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whiteyzz
04-11-2016, 11:39 AM
I see the release of steam as a great thing, but I only see one problem. The lack of information on how to make platinum. Sure most the oldies know that you can go on the trade and trade gold for platinum, and know the general exchange rate. But to someone who just comes into the game this could never hit their mind and just see this simply as a game where if you want cards you have to buy Platinum (for rare and legendary cards).

So I was thinking we could do two of the things.

Add to the store part of the place a way to convert gold into platinum, or platinum into gold like games GW2 and Spiral Knight does with a slight twist. Guild wars 2 does a stock market kinda way where if the server has more gold then crystals, the crystals become more expensive and the same with the opposite situation which isn't something good right now with an open market base so instead it would work like this.

1. Player A first input I want to buy either Gold with Platinum, or Platinum for gold so it would look like I want to buy 1 platinum for 100 gold.

2. Player A now inputs the quantity of how much he wants, so he want's 500 platinum, he has to put 50,000 Gold into this system unable to access it unless he cancels in which he would get 50k gold - what how much platinum he bought.

3. Now Player B, the person coming into the store can see Player A's gold as this system will always show the best bang for your buck purchase. So to complicate this now

Player A, put his gold for 1 Plat for 100 gold at 8:00 AM

Player C, put his gold for 1 Plat for 99 gold at 8:30 AM

Player D, Put his gold for 1 plat for 100 gold at 9:00 AM

Player E, put his gold for 1 Platinum for 200 gold at 7:30 AM

What will happen it will be a mixture of FIFO (First In First Out) and Cheapest.

So the order people would buy gold from is:

Player C

Player A

Player D

Player E

Once a player loses all the funds or pulls out they're out. You cant add more funds or take out partial amount of funds to give those who put in their orders behind you a fair chance. If you where to purchase more platinum then people have gold there you would buy from Player C and A and D, showing you the varying price of platinum so it would look like this on their purchase screen.

Player 1 (aka C): 49,500 Gold for 500 Platinum

Player 2 (aka A)L 40,000 Gold for 400 Platinum

Is this alright with you

Yes/No

OR

We could use the auction house as is, but I see this as being a zeroes nightmare that people might try to abuse the system with taking millions of clicks to get to the cheapest offer. This only allows complete purchases, versus partial purchases. It will be impossible for certain people to get a specific number of platinum.

Yoss
04-11-2016, 11:56 AM
You're just describing a Bid/Ask Currency Exchange, and I agree it's a great idea. We asked for this all the way back in 2013 already.

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=26789

whiteyzz
04-11-2016, 12:21 PM
You're just describing a Bid/Ask Currency Exchange, and I agree it's a great idea. We asked for this all the way back in 2013 already.

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=26789

Yeah, I'm fine with the AH because for the most part because your only trading one card. When it comes to platinum and gold we're trading it in the thousands or possibly millions, it will be a sorting nightmare...?

How do you sort specifically for 1000 platinum for X gold?

By cost? Nope, you will get the best prices for the least amount of stuff so 1 platinum for 100 gold! If it's the most you could get just stupid ones like 1 platinum for 10,000,000 gold ect ect. By name, well that's going to be a mess of everything not being priced well unless people constantly do the math of how much gold for. We could make it you have to get ticket of 100,250,500,1000,2000 platinum,ect that you can redeem for that much platinum but then you get into the issue of what happens if you only want 1-99 platinum or 285 platinum or 507 platinum?

Edit: didn't read specifically for currency as the title, but honestly I think it needs to be brought up again as a bad steam review is pretty much a death of the game of really ever being popular. Trust me when I say the current community vs the mass of the steam community our good votes will be nothing.

nicosharp
04-11-2016, 12:30 PM
I will keep promoting this idea, because I think it is good, but like both of your systems, there should be a limit to what and how much can be traded for, for gold to plat.

For example with the launch of set 4:
Set 3 packs for gold
Set 4 packs for gold
100 plat for gold

All items can be posted by real players for their pre-set gold amount.
All items can have game determined price floors and price ceilings to eliminate gouging or leap-frogging.
All items could be PvE facing, to help build this transition from gold to plat and packs into the f2p farming interface.

