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View Full Version : What's up with the PvE rarity scale system?



KingGabriel
03-20-2016, 07:20 AM
There's no PvE commons - why is that? I'd personally like to see a lot more rarity tiers in PvE so we can tell what's actually very rare - Lady Devonshire drops a lot less than Saarthu, Recruiter Ring is 10x or more it seems as rare as ardent chestplate.

Doesn't make sense to keep it to the same as the PvP rarities (minus commons for some reason...?) I'd like to see a lot more distinction so we can tell what's rare - you could keep the shard matrix the same for say, 3 tiers of legendary card but this would allow players to tell how rare it is a bit better (but not better enough to tell actual drop rate) - you can move it down/up these scales as necessary a lot easier. It would also give more flexibility in the crafting system later on. Maybe add 1-5 faded silver stars around the legendary icon?

I know this seems minor, but opening a Saarthu as a new player and seeing the AH prices must be super disappointing, especially when you realize 51p isn't its actual worth.

While I'm at it, a lot of these legendaries could do with a drop rate nerf (initially on patches too), especially if some sort of delay appears before the next PvE content it would be nice for them not to completely devalue. (See; Arena) While I'm aware new systems will be in play to balance this a bit better e.g. the crafting system it would be nice to know roughly what quantity of crafting materials you'd get for it later at a glance.

I'd also like if the drop rates get buffed/nerfed in a way that gets mentioned in patch notes that the rarity changes also downwards/upwards.

ManofPeace
03-20-2016, 07:38 AM
The lack of PvE commons was explained in one of the campaign article. They didn't want duplicates of effects which is why those PvP commons are in those packs in the first place.

Edit:

https://www.hextcg.com/pve-campaign-overview/
"To speak to the common PvP cards, we wanted to be able to offer access to some basic building block commons (especially for players that are just starting out), and we don’t want to have double up on those simple designs, because that would allow players to run what would functionally be 8x of a given effect (say, Kill) in their deck instead of 4. Because the vast majority of value in a PvP pack is relegated to the Rare/Legendary slot, we felt that offering a subset of the commons from our PvP sets to the campaign experience would not affect the value of players’ collections."

Salverus
03-20-2016, 07:43 AM
was also asked here; http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=47953

https://www.hextcg.com/pve-campaign-overview/

and we don’t want to have double up on those simple designs, because that would allow players to run what would functionally be 8x of a given effect (say, Kill) in their deck instead of 4.

Also i don't think rarity for PvE matters a whole lot, except for the legendary items. Since rare and lower will be at the price floor, if not lower, anyway. (yes, a few rare items are still worth something now, but not for long)

edit: too slow, derp.

madar
03-20-2016, 08:48 AM
Well, i think the drop rate is random. I farmed the Dream instance for weeks, without getting any Enter the Dream. At a point i gave it up, and moved to farm Devonshire, and got a lots of Lady Devonshire. I didn't write up, but i got like 1 from 6 packs, i sold like 10 of them in the AH. Then my luck changed, for a while i was getting both Enter the Dreams and Lady Devonshire, and in the last 3 days i getting none of them.
I think it's fine, it's good that there is PVE cards what can make some money for the PVE oriented players.

IronPheasant
03-20-2016, 10:56 AM
I don't particularly notice a lot more legendary cards dropping from Adventure chests than dungeon ones. It's just a larger quantity of those chests that drop.

If you look at the entire cardlist, there is actually one (1) common PvE card, but it doesn't drop. There have been intimations by one of the powers that be that it might later on.

A small handful of PvE commons could be pretty nice. I don't even look at those drop slots since nothing of value can drop in them.

fido_one
03-20-2016, 11:30 AM
I don't particularly notice a lot more legendary cards dropping from Adventure chests than dungeon ones. It's just a larger quantity of those chests that drop.

If you look at the entire cardlist, there is actually one (1) common PvE card, but it doesn't drop. There have been intimations by one of the powers that be that it might later on.

A small handful of PvE commons could be pretty nice. I don't even look at those drop slots since nothing of value can drop in them.

I think the common PvE card you are talking about is from the tutorial and not part of any collection. I think they made a very good decision on nixing PvE common cards, though I was scratching my head on it until I read their explanation.

Kalis
03-20-2016, 11:30 AM
I don't think Lady Devonshire is any more rare than Saarthu. It is just that Saarthu drops form adventure packs which people get a lot more of. In fact I have yet to see a Saarthu after opening around 300 Adventure packs, got multiple copies of every other legendary though.

SquallTiofae
03-20-2016, 01:13 PM
I'm at 80+ runs on Devonshire Keep, I have 3 playsets of every card from there except I have yet to pull a single Lady Devonshire. It's kind of mindblowingly bad luck on my end.

Catalonia
03-20-2016, 01:36 PM
i'd like to see more rarity tiers in pvp too, because holy ascension seems to be the commonest of legendaries (i've got 11) while synn seems to be the rarest of legendaries (i've got 1)

Salverus
03-20-2016, 02:54 PM
i'd like to see more rarity tiers in pvp too, because holy ascension seems to be the commonest of legendaries (i've got 11) while synn seems to be the rarest of legendaries (i've got 1)
are those statistics from draft or pack opening?
i mean someone can pass a holy ascension, but no one will pass a synn.

vulture27
03-20-2016, 03:58 PM
i'd like to see more rarity tiers in pvp too, because holy ascension seems to be the commonest of legendaries (i've got 11) while synn seems to be the rarest of legendaries (i've got 1)

Random is random. No individual person, likely even counting Colin, has opened enough packs to confirm if there is any variance in PvP card chance within a rarity. There is also zero reason to believe that HexEnt set it up that way.

