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midnight_rider
04-29-2016, 11:45 AM
Always looking for more dc dbg content I ran across this.

http://www.nrdfeed.com

There are a lot of gameplay videos consisting of competitive free for all and team games. The guys are trying to get an unnofficial 'official' tournament scene going. Notes about their system...

1. - Hero/Villain tiering. Each character is ranked in a 6 point tiering system. The idea is in drafting, each player can draft up to 6 points of characters, meaning you can draft a 5 and a 1, a 4 and a 2, 6 1's, etc.you can draft as many characters as you like as long as the total is 6 points or less. There is currently no 6 tier character.

2 - What cards are used? All base sets and expansions through Crisis 3 are used. There is a current banned list of 90 cards based on several factors. Too powerfu, rarely bought, etc.

3 - Super Villain stack. The Super Villain stack consists of 5 random SVs, including a random starting SV. Ghul, Savage, Flash, etc. The 5 SV idea is a way to keep games within a certain time limit. Also, every SV cost is +2 as a way to balance the use of multiple characters.

4 - Balancing act. A difference from the official rules is in buying cards. On your turn you may either buy lineup/kicks OR the current SV. So say you have 18 power and the SV costs 11. You take the SV, that's it. Remaining power is lost. This does two things. Somewhat keeps a balnce, but can also make for tougher turn decisions. Note that you can get an SV and still gain cards in the lineup with cards such as Cheetah, Teleportation, Shazam, Riddler, etc.

I'm sure the tiering list can be debated as usual, but these guys seem to do a lot of play testing . Any thoughts on this system? If nothing else, they are providing lots of video and other content for the game, which is something I've been looking for

gerrymul
04-29-2016, 01:25 PM
Interesting to see different play styles from groups. Their comment that equipment often sits around with no one purchasing it never happens in our play groups. It's the single biggest reason why we don't like Nightwing or Batman to win very often. If you are lucky enough to get the equipment showing up in the lineup on your turn, you can do well, but pretty much guaranteed it's not going to linger in the lineup just waiting for you to be able to buy it.

Carthain
04-30-2016, 05:39 AM
I can't get behind their vision for a competitive DCDBG -- because I don't like how they shaped the environment.

Banning cards because they are too strong -- sure. Removing some of the variability in the game (ie, take out the swingiest cards) can help players with more skill to rise to the top (the game has tons of variability, removing a little bit of it is fine.)

Banning cards because they are too weak or nobody picks them? That's horrible. You're actually removing skill from the game at that point. You remove the decision tree of when to leave them in the line up and have them clog things up, or do you not have enough for the SV and there's only 1 or 2 remaining, so you sacrifice some efficiency in your deck for points by buying a bunch of (often smaller) cards that other people don't want. Also, they remove some rare but interesting interactions from the game by banning some of the cards.

I really object to some of the cards that they've removed due to lack of play. It's their own lack of play of some of those that I'm guessing would skew their valuation of the super heroes/super villains that you draft.

Also - putting together all the cards from all the sets (minus the banned cards) increases variability, thus decreasing skill/knowledge of game. With that many cards, it's much more likely that you have a 'gap' of not seeing a certain card type for a while.

Also, I don't get why they don't like super villains with "Stack Ongoing" on them.

I'd have a set main deck built for it (or, multiple different ones). Knowing you're going to be using a specific sub-set of cards increases skill as you can more likely plan for possible themes and combos to help your deck out.

I'd also likely reduce the spread of point costs for your super hero/villains at the start. My instinct is that 6 points is too wide of a spread. Also it seems really odd that they'd limit you from buying the supervillain or cards from the line-up, but then put Kid Flash as only 1 point -- so you could (if you had enough power) just keep buying things from the line up constantly, thus "cheaply" removing that decision point that they intentionally put into the game.

I love that they like the game enough to codify the changes that they like - but the changes that they do don't always mesh with the idea of it being better for a competitive version of the game.

The4gotNdeath
05-02-2016, 04:26 PM
I can't get behind their vision for a competitive DCDBG -- because I don't like how they shaped the environment.

Banning cards because they are too strong -- sure. Removing some of the variability in the game (ie, take out the swingiest cards) can help players with more skill to rise to the top (the game has tons of variability, removing a little bit of it is fine.)

Banning cards because they are too weak or nobody picks them? That's horrible. You're actually removing skill from the game at that point. You remove the decision tree of when to leave them in the line up and have them clog things up, or do you not have enough for the SV and there's only 1 or 2 remaining, so you sacrifice some efficiency in your deck for points by buying a bunch of (often smaller) cards that other people don't want. Also, they remove some rare but interesting interactions from the game by banning some of the cards.

I really object to some of the cards that they've removed due to lack of play. It's their own lack of play of some of those that I'm guessing would skew their valuation of the super heroes/super villains that you draft.

Also - putting together all the cards from all the sets (minus the banned cards) increases variability, thus decreasing skill/knowledge of game. With that many cards, it's much more likely that you have a 'gap' of not seeing a certain card type for a while.