(People could sell set1 and set2 packs for gold still on the AH - the above would only be the relevant client facing transactions promoted)

Tazelbain
04-11-2016, 01:08 PM
They could track exchange rate and handle currency exchange seamlessly. In a digital environment, having manually exchange currency is archaic.

whiteyzz
04-11-2016, 01:22 PM
I will keep promoting this idea, because I think it is good, but like both of your systems, there should be a limit to what and how much can be traded for, for gold to plat.

For example with the launch of set 4:
Set 3 packs for gold
Set 4 packs for gold
100 plat for gold

All items can be posted by real players for their pre-set gold amount.
All items can have game determined price floors and price ceilings to eliminate gouging or leap-frogging.
All items could be PvE facing, to help build this transition from gold to plat and packs into the f2p farming interface.

(People could sell set1 and set2 packs for gold still on the AH - the above would only be the relevant client facing transactions promoted)
I would do the reverse have no longer standard legal tournament sets become only purchasable by gold when set 5 rolls around, set 1 will become a legacy pack 1 and will go around 5 to 10k gold each on the AH. This will make every new set of cards make some of the more expensive rares like VK/Reese become available to everyone.

nicosharp
04-11-2016, 01:33 PM
That sounds like a horrible idea...

whiteyzz
04-11-2016, 01:46 PM
That sounds like a horrible idea...

Why would you think that, if they where to release set 3 and 4 with gold it would serve really no purpose as there is people selling it for less, unless the store under cuts them which the packs would still be sold for less. Set 1 when it's no longer tournament legal really serves no purpose on the PVP side, and the cards will only be good for PVE.

nicosharp
04-11-2016, 01:51 PM
Oh, sorry there is a disconnect - what I was talking about is 100% player to player trade being front loaded in PvE. Has nothing to do with HEX selling packs for gold....

whiteyzz
04-11-2016, 02:11 PM
Oh, sorry there is a disconnect - what I was talking about is 100% player to player trade being front loaded in PvE. Has nothing to do with HEX selling packs for gold.... AH so people see the new stuff on the same system for the gold to platinum trading, aka making it easier to buy mass packs. I though you wanted it so the store sold platinum/packs for gold for the most recent.

Honestly that is my bad.

nicosharp
04-11-2016, 02:24 PM
HEX would never sell packs directly for gold as it goes against their promise that they value our collections.

Yoss
04-11-2016, 04:57 PM
Yeah, I'm fine with the AH because for the most part because your only trading one card. When it comes to platinum and gold we're trading it in the thousands or possibly millions, it will be a sorting nightmare...?

How do you sort specifically for 1000 platinum for X gold?

By cost? Nope, you will get the best prices for the least amount of stuff so 1 platinum for 100 gold! If it's the most you could get just stupid ones like 1 platinum for 10,000,000 gold ect ect. By name, well that's going to be a mess of everything not being priced well unless people constantly do the math of how much gold for. We could make it you have to get ticket of 100,250,500,1000,2000 platinum,ect that you can redeem for that much platinum but then you get into the issue of what happens if you only want 1-99 platinum or 285 platinum or 507 platinum?

Edit: didn't read specifically for currency as the title, but honestly I think it needs to be brought up again as a bad steam review is pretty much a death of the game of really ever being popular. Trust me when I say the current community vs the mass of the steam community our good votes will be nothing.

This is pretty trivial to handle. You standardize the commodity for trade. You define either a "bag of X gold" or a "bag of Y plat" and you have pricing only in the opposing currency. Everyone is forced to deal in exactly the increment HXE defines as the unit of trade. You don't even have to use Bid/Ask at first; the existing AH will handle it well enough to start.

For example, you could define a "Bag of Gold" commodity to be 10,000g with price listed in Platinum. Since the price is in Platinum, that's what the AH fee will be taken against (it would be a Plat sink), while the Gold would pass from player to player with no tax. Alternately, you could define a "Bag of Platinum" commodity to be 100p with price listed in Gold. Now the AH fee would be in Gold (Gold sink), while the Platinum would pass without tax. Either way is fine, but I wouldn't do both; pick one or the other.

From a UI/QoL stand point, they could easily set up a parser so that you could list 1 million gold at once, and the system automatically parses it out into 100 separate listings (10kg each) on the AH.

