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unLimitedEnds
08-01-2016, 01:39 PM
I was wondering what the two new game promos are going to be available this weekend. If anyone can take a picture and post them here so I can see, it would be great. Thanks!

And on another note, would anyone happen to know when these two promos would be available for purchase?

SpiritDetective
08-01-2016, 02:07 PM
My guess is they'll hit Board Game Geek early 2017.

Expect to see the promos hit Ebay during/after Gen Con.

Tamahome
08-04-2016, 05:18 PM
Promos are Vixen and black lightning. I'll post stuff later

BenJazz
08-05-2016, 07:03 AM
Great choices. Kudos to Crypto! Now I have to figure out which sets I want to pair these with in the future lol

I have a feeling that Vixen will be paired with Heroes Unite/Birds of Prey and Black Lightning with Crisis 4 (hopefully with some "OUTSIDE" characters ;)).

SpiritDetective
08-05-2016, 10:15 AM
Well what do you know? Black Lightning is already listed on Ebay (http://http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Deck-Building-Game-Black-Lightning-Promo-Card-Gen-Con-Gencon-2016-Promotional-/282123206201?hash=item41afda7e39:g:SD8AAOSwnQhXo3x 7).

Black Lightning
Super Hero

Discard X cards: Put a non-Starter card with cost X from your discard pile into your hand.

I'm curious of this power can be used more than once per turn and if you are allowed to pull Weakness cards. My gut says no since they have no type.

BenJazz
08-05-2016, 11:47 AM
Since the card doesn't say "non-starter type" card I would think weaknesses would be fair game. The other concern would be if X was required to be greater than 0 but I assume that would have been on the card (like how Frankenstein can pick up Royal Flush's 0 VP with its X). I would also assume that you can use it multiple times o your turn since King Shark uses the similar bold text to denote a repeatable action.

I was thinking about this and I realized that you could potentially pick up your entire discard pile if you have 3 weaknesses and a few cost 3 cards. Just keep picking up the weaknesses and discarding them for the cost 3's. Then discard cost 3's plus the weaknesses for higher cost cards. Repeat and you can even grab S-V's if you discard is big enough.

Maybe the designers will post an addendum haha

SpiritDetective
08-05-2016, 12:05 PM
I was thinking about this and I realized that you could potentially pick up your entire discard pile if you have 3 weaknesses and a few cost 3 cards. Just keep picking up the weaknesses and discarding them for the cost 3's. Then discard cost 3's plus the weaknesses for higher cost cards. Repeat and you can even grab S-V's if you discard is big enough.


I came to this conclusion as well.

Tamahome
08-05-2016, 04:54 PM
Won't let me upload a pic but vixen is "once during each of your turns reveal the top card of your deck, if it's a hero, +2 power. Villian: destroy a card in your hand equipment: super villains cost 3 less to buy. Super power - draw a card

Tamahome
08-05-2016, 04:56 PM
I talked to Nate at gencon today, he confirmed that you can use black lightning multiple times per turn.

Tamahome
08-05-2016, 04:59 PM
I'll ask Nate and Matt tomorrow about the never ending weakness loop if they don't post on this thread, but since you can pay 0 vps with Frankenstein to gain a royal flush gang, that this might also be possible.

Matt_Hyra
08-05-2016, 07:01 PM
Yes, you can use it multiple times. Weaknesses work well with Black Lightning. Too bad you don't start with any.

Akatzukilord
08-05-2016, 07:19 PM
This doesn't work, you only put one card into your hand per activation, so even if you discard 2 cards you can only gain one weakness

GuruGuru214
08-05-2016, 07:34 PM
Doesn't matter. You can activate as many times as you like, and Weaknesses have a cost of 0.

