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LexLuthorJr
06-20-2016, 10:41 AM
I played at The Rogues Sneak Peek at Origins this weekend. It was a blast! Interesting new mechanics and a bunch of new cards. First of all, the included Rogues SuperVillains to play as...

Captain Cold
Mirror Master
Weather Wizard
Golden Glider
Heatwave
The Trickster

One of the new aspects of this Crossover Pack was the keyword Teamwork. This keyword basically means "Choose an opponent and play the top card of their deck." There are a few cards that allow you to Teamwork, but each of the Rogues SuperVillains have their own ability as well as "Teamwork: That foe gains 1 VP". So once per turn, each Rogue can play the top card of a foe's deck, then that foe gains 1 VP.

For example...
Weather Wizard
Discard 2 cards: Draw a card.
Teamwork: That foe gains 1 VP.


Let me know if I can/should spoil more.

BenJazz
06-20-2016, 11:57 AM
I would be curious if there was any hints as to a narrower time-frame than just Q3.

So as far as the Teamwork keyword, is the trigger for the Teamwork ability just playing the top card of an opponents deck (similar to how you would discard a card to activate the Time Travel keyword with Legion Pack)? Is that card that is played discarded afterword or does it go back on top of their deck? It seems like a very interesting concept that would actually work really well with Crisis-Mode.

I would ask about the Super-Heroes but I don't want to ruin the surprises to come. Can't wait to see more when Crypto makes the official announcement.

LexLuthorJr
06-20-2016, 12:48 PM
I would be curious if there was any hints as to a narrower time-frame than just Q3.

So as far as the Teamwork keyword, is the trigger for the Teamwork ability just playing the top card of an opponents deck (similar to how you would discard a card to activate the Time Travel keyword with Legion Pack)? Is that card that is played discarded afterword or does it go back on top of their deck? It seems like a very interesting concept that would actually work really well with Crisis-Mode.

I would ask about the Super-Heroes but I don't want to ruin the surprises to come. Can't wait to see more when Crypto makes the official announcement.

I asked about a release date. Matt said it wouldn't be for a while yet, as some things messed up the schedule. In fact, the actual cards weren't even printed. Everything was printed out as proxies on paper and put in sleeves.

Teamwork is basically just shorthand for "Choose a foe and play the top card of their deck." The card is played and then returned, such as with X-Ray Vision. There is no cost to Teamwork, but it is something that can only be done when a card instructs you to do so. There are, for example, some cards that say things like...

+1 Power and Teamwork a foe.

...while each Rogue SuperVillain has the text "Teamwork: That foe gains 1 VP." Again, there is no cost, but it can only be done once per turn and whichever foe you choose to Teamwork will gain 1 VP for you doing so.

SpiritDetective
06-20-2016, 01:35 PM
Is it straight up Competitive gameplay like JSA, Arrow, and Legion or is there a co-op element like in Watchmen?

Stryyder
06-20-2016, 02:26 PM
Really interested in this set. Hopefully I'll get a chance to try it at SDCC.

LexLuthorJr
06-20-2016, 05:34 PM
Is it straight up Competitive gameplay like JSA, Arrow, and Legion or is there a co-op element like in Watchmen?

Straight-up Competitive.

midnight_rider
06-20-2016, 10:23 PM
Let me know if I can/should spoil more.

Well, I don't know if you can do spoiler tags here. I'd like just a little fix personally. You can pm me if it's ok.

Two things. About how many new main deck cards, and who is the starting Super Hero on the stack?

LexLuthorJr
06-20-2016, 10:50 PM
Two things. About how many new main deck cards, and who is the starting Super Hero on the stack?

I didn't count the exact number of cards, but there did seem to be quite a few. Maybe about 20?

The starting SuperHero is The Flash.

SpiritDetective
06-21-2016, 09:10 AM
Is there a set order for the SuperHeroes? Does it go cost 8, 9, 10, etc?

Matt_Hyra
06-21-2016, 02:51 PM
Is there a set order for the SuperHeroes? Does it go cost 8, 9, 10, etc?

Yes, they go from 8 to 15.

BenJazz
06-21-2016, 04:29 PM
I didn't count the exact number of cards, but there did seem to be quite a few. Maybe about 20?

The starting SuperHero is The Flash.

Interesting about the starting Super Hero... I was thinking it was going to be a buildup of speedsters (such as Kid Flash, Impulse, Jessie Quick, etc.) with The Flash then being the 15 cost. Are the other Super Heroes speedsters or are they a variety of Heroes?