Adding Bid/Ask for it would be nice as well, but not strictly required.

whiteyzz
04-11-2016, 07:18 PM
This is pretty trivial to handle. You standardize the commodity for trade. You define either a "bag of X gold" or a "bag of Y plat" and you have pricing only in the opposing currency. Everyone is forced to deal in exactly the increment HXE defines as the unit of trade. You don't even have to use Bid/Ask at first; the existing AH will handle it well enough to start.

For example, you could define a "Bag of Gold" commodity to be 10,000g with price listed in Platinum. Since the price is in Platinum, that's what the AH fee will be taken against (it would be a Plat sink), while the Gold would pass from player to player with no tax. Alternately, you could define a "Bag of Platinum" commodity to be 100p with price listed in Gold. Now the AH fee would be in Gold (Gold sink), while the Platinum would pass without tax. Either way is fine, but I wouldn't do both; pick one or the other.

From a UI/QoL stand point, they could easily set up a parser so that you could list 1 million gold at once, and the system automatically parses it out into 100 separate listings (10kg each) on the AH.

Adding Bid/Ask for it would be nice as well, but not strictly required.

The problem it becomes a mathematical nightmare as we all know the prices are going to be different.

1. The AH takes money from what you make, making it so getting a specific value more annoying then it needs to be, making CoD more viable. We want a system where it beats the CoD for people just going into the game. It is 100% better to use CoD for all trading. I mean I prob wouldn't have all the cards for the money i spent trading extra's for platinum. I think if it has to be on the AH remove any sink to it at all both sides want the specific amount or C.O.D is better. Now have all the users understand the market, what's the general gold per plat conversion. That's why most High currency cards are generally traded over C.O.D because the tax only really screws over the new players who go into the game and play, not deal with trade chat and glare at it for days.

2. Even if we remove the tax due to the AH being a complete nightmare it would be horrible for it to make a ticket sort of item, why now players have to look through pages within pages to know they're getting the best deal? You can search for 1000 gold but maybe someone is selling 100 or 250 or 500 or 395 or 867 platinum for less gold? How does that help the user, and the old you should do research and look at stuff is a bad idea.

I'm just saying it's the easiest way for people to get the best bang for their buck, people are always buying platinum or gold for the best value for X quantity vs the AH. Which is something I'm 100% sure everyone wants. We want the system to be brain dead simple especially for a steam launch. I hate being a doomsayer but trust me this game will be given so many pay to win reviews on steam with a negative rating, we don't want them going to chat which they will most likely never open and go straight to a negative pay 2 win play HS it's completely free review.

Biz
04-11-2016, 08:30 PM
they really should just have 2 buttons somewhere in the UI: buy gold & buy plat

let the market define the rate. they just need to seed it with some initial value which can quickly converge to the 'true' value after a few transactions

Fateanomaly
04-11-2016, 08:55 PM
Just look at how guildwars 2 do it.

whiteyzz
04-11-2016, 09:51 PM
Just look at how guildwars 2 do it.

Guild wars 2 is nice, but the problem I can see is the system chooses how much it's worth not the community. IN Gw2, you could buy crystals before there was any to sell there was a set rate, so technically there is unlimited pool to sell. But the market value depends on how much is in the gold pool vs the gem pool you really don't choose the price. Spiral knights back when I played it the players controlled the price but it was mostly the same system.

Yoss
04-11-2016, 10:07 PM
The problem it becomes a mathematical nightmare as we all know the prices are going to be different.
I'm not sure you understood my proposed system. Let me try again.


1. The AH takes money from what you make, making it so getting a specific value more annoying then it needs to be, making CoD more viable.
Let's say they do my idea and choose to have the commodity be bags of 100 plat. In this case, the buyer always knows exactly how much Plat he will get, and it's a nice number for getting exactly the right amount for tournament fees.


2. Even if we remove the tax due to the AH being a complete nightmare it would be horrible for it to make a ticket sort of item, why now players have to look through pages within pages to know they're getting the best deal? You can search for 1000 gold but maybe someone is selling 100 or 250 or 500 or 395 or 867 platinum for less gold? How does that help the user, and the old you should do research and look at stuff is a bad idea.
Again, if they do it smart so that all listings are for the same amount of currency (say 100p bags), then all you do is sort the listings and buy the cheapest one. No digging required.