Akatzukilord
08-05-2016, 07:58 PM
But you still only get one card, so even if you discard one card you only gain one weakness card. In the end it is +0 card advantage

GuruGuru214
08-06-2016, 01:26 AM
Except that a Weakness is cost 0. Black Lightning has you discard a number of cards equal to the cost of the card you put back in your hand. If you discard zero cards, you can put a Weakness into your hand.

Also, I don't know if you realize, but the post directly above yours is the game's creator, and quite possibly the person who wrote the card, saying that this works.

Akatzukilord
08-06-2016, 03:10 AM
Yeah sry but it seems a bit strange to me. I'm a former yugioh player and in yugioh you have to pay the cost or meet the requirements to activate a effect. You cant just activate a card and select to discard 0 cards to draw 0 cards. But yugioh is a different game :D
I would still assume that you have to at least discard one card, but just my opinion:)

GuruGuru214
08-06-2016, 06:01 AM
The thing with the Cerberus Engine is that there's quite a few cards whose timing you can choose at will. Several of the oversized Super Heroes and ongoing cards can be triggered at any time you desire, so long as you meet their requirements. And there's quite a few unusual things you can do with cards that use the term "equal to".

For example, Frankenstein from Crisis 3 allows you to pay VP tokens when you play it, and gain a card from the destroyed pile with VP equal to the tokens you paid. If you choose, you can pay 0 VP tokens when you play it and gain a Starter from the destroyed pile.

Paying zero in these circumstances is an unusual strategy, but there's nothing preventing it, and it can be used in many surprising ways.

SpiritDetective
08-06-2016, 11:06 AM
Won't let me upload a pic but vixen is "once during each of your turns reveal the top card of your deck, if it's a hero, +2 power. Villian: destroy a card in your hand equipment: super villains cost 3 less to buy. Super power - draw a card

If the revealed card is a Super power, do you simply draw that revealed card?

Vixen is going to work wonders with Shapeshift and Element Woman.

Matt_Hyra
08-06-2016, 09:07 PM
If the revealed card is a Super power, do you simply draw that revealed card?

Vixen is going to work wonders with Shapeshift and Element Woman.

Yes, you would draw that revealed card.

shadowking01
08-07-2016, 11:13 AM
What sets would these new heroes go in, obviously Forever Evil is out, I'm guessing Teen Titans, not sure though, I know Joker last summer went in Forever Evil, Skitter from last years Gen Con went in teen titans, just unsure where these new promos would go in

SasukeSama21
08-08-2016, 10:28 AM
I think discarding 0 cards is cheap and annoying. your not actually discarding anything and therefor the power shouldn't be activated.

LexLuthorJr
08-08-2016, 12:14 PM
I think discarding 0 cards is cheap and annoying. your not actually discarding anything and therefor the power shouldn't be activated.

Since it is non-Starter cards only, though, the only cards you can get back by discarding zero are Weaknesses. Those are really only helpful to have in your hand when you need to discard for an effect or destroy a card in your hand. Other than that, there really isn't much else you can do with it.

SasukeSama21
08-08-2016, 12:37 PM
That's the whole point of a weakness card. It's not supposed to be useful, it's supposed to be worthless!

SpiritDetective
08-08-2016, 01:52 PM
Tell that to Bizarro.

Akatzukilord
08-08-2016, 03:07 PM
I think discarding 0 cards is cheap and annoying. your not actually discarding anything and therefor the power shouldn't be activated.

Yes, I definitely agree with you :)

SasukeSama21
08-08-2016, 06:13 PM
Tell that to Bizarro.

Fine, but only for him.

BenJazz
08-08-2016, 09:08 PM
Fine, but only for him.

You would also need to tell that to the other Bizzarro (Base set or FE), Ganthet (C2), Doctor Light (TT), Dick Grayson (TT), Moira Queen (X2), White Lantern Deadman (C2) and Kyle Rayner (C2) since they all look at weakness as a card for VP's or green color.... how dare they use those weakness lol

GuruGuru214
08-09-2016, 04:52 AM
Don't forget anybody who has the Blackgate Prison or The Rot locations, making your Weaknesses someone else's problem via cards like Aquaman, Crisis Harley Quinn, or Mallet, or using them to activate Time Travel, not to mention beating Crisis cards like Rise of the Dead and Rise of the Rot.