LexLuthorJr
06-21-2016, 11:18 PM
...with The Flash then being the 15 cost.

I didn't say he wasn't. ;)

They are mostly speedsters. There is one odd-one-out, strangely. I'll post a list later.

BenJazz
06-22-2016, 06:09 AM
I didn't say he wasn't. ;)

Hmm.... I don't know how to take this haha

midnight_rider
06-22-2016, 08:25 AM
Hmm.... I don't know how to take this haha

That's why I asked who the first hero was. I suspected it might be Flash, and if so, it would probably be entirely Flash related.

Tamahome
06-22-2016, 08:29 AM
Would love some spoilers. Feel free to pm me that would be awesome lex!!!

LexLuthorJr
06-22-2016, 08:30 AM
I believe the line up and costs were like this. I may have swapped a few of the middle ones around...

The Flash (8)
Jesse Quick (9)
Jay Garrick (10)
Hawkman (11)
Max Mercury (12)
Wally West (13)
Bart Allen (14)
The Flash (15)

Mostly speedsters, except Hawkman thrown in for some reason. Maybe because he was left out of the Super Heroes in Forever Evil, they put him in this?

BenJazz
06-22-2016, 09:18 AM
I believe the line up and costs were like this. I may have swapped a few of the middle ones around...

The Flash (8)
Jesse Quick (9)
Jay Garrick (10)
Hawkman (11)
Max Mercury (12)
Wally West (13)
Bart Allen (14)
The Flash (15)

Mostly speedsters, except Hawkman thrown in for some reason. Maybe because he was left out of the Super Heroes in Forever Evil, they put him in this?

I was was curious who they would add in as there are only so many mainstream speedsters. I was thinking they may put in John Fox or maybe even Barry's kids Don and Dawn (Tornado Twins) but I guess they are on the more obscure side. I wonder how different each of The Flash cards will be (given we have one already from Forever Evil).

Speaking of Forever Evil, I realized that the Teamwork ability for all the Super-Villains requires VP tokens. Obviously we kinda expected this crossover to lean towards FE as a preferred pairing set (due to the reversed character roles) but are there any other cards or abilities that rely on VP tokens that would hinder a person who doesn't own FE? **Giving Crypto the benefit of the doubt, there may be an alternate rules option that we don't know about that addresses how to play if you don't own FE)**

SpiritDetective
06-22-2016, 09:50 AM
I believe the line up and costs were like this. I may have swapped a few of the middle ones around...

The Flash (8)
Jesse Quick (9)
Jay Garrick (10)
Hawkman (11)
Max Mercury (12)
Wally West (13)
Bart Allen (14)
The Flash (15)

Mostly speedsters, except Hawkman thrown in for some reason. Maybe because he was left out of the Super Heroes in Forever Evil, they put him in this?

Are The Flash (8) and The Flash (15) both Barry Allen? I guess that works if he made a time remnant...


I was was curious who they would add in as there are only so many mainstream speedsters. I was thinking they may put in John Fox or maybe even Barry's kids Don and Dawn (Tornado Twins) but I guess they are on the more obscure side. I wonder how different each of The Flash cards will be (given we have one already from Forever Evil).

Speaking of Forever Evil, I realized that the Teamwork ability for all the Super-Villains requires VP tokens. Obviously we kinda expected this crossover to lean towards FE as a preferred pairing set (due to the reversed character roles) but are there any other cards or abilities that rely on VP tokens that would hinder a person who doesn't own FE? **Giving Crypto the benefit of the doubt, there may be an alternate rules option that we don't know about that addresses how to play if you don't own FE)**

I'm assuming that the game will come with a small token sheet kind of like Crisis 3.

BenJazz
06-22-2016, 10:41 AM
Are The Flash (8) and The Flash (15) both Barry Allen? I guess that works if he made a time remnant...



I'm assuming that the game will come with a small token sheet kind of like Crisis 3.

I would assume it is Barry for both since everyone else who has been the Flash at one time or another is already a different Super-Hero. I thought it would have been funny to just have all the Super-Heroes be the different speedsters in their Flash costumes and all the cards be named The Flash (You could even play a game of Flash, Flash, Hawkman haha)

For the frequency you can Teamwork from your over-sized (every turn) I don't see a small token sheet being enough (even the size of the one from Crisis 3). Additionally, I feel like I already have enough from Crisis 3 and FE that including another sheet of just VP tokens would feel wasteful when there could be more cards instead. Token sheets are not that cheap to include.