EDIT:
And I agree the GW2 way is not ideal since it's not fully player driven.

whiteyzz
04-14-2016, 01:46 PM
I'm not sure you understood my proposed system. Let me try again.


Let's say they do my idea and choose to have the commodity be bags of 100 plat. In this case, the buyer always knows exactly how much Plat he will get, and it's a nice number for getting exactly the right amount for tournament fees.


Again, if they do it smart so that all listings are for the same amount of currency (say 100p bags), then all you do is sort the listings and buy the cheapest one. No digging required.

EDIT:
And I agree the GW2 way is not ideal since it's not fully player driven.

100P bags work, since there is only one thing, I thought you where going to add it like Ultima online's bank note where you put X amount on it.

Yoss
04-14-2016, 01:59 PM
As a side note, I'm actually fairly surprised they don't charge 5% on COD.

bootlace
04-15-2016, 10:01 AM
I like the Bag of Gold idea. While there's probably better implementations, this one seems like it would have the least overhead to get in the game asap.

nicosharp
04-15-2016, 10:37 AM
I like the Bag of Gold idea. While there's probably better implementations, this one seems like it would have the least overhead to get in the game asap.

I think you mean, Bag o' Plat? :) or BoP.

whiteyzz
04-15-2016, 03:34 PM
I think you mean, Bag o' Plat? :) or BoP. I think it would work both ways but I would hope for 1k bags of gold... and not 100...

*five years later*

YES I FINALLY GOT 10K GOLD!

Yoss
04-15-2016, 05:01 PM
I'd probably even do 10kg bags, if you're going BoG instead of BoP.

iSimeon
04-18-2016, 04:55 AM
This will cause gold-platina ratio to skyrocket

Yoss
04-18-2016, 09:45 AM
This will cause gold-platina ratio to skyrocket

A more useful statement would be: "This will cause the gold-platinum ratio to reach true market value." Your statement is just speculation that TMV is higher than the current Trade Chat price.

nicosharp
04-18-2016, 10:16 AM
So, I know this is a bit off topic, but just for anyone still watching before implementation:

If HXE wants Gold to be slightly more valued than Plat, they would implement: BoP
Example: Player 1 posts BoP 100 for 11,000 gold, Player 2 posts BoP 100 for 10,000 gold, Player 3 posts BoP 100 for 12,000 gold. Price Floor = 10,000 gold, Price Ceiling = 15,000 gold.

If HXE wants Plat to be slightly more valued than Gold, they would implement: BoG
Example: Player 1 posts BoG 10,000 for 100 plat, Player 2 posts BoG 10,000 for 90 plat, Player 3 posts BoG 10,000 for 75 plat. Price Floor = 67 plat, Price Ceiling = 100 plat.

Based on the examples - and Sorting highest to lowest, players will always be influenced to post closer to the price floor to influence their ability to sell.

The price floor and price ceiling could be variable, but imho, should be set to something to not allow the market to overly influence scarcity or abundance.

Yoss
04-18-2016, 02:44 PM
So, I know this is a bit off topic, but just for anyone still watching before implementation:

If HXE wants Gold to be slightly more valued than Plat, they would implement: BoP
Example: Player 1 posts BoP 100 for 11,000 gold, Player 2 posts BoP 100 for 10,000 gold, Player 3 posts BoP 100 for 12,000 gold. Price Floor = 10,000 gold, Price Ceiling = 15,000 gold.

If HXE wants Plat to be slightly more valued than Gold, they would implement: BoG
Example: Player 1 posts BoG 10,000 for 100 plat, Player 2 posts BoG 10,000 for 90 plat, Player 3 posts BoG 10,000 for 75 plat. Price Floor = 67 plat, Price Ceiling = 100 plat.

Based on the examples - and Sorting highest to lowest, players will always be influenced to post closer to the price floor to influence their ability to sell.

The price floor and price ceiling could be variable, but imho, should be set to something to not allow the market to overly influence scarcity or abundance.

Ew. Why put ceilings and floors?

nicosharp
04-18-2016, 02:48 PM
Ew. Why put ceilings and floors?

They don't 'have' to... I have personal feelings that a 'invisible hand' with marginal influence on ratios based on the player ran economy sales, would help facilitate the type of payout they wish free-to-play players are able to acquire in a given amount of time.

In other words, easier for developers to balance farm rates and gold-drop rates.