Weaknesses are a drain on your deck, but there's no reason you can't still use them in a number of creative ways.

SasukeSama21
08-09-2016, 05:51 AM
You would also need to tell that to the other Bizzarro (Base set or FE), Ganthet (C2), Doctor Light (TT), Dick Grayson (TT), Moira Queen (X2), White Lantern Deadman (C2) and Kyle Rayner (C2) since they all look at weakness as a card for VP's or green color.... how dare they use those weakness lol


Don't forget anybody who has the Blackgate Prison or The Rot locations, making your Weaknesses someone else's problem via cards like Aquaman, Crisis Harley Quinn, or Mallet, or using them to activate Time Travel, not to mention beating Crisis cards like Rise of the Dead and Rise of the Rot.

Weaknesses are a drain on your deck, but there's no reason you can't still use them in a number of creative ways.

Not saying characters can't or shouldn't use weakness cards. It's better for us as a player if they do, and finding creative ways to use them is good. I just don't happen to agree with Activating a power, without actually taking an action. Discarding 0 cards, is the same as not using the power IMO.

BenJazz
08-09-2016, 11:09 AM
That's fair. It reminds me of the shuffle your deck and no cards in your deck conundrum. It is definitely a different way of using actions than we have seen previously (if you exclude Frankenstein and his X VP discard). Crypto is pushing mechanics into new territory with these new sets.

LexLuthorJr
08-09-2016, 02:52 PM
Not saying characters can't or shouldn't use weakness cards. It's better for us as a player if they do, and finding creative ways to use them is good. I just don't happen to agree with Activating a power, without actually taking an action. Discarding 0 cards, is the same as not using the power IMO.

I get your point, but it basically comes down to a balance issue. Is it too powerful to be able to get a Weakness back from your discard for free? No, I don't think so.

Matt specifically pointed out using Weaknesses with Black Lightning, so that indicates it was a consideration during design. They could have worded his effect differently to get the same point across, but it likely would have ended up being much more wordy. They would have had to add something like "If you discard no cards this way, you may return a Weakness to your hand." The way it is written now is very concise and understandable.

gerrymul
08-09-2016, 04:44 PM
I think the concern is the multiple times per turn one might use it to pick up essentially their entire discard pile hypothetically, or at least trade up for more powerful cards in you discard

Akatzukilord
08-09-2016, 05:08 PM
I think the concern is the multiple times per turn one might use it to pick up essentially their entire discard pile hypothetically, or at least trade up for more powerful cards in you discard

the problem is that if you have like 3 or 4 weakness cards, his power becomes really broken because you can do the loop and pick up everything. you could even pick up cards that you just bought this turn and use them to buy even more cards.

BenJazz
08-09-2016, 06:12 PM
the problem is that if you have like 3 or 4 weakness cards, his power becomes really broken because you can do the loop and pick up everything. you could even pick up cards that you just bought this turn and use them to buy even more cards.

That is why you can only buy 1 supervillain, kicks and the lineup on your turn. Unless someone starts to pull out Pandora's box a lot, the lineup shouldn't get much over 5 or 6 cards.

I have seen people pull of similar power generation with Man of Steel and/or Parallax. Once you get above 50 power you really can't do much with the extra.

Besides, it will be your foes and S-V's who determine how many weaknesses you get. The player won't have control over IF they can pull this off.

LexLuthorJr
08-10-2016, 07:51 AM
the problem is that if you have like 3 or 4 weakness cards, his power becomes really broken because you can do the loop and pick up everything. you could even pick up cards that you just bought this turn and use them to buy even more cards.