LexLuthorJr
06-22-2016, 11:19 AM
Speaking of Forever Evil, I realized that the Teamwork ability for all the Super-Villains requires VP tokens. Obviously we kinda expected this crossover to lean towards FE as a preferred pairing set (due to the reversed character roles) but are there any other cards or abilities that rely on VP tokens that would hinder a person who doesn't own FE? **Giving Crypto the benefit of the doubt, there may be an alternate rules option that we don't know about that addresses how to play if you don't own FE)**

There are a number of cards in Rogues that give and take VPs. If you are just referring to the physical VP tokens, we just use dice anyway.

Matt_Hyra
06-22-2016, 11:24 AM
After placing VP tokens in FE and Crisis 3, this Crossover won't contain any.
Use some coins or M&Ms if necessary...

LexLuthorJr
06-22-2016, 11:26 AM
Are The Flash (8) and The Flash (15) both Barry Allen? I guess that works if he made a time remnant...

Not quite the reason. The Flash (8) has this (approximate) text...

When you defeat The Flash, remove him from the game. Gain 6 VP.

So you don't get the card, just a VP bonus. Thematically, you have defeated The Flash, so he ran away. At the end of the game, he runs back and is tougher.

LexLuthorJr
06-22-2016, 11:26 AM
After placing VP tokens in FE and Crisis 3, this Crossover won't contain any.
Use some coins or M&Ms if necessary...

I'm worried I'd eat my VPs...

midnight_rider
06-22-2016, 12:56 PM
I'm worried I'd eat my VPs...

Then just replace them with Skittles, duh.

BenJazz
06-22-2016, 01:04 PM
Then just replace them with Skittles, duh.

But I want to task the magical Flash rainbow (made entirely of varying shades of red and yellow)!

LexLuthorJr
06-23-2016, 03:43 PM
Teamwork is basically just shorthand for "Choose a foe and play the top card of their deck." The card is played and then returned, such as with X-Ray Vision. There is no cost to Teamwork, but it is something that can only be done when a card instructs you to do so.

Just to clarify, you choose the foe and then reveal the card. It's like Rorschach, I should have said.

TenDropChris
06-23-2016, 07:14 PM
After placing VP tokens in FE and Crisis 3, this Crossover won't contain any.
Use some coins or M&Ms if necessary...

M&M's wouldn't work. We'd have too many people losing because they ate their points.

Edit: And...I just noticed how many people made the same joke before me. ....really should have read more of the thread first.

N-Finite
06-25-2016, 10:19 PM
I wish if CZ had to remake a particular character, like The Flash, they would rename the card to their real name or something of the sort. I personally would have kept the card names different. With The Rogues, I would have name The Flash to Barry Allen for the first/last Superhero instead. The base set had Catwoman. Then Forever evil had Catwoman again. I would have renamed her as Selena Kyle. Another option could have been to let Catwoman keep her the same name, but she'd be a villain instead. The only problem I see using my suggestion is that it could hurt future expansions for particular characters.

BenJazz
06-26-2016, 11:05 AM
I wish if CZ had to remake a particular character, like The Flash, they would rename the card to their real name or something of the sort. I personally would have kept the card names different. With The Rogues, I would have name The Flash to Barry Allen for the first/last Superhero instead. The base set had Catwoman. Then Forever evil had Catwoman again. I would have renamed her as Selena Kyle. Another option could have been to let Catwoman keep her the same name, but she'd be a villain instead. The only problem I see using my suggestion is that it could hurt future expansions for particular characters.

I think if Crypto has Barry Allen for the cost 8 Super-Hero and then The Flash for the cost 15 I would be fine with it. They could even do a collage of the different Flashes/Speedsters on the card so it feels like a bigger culmination for the last fight.

StormKing
06-26-2016, 05:12 PM
Cards having the same name is often part of the intent when designing sets. Names, while not used as often as type or cost, can be part of a card's ability, like The Dark Knight or Hawk and Dove.

infamousfj
07-08-2016, 02:05 PM
Why not put the one of the reverse flash in as an enemy? All of them have canon vendettas against the rogues.

LexLuthorJr
07-08-2016, 02:43 PM
I wish if CZ had to remake a particular character, like The Flash, they would rename the card to their real name or something of the sort. I personally would have kept the card names different. With The Rogues, I would have name The Flash to Barry Allen for the first/last Superhero instead. The base set had Catwoman. Then Forever evil had Catwoman again. I would have renamed her as Selena Kyle. Another option could have been to let Catwoman keep her the same name, but she'd be a villain instead. The only problem I see using my suggestion is that it could hurt future expansions for particular characters.