Also, I don't get why they don't like super villains with "Stack Ongoing" on them.

I'd have a set main deck built for it (or, multiple different ones). Knowing you're going to be using a specific sub-set of cards increases skill as you can more likely plan for possible themes and combos to help your deck out.

I'd also likely reduce the spread of point costs for your super hero/villains at the start. My instinct is that 6 points is too wide of a spread. Also it seems really odd that they'd limit you from buying the supervillain or cards from the line-up, but then put Kid Flash as only 1 point -- so you could (if you had enough power) just keep buying things from the line up constantly, thus "cheaply" removing that decision point that they intentionally put into the game.

I love that they like the game enough to codify the changes that they like - but the changes that they do don't always mesh with the idea of it being better for a competitive version of the game.

I defininetly agree that banning cards that "dont get played" is just silly. just cuz your play group doesnt buy rhose cards often that doesnt mean that the rest of dcdb players dont buy rhose cards (i am more than willing to buy cards like Talon or Batgirl from HU). Ill admit there are some cards that are just retarded stronk and need to be banned cough Man of steel cough, but dont hate on cards that you dont buy soley cuz you dont like em.

The4gotNdeath
05-02-2016, 04:27 PM
I can't get behind their vision for a competitive DCDBG -- because I don't like how they shaped the environment.

Banning cards because they are too strong -- sure. Removing some of the variability in the game (ie, take out the swingiest cards) can help players with more skill to rise to the top (the game has tons of variability, removing a little bit of it is fine.)

Banning cards because they are too weak or nobody picks them? That's horrible. You're actually removing skill from the game at that point. You remove the decision tree of when to leave them in the line up and have them clog things up, or do you not have enough for the SV and there's only 1 or 2 remaining, so you sacrifice some efficiency in your deck for points by buying a bunch of (often smaller) cards that other people don't want. Also, they remove some rare but interesting interactions from the game by banning some of the cards.

I really object to some of the cards that they've removed due to lack of play. It's their own lack of play of some of those that I'm guessing would skew their valuation of the super heroes/super villains that you draft.

Also - putting together all the cards from all the sets (minus the banned cards) increases variability, thus decreasing skill/knowledge of game. With that many cards, it's much more likely that you have a 'gap' of not seeing a certain card type for a while.

Also, I don't get why they don't like super villains with "Stack Ongoing" on them.

I'd have a set main deck built for it (or, multiple different ones). Knowing you're going to be using a specific sub-set of cards increases skill as you can more likely plan for possible themes and combos to help your deck out.

I'd also likely reduce the spread of point costs for your super hero/villains at the start. My instinct is that 6 points is too wide of a spread. Also it seems really odd that they'd limit you from buying the supervillain or cards from the line-up, but then put Kid Flash as only 1 point -- so you could (if you had enough power) just keep buying things from the line up constantly, thus "cheaply" removing that decision point that they intentionally put into the game.

I love that they like the game enough to codify the changes that they like - but the changes that they do don't always mesh with the idea of it being better for a competitive version of the game.

I defininetly agree that banning cards that "dont get played" is just silly. just cuz your play group doesnt buy rhose cards often that doesnt mean that the rest of dcdb players dont buy rhose cards (i am more than willing to buy cards like Talon or Batgirl from HU). Ill admit there are some cards that are just retarded stronk and need to be banned cough Man of steel cough, but dont hate on cards that you dont buy soley cuz you dont like em.

gerrymul
05-03-2016, 11:13 AM
Man of Steel, Ganthet, Felix Faust promo, Teen Titans Go!, and Arkillo from Heroes Unite are all game-breakers that take all the joy out of playing the game once someone gets a hold of them. Essentially any card that lets you gather up more than 2-3 cards from your discard pile makes for long drawn out turns and power rolling.

Carthain
05-03-2016, 12:56 PM
I've had turns that seemed to go on and on, and not used any of those ones. Or do you refer to just single cards that seem to let you recur 3+ cards at once?

gerrymul
05-03-2016, 05:10 PM
The turns that go on for ages are annoying (like the player who has half their deck made up of draw cards and a couple of locations), but I was more focused on the cards that let you grab lots of cards from your discard. MoS, TTG!, and Arkillo are especially bad as they place no limits on the amount that can be retreived. Ganthet & Felix Faust are at least somewhat limited, but they still pull a lot of cards compared to say Hector Hammond any 2 cards (cost 11) or Mystic Bolts any two cards cost 5 or less with different costs (cost 6). In my opinion they should have errata'd Man of Steel a long time ago to 1 of each name or 1 of each cost. Ganthet I understand because that card was really designed for Crisis 2, but in competitive play it's not much fun.

Carthain
05-03-2016, 08:20 PM
Okay, I think I got your point -- I often feel the same way. I don't like it when the only mitigating factor of a card is that sometimes your discard just isn't that big.