While that is a good tactic, it won't happen that often. Many times you won't have any Weaknesses in your discard, let alone a discard pile at all. Also remember that you will therefore have a bunch of Weaknesses in your deck. That will still slow your deck down and cause you to lose VP at the end of the game. Don't get me wrong; It is a very good power. I'm not convinced it's broken, though.

SasukeSama21
08-10-2016, 08:06 AM
While that is a good tactic, it won't happen that often. Many times you won't have any Weaknesses in your discard, let alone a discard pile at all. Also remember that you will therefore have a bunch of Weaknesses in your deck. That will still slow your deck down and cause you to lose VP at the end of the game. Don't get me wrong; It is a very good power. I'm not convinced it's broken, though.

In using the power you would always end up discarding all the weaknesses back to your discard pile every turn. They would only end up in your draw pile if you drew all the cards in your deck, and had to reshuffle it.

Akatzukilord
08-10-2016, 08:39 AM
While that is a good tactic, it won't happen that often. Many times you won't have any Weaknesses in your discard, let alone a discard pile at all. Also remember that you will therefore have a bunch of Weaknesses in your deck. That will still slow your deck down and cause you to lose VP at the end of the game. Don't get me wrong; It is a very good power. I'm not convinced it's broken, though.

I still think that you should at least discard one card to activate his power. I know that this crazy loop wont happen really often, but it is still there . Also Parallax and Man of Steel are expensive cards that you have to get first, while Black Lightnings power is always on. I dont think that his normal power is good or broken, it is just that the loop is stupid :D

andymo24
08-10-2016, 02:29 PM
Note that without weakness cards, Black Lightning's power is almost useless. I think everyone should do some play testing before they decide where he fits in on the Hero Tiers. Remember that you don't actually have to have the physical promo card in your possession to play as him, or any other promo hero...

Akatzukilord
08-10-2016, 04:07 PM
Note that without weakness cards, Black Lightning's power is almost useless. I think everyone should do some play testing before they decide where he fits in on the Hero Tiers. Remember that you don't actually have to have the physical promo card in your possession to play as him, or any other promo hero...

I think even without weakness cards his power isnt useless. He has a good early game like Batgirl, you can just discard your vulnerabilities and punches and get your 2-3 cost cards early.

shadowking01
08-10-2016, 04:17 PM
Anyone know where these cards would go as far as the sets are involved?

Nidian
08-10-2016, 05:02 PM
The real question here is "What are the 2016 volunteer promos?" I will gladly grant one wish to whoever can get me a set.

andymo24
08-11-2016, 07:09 AM
I think even without weakness cards his power isnt useless. He has a good early game like Batgirl, you can just discard your vulnerabilities and punches and get your 2-3 cost cards early.

Played a game last night - Heroes Unite with some Crisis 1 and 2 cards thrown in (like 16 total) and 6 HU and 6 Crisis 2 IM super villains (no repeat villain names), original Ra's Al Ghul to start. I was Black Lightning, and there was also Martian Manhunter, Starfire, and Vixen.

Vixen did not do well - had way too many villains. Starfire also did poorly. Black Lightning got Batgirl first turn which really helped (and allowed me to get John Constantine on my second turn), discarding vul/punches to use his power and getting to pick up two punches. It took forever to get any weakness cards, but I built a very strong deck thanks to Constantine and had 4 power rings at one point.

Once you get one or two weaknesses, it's game over. Discard 0 to get your weakness. Discard weakness to get a 1 cost card, or 2 weaknesses to get a 2 cost card. Discard the cards you picked up and your weakness to get a 3 cost card. Repeat above to get all of your 3 cost cards, use them to get all your 4 cost, repeat, get your 5 cost, repeat... pick up your entire discard pile, including all super villains. Repeat to pick up any cards you buy. Repeat every turn until you have to make a new deck.