Keep in mind that you never get to gain either Flash in Rogues. One goes away as soon as it is defeated, while the other ends the game.

However, the idea of multiple cards with the same name in different sets doesn't bother me. Rarely do we mix sets, so it really is never much of an issue.

LexLuthorJr
07-08-2016, 02:45 PM
Why not put the one of the reverse flash in as an enemy? All of them have canon vendettas against the rogues.

Probably so the set could have a complete "Super Hero" stack. Reverse Flash is a Super Villain and would need to be labeled as such and would therefore break up the designed stack.

SpiritDetective
07-08-2016, 03:52 PM
How well does Captain Boomerang fit in with this Crossover Pack?

BenJazz
07-08-2016, 03:55 PM
Probably so the set could have a complete "Super Hero" stack. Reverse Flash is a Super Villain and would need to be labeled as such and would therefore break up the designed stack.

But... But... But... HAWKMAN?!?! ...Why?

StormKing
07-09-2016, 07:21 AM
How well does Captain Boomerang fit in with this Crossover Pack?

He was designed with the Crossover Pack in mind, actually.

LexLuthorJr
07-11-2016, 08:18 AM
But... But... But... HAWKMAN?!?! ...Why?

My only guess is that he was left out of the Forever Evil Super Heroes, so they added him to this just so you could add him to the rest of the JLA if you wanted.

BenJazz
07-11-2016, 09:11 AM
My only guess is that he was left out of the Forever Evil Super Heroes, so they added him to this just so you could add him to the rest of the JLA if you wanted.

I can kinda see that... but the Forever Evil Super-Heroes that were featured prominently in the Forever Evil Series/Tie-Ins are also a mix of Heroes that were over-sized characters in the Base set and Crisis 1 (with the exception of Shazam!) so there are a lot of characters "left out". Hawkman is more of a JSA character at any rate so it feels odd. I don't think he has ever had a any significant relationship with the Flash family (outside of him and Jay being on JSA together) so I am at a loss. Now I could see Kyle Rayner since him and Wally had a "newcomer" relationship from Morrison's JLA run but I would see that as a stretch (be it not as much as Hawkman). I still think John Fox (or even Johnny Quick) would have been a better choice but I respect Crypto to make the decision they feel comfortable with.

N-Finite
07-13-2016, 07:09 AM
I would have made Hawkman a promo instead if that's the case and added someone else.

DimeDrl
07-14-2016, 11:36 AM
Only main sets get promos. And large events.

BenJazz
07-27-2016, 09:34 AM
So... should Gen-Pop expect more details for this pack at GenCon next week?

Matt_Hyra
07-27-2016, 10:12 AM
So... should Gen-Pop expect more details for this pack at GenCon next week?

Probably not. We'll announce a release date when we have one.

LexLuthorJr
08-08-2016, 12:33 PM
But... But... But... HAWKMAN?!?! ...Why?

I actually asked this at GenCon. Turns out Hawkman's very first appearance in DC Comics was in an issue of The Flash.

shadowking01
08-10-2016, 04:18 PM
Any quarter even, on when this set is due out

LexLuthorJr
08-10-2016, 07:00 PM
I asked at GenCon and was told it would be out before the end of the year, but that's about it.

andymo24
08-16-2016, 06:58 AM
Can anyone spoil Hawkman's details so we can see if he fits reasonably with the FE super hero stack?

SasukeSama21
09-07-2016, 06:38 AM
Any updates on a release date yet?

Matt_Hyra
09-07-2016, 10:40 AM
Any updates on a release date yet?

Not yet. It will be early(?) next year.

SasukeSama21
09-07-2016, 11:12 AM
Well that sucks! Any specific reason why it's being held up?

Matt_Hyra
09-07-2016, 02:25 PM
Several little things; nothing specific.

BenJazz
09-07-2016, 07:50 PM
Maybe the Rogues had a Rebellion! (hopefully people get that one, otherwise I quit lol)

Arrojacast
10-08-2016, 08:04 PM
I like how we start with
"This set introduces the teamwork keyword"
and follow up with
"This will be a fully competitive set.
10/10 guys, keep up the good work.
Though, if I really had an actual problem with the set, it would probably be that the first (and probably only based on the current trend) of the keyword teamwork is in a villain set.

SpiritDetective
10-10-2016, 12:29 PM
Any spoilers from New York Comic Con?