Showsni
03-20-2016, 11:15 PM
Lady Devonshire drops a lot less than Saarthu

Is that true? I've opened way more AZ1 packs than Devonshire Packs, and yet I have exactly 1 Saarthu and 1 Lady Devonshire.

Fateanomaly
03-20-2016, 11:33 PM
I opened 14 seeker, 6 saarthu, 1 stalker, 1 angel and 1 transcend from all my pve packs. If the chances are equal, my luck must be really weird.

Kalis
03-20-2016, 11:43 PM
I opened 14 seeker, 6 saarthu, 1 stalker, 1 angel and 1 transcend from all my pve packs. If the chances are equal, my luck must be really weird.

I have opened 6 Seekers, 0 Saarthu, 2 Stalkers, 1 Angel, and 2 Transcend.

Catalonia
03-21-2016, 12:50 AM
are those statistics from draft or pack opening?
i mean someone can pass a holy ascension, but no one will pass a synn.

from everything, pack opening through draft, gauntlet and sealed, primals and WoF, may be there are a couple i've got passed but would still be 9 vs 1


Random is random. No individual person, likely even counting Colin, has opened enough packs to confirm if there is any variance in PvP card chance within a rarity. There is also zero reason to believe that HexEnt set it up that way.

i know and i would say that's true for pve too. i was being ironic with the idea from the op

Showsni
03-21-2016, 06:08 AM
I opened 14 seeker, 6 saarthu, 1 stalker, 1 angel and 1 transcend from all my pve packs. If the chances are equal, my luck must be really weird.

3 Seeker, 1 Saarthu, 0 Stalker, 1 Angel and 5 Transcend for me.

Aradon
03-21-2016, 08:13 AM
3 Transcend, 4 Angel of Glory, 4 Flamethought Seeker, 5 Saarthu, and 6 Stalker. Seems roughly balanced from my perspective. More data will probably show your distribution as being abnormal. I would certainly expect some notice if 'legendary' rarity had separate tiers of drop rates.

Stuie
03-21-2016, 08:23 AM
PVE rarity is more about deck building restrictions, not so much the drop rate.

Zantetsuken
03-21-2016, 09:32 AM
I opened 14 seeker, 6 saarthu, 1 stalker, 1 angel and 1 transcend from all my pve packs. If the chances are equal, my luck must be really weird.

9 seeker, 1 saarthu, 4 stalker, 2 angel, 4 transcend

Seeker most common legendary ever. <_<

Just for comparison sake, I've only pulled 6 Adaptatron. A rare is more legendary than a legendary.

knightofeffect
03-21-2016, 10:11 AM
I've felt like the rare drops from the AZ packs aren't all created equal. I've gotten 3 adapatrons, around 10 or so anklyosaurs, and then around 30 Scraptooth Manglers.

I think the real issue is the campaign is just a really poor grinding proposition atm. There just isn't a very big pool for each campaign pack-type resulting in a situation where you get a ton of mediocre to bad uncommons and not much else for your time investment a majority of the time.

But the value of drops is relative to its rarity, so making the rares drop more often isn't the answer. Really just having a much larger and more diverse pool is the answer, which is forgivable for the lvl 1-9 content, but that is all we have to work with atm. I do wish the loot tables for dungeons were bigger though, getting the uncommons for 10 consecutive packs is a pretty deflating way to acure no value while playing.

Catalonia
03-21-2016, 11:24 AM
just adding my data: 4 seeker, 4 angel, 3 transcend, 3 saarthu, 2 stalker
pretty balanced

IronPheasant
03-21-2016, 11:26 AM
On that note I'm not a huge fan of the guaranteed drops either. Kiss of the Princess, Wormoid Hydra, etc. Not a lot of value unless the card takes some huge amount of time (days) to get.

Let's hope crafting will instill some scant value to all the chaff, which is basically everything below legendary in value. Sans those chase uncommons, the recruiters, I guess.

My score on AV1 chests is 0 angel, 3 avatar, 4 transcend, 3 dragon, 5 seeker.

KingGabriel
03-21-2016, 12:50 PM
The lack of PvE commons was explained in one of the campaign article. They didn't want duplicates of effects which is why those PvP commons are in those packs in the first place.


I'd argue that's the reverse of the actual effect. You're getting repeats of the pvp common effects. What I'm saying is to make some of the uncommons commons and adjustable rarity - there needs to be multiple layers of "ooh" when opening a pve pack, just like a pvp pack. With uncommon as the baseline that cant really happen.


PVE rarity is more about deck building restrictions, not so much the drop rate.
My entire argument is that was exactly what it should be for the fun value and ease of seeing what is rarer at a glance. I'm arguing it should be changed. So I really don't know why you're telling me what I already know.



Let's hope crafting will instill some scant value to all the chaff, which is basically everything below legendary in value.
I'm guessing it will also, but in the meantime it would be better for the new player experience to adjust as listed in the OP I think. Having more levels of rarity would also benefit crafting imo.