Black Lightning won with 68, MM had 60. Black lightning only won because I bought the last SV along with 2 kicks and the lineup, and had 3 power rings. I was only able to play the weakness loop twice, close to the end of the game.

I'm not sure if Black Lightning is broken. He might be the best hero now, or at least top tier along with lucky Aquaman and Shazam! but without weakness cards he can be useful but not abusive. It's up to the rest of the players to make sure they don't give him any weaknesses, and hope the super villains don't either.

SpiritDetective
08-11-2016, 09:21 AM
Played a game last night - Heroes Unite with some Crisis 1 and 2 cards thrown in (like 16 total) and 6 HU and 6 Crisis 2 IM super villains (no repeat villain names), original Ra's Al Ghul to start. I was Black Lightning, and there was also Martian Manhunter, Starfire, and Vixen.

Vixen did not do well - had way too many villains. Starfire also did poorly. Black Lightning got Batgirl first turn which really helped (and allowed me to get John Constantine on my second turn), discarding vul/punches to use his power and getting to pick up two punches. It took forever to get any weakness cards, but I built a very strong deck thanks to Constantine and had 4 power rings at one point.

Once you get one or two weaknesses, it's game over. Discard 0 to get your weakness. Discard weakness to get a 1 cost card, or 2 weaknesses to get a 2 cost card. Discard the cards you picked up and your weakness to get a 3 cost card. Repeat above to get all of your 3 cost cards, use them to get all your 4 cost, repeat, get your 5 cost, repeat... pick up your entire discard pile, including all super villains. Repeat to pick up any cards you buy. Repeat every turn until you have to make a new deck.

Black Lightning won with 68, MM had 60. Black lightning only won because I bought the last SV along with 2 kicks and the lineup, and had 3 power rings. I was only able to play the weakness loop twice, close to the end of the game.

I'm not sure if Black Lightning is broken. He might be the best hero now, or at least top tier along with lucky Aquaman and Shazam! but without weakness cards he can be useful but not abusive. It's up to the rest of the players to make sure they don't give him any weaknesses, and hope the super villains don't either.

As Black Lightning, did you pick up Red Tornado?

andymo24
08-11-2016, 09:49 AM
As Black Lightning, did you pick up Red Tornado?

If only. Didn't get the chance.

Akatzukilord
08-11-2016, 09:54 AM
Played a game last night - Heroes Unite with some Crisis 1 and 2 cards thrown in (like 16 total) and 6 HU and 6 Crisis 2 IM super villains (no repeat villain names), original Ra's Al Ghul to start. I was Black Lightning, and there was also Martian Manhunter, Starfire, and Vixen.

Vixen did not do well - had way too many villains. Starfire also did poorly. Black Lightning got Batgirl first turn which really helped (and allowed me to get John Constantine on my second turn), discarding vul/punches to use his power and getting to pick up two punches. It took forever to get any weakness cards, but I built a very strong deck thanks to Constantine and had 4 power rings at one point.

Once you get one or two weaknesses, it's game over. Discard 0 to get your weakness. Discard weakness to get a 1 cost card, or 2 weaknesses to get a 2 cost card. Discard the cards you picked up and your weakness to get a 3 cost card. Repeat above to get all of your 3 cost cards, use them to get all your 4 cost, repeat, get your 5 cost, repeat... pick up your entire discard pile, including all super villains. Repeat to pick up any cards you buy. Repeat every turn until you have to make a new deck.

Black Lightning won with 68, MM had 60. Black lightning only won because I bought the last SV along with 2 kicks and the lineup, and had 3 power rings. I was only able to play the weakness loop twice, close to the end of the game.

I'm not sure if Black Lightning is broken. He might be the best hero now, or at least top tier along with lucky Aquaman and Shazam! but without weakness cards he can be useful but not abusive. It's up to the rest of the players to make sure they don't give him any weaknesses, and hope the super villains don't either.

