. It was not fair and we'll have better internal guidelines for communicating unpublished game information in the future.

From a third-party perspective - people new to HEX - I don't think it mattered at all that this was mentioned and discussed a lot during the stream.

However, from a competitive/active player perspective it was really bizarre, and especially because it was referenced so much during the stream.

Angmar
03-07-2016, 04:09 PM
Hi all. I shared that information with ValueCity in order to enhance the player introduction videos. I shouldn't have been so specific and clearly did not understand at the time that all players would request this information. At this time, we won't be making this information public and I apologize for sharing that information with one specific player. It was not fair and we'll have better internal guidelines for communicating unpublished game information in the future.

Thank you Shaqattaq.

Can a mod please close the thread as my original post has been answered?

Refugee
03-07-2016, 04:12 PM
So there is zero chance that somebody isn't going alienated. Let's not pretend that is a substantial point.

How does an opt-in system upset anyone?

Yoss
03-07-2016, 04:43 PM
I thought official PvP stats tracking was on the official road map as a future feature. Has that changed?

dogmod
03-07-2016, 04:52 PM
I thought official PvP stats tracking was on the official road map as a future feature. Has that changed?

A ranking system for top drafters would be awesome. Might get me back into draft more (that and a new set) where as I just rare draft my free drafts now.

magic_gazz
03-07-2016, 04:52 PM
I love how some people don't want a rank because it might upset them.

How about just don't look at it if you don't want to know.

Kami
03-07-2016, 05:14 PM
Thank you Shaqattaq.

Can a mod please close the thread as my original post has been answered?

Done.