I think he is broken if the loop is allowed. I tested him in teen titans set and he can be really op. Once you get 2-3 weaknesses and have cards like Bumblebee or Molecular Vibration its game over. You can even set up your deck with Aqualad so that you always have at least 5 cards to draw and can repeat the loop every turn.

andymo24
08-11-2016, 01:13 PM
I think he is broken if the loop is allowed. I tested him in teen titans set and he can be really op. Once you get 2-3 weaknesses and have cards like Bumblebee or Molecular Vibration its game over. You can even set up your deck with Aqualad so that you always have at least 5 cards to draw and can repeat the loop every turn.

Wow. I didn't even think of Teen Titans (we only play TT every few months to remind ourselves why we don't play it). That's unplayable. Infinite power, literally.

Mac_Apple
08-11-2016, 02:02 PM
I've been playing Black Lightning. It's pretty obvious that without an "X can't equal 0" ruling, he's very broken. He can basically mini-Ganthet every turn he has a discard pile with a number of Weaknesses.

I played him with a house rule that removed the loop and he was still very effective and fun, you just have to grab the right cheap cards. For example, Plastic Man, Hawkgirl, Manhunter, Talon, and Atom. Also, grabbing cards that allow draw power that makes your hand exceed 5 cards is important, too, such as Locations (Oa, New Genesis and similar), as well as cards like Fastest Man, Despero, and Mind Control Hat.

Black Lightning reliably turns bad turns into decent turns, and I think that's the intention of the card, not to brokenly grab his entire discard pile multiple times per turn. With the loop is fixed, he's probably in my top 3 favorite Characters to play as.


Wow. I didn't even think of Teen Titans (we only play TT every few months to remind ourselves why we don't play it). That's unplayable. Infinite power, literally.Yeah, the Bumblebee loop is a terrifyingly easy thing to pull off.

If you need some house rules to help the game, here are some of the ones we include in our play group.

1) Raven can only grab Superpowers cost 6 or less. This one is important.
2) Never play Blue Beetle. We just couldn't salvage him without needing a whole new Character effect.
3) Skitter requires only three different cards, not four. Before we had multiple games where she didn't trigger even one time.

Also, for HU we make Sciencell and Saint Walker cap at 5 VP. Otherwise they're just too stupid easy to grab for mass VP.

More will come with time as we keep playing, but house rules always help with this system, I highly encourage them.

andymo24
08-11-2016, 02:33 PM
Your rule for Black Lightning was x cannot equal 0? I was thinking "Each card with cost 1 or greater can only be taken from your discard pile once per turn this way."

Never even knew I was missing Skitter till now. We actually did play TT yesterday, Raven got Teen Titans GO! and it was game over.

Mac_Apple
08-12-2016, 11:13 AM
The thing is, tracking a card like that can quickly become confusing and convoluted when considering visible and hidden zones, as well as duplicate cards with the same name. And X cannot equal 0 is a rule that can overarchingly be applied to the Cerberus Engine, whereas your change would have to be specific card errata.

EDIT: Also your ruling would still allow the whole discard pile (cost less than the Weaknesses you have in your hand and discard pile) to be picked up at once.

Many games use an implied X cannot equal 0. It makes sense to use it here too.

SasukeSama21
08-12-2016, 01:17 PM
Many games use an implied X cannot equal 0. It makes sense to use it here too.

Very Smart, Totally Agree!!!!!

Matt_Hyra
08-12-2016, 03:00 PM
Alright, let's make an official addendum to Black Lightning (and only him) to say: X cannot equal 0.
When we tested him with Teen Titans, he never ended up with Weaknesses, so we did not see these broken combos.

gerrymul
08-12-2016, 03:12 PM
So the question is....has Crypto already done their entire print run for this promo, or will this get changed when this eventually goes up for sale on BGG Store?

Matt_Hyra
08-12-2016, 03:38 PM
So the question is....has Crypto already done their entire print run for this promo, or will this get changed when this eventually goes up for sale on BGG Store?

We just did a short print run for GenCon. We should be able to change it for future printings.

gerrymul
08-12-2016, 03:56 PM
:D

Mac_Apple
08-12-2016, 05:27 PM
Sweet, means Gen Con promos are now error editions! Sort of... :P

Thanks Matt.

shadowking01
08-12-2016, 07:39 PM
Can anyone tell me how they're incorporating these promos in how they organize their sets because I have Joker in Forever Evil, Skitter in Teen Titans, so where are you all putting Black Lightning and Vixen, I thought to put Vixen with the Arrow characters but have no idea where to put Black Lightning

GuruGuru214
08-13-2016, 04:26 AM
My group has all four promo cards grouped together at the bottom of the deck. We allow all cards in all sets (minus a few Crisis and Rivals cards that either are too OP or don't function in competitive play), so it's purely an aesthetic thing for us.

Also, we haven't had a chance to run Black Lightning yet, so we're going to stick with his original text for the time being, to see how it is to play him as originally intended. We'll have to see how that goes before we decide if that's a permanent house rule or not.

DimeDrl
08-13-2016, 10:06 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lightning

Looking at that, it seems like Black Lightning is most closely related to the Outsiders and the closest thing to that in the known sets right now would be Birds of Prey since they are Batman-related.

shadowking01
08-14-2016, 05:38 AM
I ended up putting Black Lightning in Heroes United and Vixen in Arrow, and I leave the option to use any card with any set but this makes most sense to me organization-wize.

BenJazz
08-14-2016, 02:40 PM
I am still betting on Crisis 4 being The Outsiders so I will see where Black Lightning goes after that one comes out. Vixen for me will most likely go with HU or Birds of Prey.

Arrojacast
08-31-2016, 09:14 PM
You could just make it so that discarding weaknesses put them on the bottom of your deck, that way he could use them for a benefit, but he couldn't just loop it forever. I guess what you did was a fine solution, and probably better, but I think mine would have offered more strategic options.

N-Finite
09-20-2016, 06:09 PM
Any idea as to when Vixen and Black Lightning promos will be available again?

DimeDrl
09-20-2016, 07:01 PM
I second N-Finite's question. shadowking01 having the promos already is causing problems. He won't stop taunting me with them. He's evil... pure evil.... forever evil.

Matt_Hyra
09-20-2016, 09:40 PM
The promos are still several months away from seeing the light of day again.

shadowking01
09-21-2016, 02:51 PM
Evil You Say DimeDrl, Mwahahahahahaha!

unclebill
01-23-2017, 03:17 PM
Seems to me that if you discard X number of cards, you only and must get a single card that has exactly X cost. The discarding no cards is not discarding any cards, so you don't trigger the effect and conversely if you do trigger the effect you can not take a starter/weakness card as they have cost zero and you must take a card with X cost which is not zero.

unLimitedEnds
02-22-2017, 02:29 PM
Any comment on when the promos will be released this year? Trying to get them all.

Matt_Hyra
02-22-2017, 11:08 PM
Any comment on when the promos will be released this year? Trying to get them all.

We will be using them for League Play before they get released, so "a while."
Ask your local store to inquire about a league with their distributor and get them early.

imimmortl
02-23-2017, 02:51 PM
We will be using them for League Play before they get released, so "a while."
Ask your local store to inquire about a league with their distributor and get them early.


Matt,
What is this "League Play" you speak of? I've been hoping to get something together like this as our local playgroup has lost some interest without any organized play. Has something been released describing the plan for "league play" for DB?

DekanWheeler
02-23-2017, 06:24 PM
We will be revealing more about organized play very soon to all the DC Deck-Building fans and your LGS very soon. Everything will be revealed before the end of March. The promo cards first available during GenCin 2016 will be part of this initiative.

CushionRide
06-10-2017, 09:40 PM
hi, im gonna breath a little light into this thread. ive been collecting DC Deckbuilder for ... well since I got exposed to it like 4 years ago I think. since then I have had loads of fun with it and my version of the game is ever changing. my issue especially with the current promo, is balance. these characters if played with certain cards have no diminishing returns. Black Lighting is by far the most broken character I have ever seen, sometimes we like to change things up and play 2 heros, well tonight my friend had the oporunity to play black lightning and shasam all at the same time, now he didn't, but if he had. he would have been able to buy the entire 300+ card main deck in one turn.

well here is what would happen.

first throughout most of the game I was dishing out the weaknesses. well that just fuels his resolve and gives him more things to play. lets say he has 8 weaknesses in his discard pile, and about 10 different other cards that cost 8 or less. he can spend 0, 8 times to get all the weeknesses into his hand then discard the 8 to get a card and do it over.... basicly to shorten the play as long as he has enough weeknesses in his discard pile he pulled everything else from his discard pile into his hand. I watched him play Impossible mode black atom 4 turns in a row, and snagged the top of my deck 4 times because of it. then after all that we discovered if you have a simple 2 cost fairy like bumblebee in play, you have an infinite power combo. so he literally bought the lineup the kickstack, that consisted of 57 kicks and the supervillan in one turn.

yea you guys at cryptazoic need to learn something called game balance. you design the game sets to be merged but when you do you break the game. so far in my game the most broken characters are as followed in this order. black lightning, bizzaro, golden glider. bizzaro gets broken for similar reasons as BL, except he can sculpt the weaknesses out for draw. and golden glider with timetravel around is just plain ridiculous. especially if your playing telepathy.

another game breaker was the card duplication. that card has become stupid without even comboing. I banned it.

another game breaker was shasam and clayface. my friend played shasam first, the card revealed was clayface. yea a 1 in 300 chance he got it but it happened. basicly it ended the game because he could not continue his play. this prompted me to swap normal clayface with rivals clayface. no more broken combo.

honestly I cant wait for the next two sets but im fearfull of them as well.. I find it very hard to get excited when I wonder what will get broken next.

ill find the appropriate area to post how my game works, I think you guys will like it. we call it brutality mode. it is very interesting. its a combination highlander AT on titan style. no wall though

Matt_Hyra
06-10-2017, 10:38 PM
FYI: Black Lightning has errata saying "X can't equal 0."

Merging sets has always been a great way to explore new interactions. We can't stifle innovation and new play experiences just because Characters X, Y, and Z from 3 years ago will end up OP. We trust that players who are into it enough to mix sets will see the OP stuff early and make tweaks to take care of it.

Indeed, Duplication is a card that was really only meant for Watchmen. We don't like to come out and say that, as some people like to throw in bombs and then add lots of targeted Attacks to smack back at players who get OP cards.

We try, and we do think about these things, but there are simply too many cards to prevent something from being out of whack when mixed with cards from years ago.

CushionRide
06-11-2017, 05:09 AM
you know I do get that, but the character black lightning is seriously over the top. you cant tell me that was playtested. every character should have some form of negative. even shasam has a negative, Bizzaro has a negative. VIXEN has a negative. BL has non, he actually thrives off negatives. as soon as he starts getting weaknesses he becomes op. in my game I had dished out 4 or 5 to my opponent right away, and all I did was feed him. BL can literally keep the weeknesses out of his deck at all times, as soon as he gets them, he can pull them to his hand, and just discard them for the next turn, if played right you will never see a weekness in your deck and they will never clog your deck down. bizzaro cant even do that. this is where im saying balance needs to be payed a little more attention too. in my game format i mostly gave up the idea of playing more than one character cause it got too busted to fast, but i do not like it when one character has such an overwealming advantage than any other character. there just isn't a disadvantage to him. the weakest he is, is if you get no weaknesses, or have no discard pile. then you just have nothing to play for a turn. after that he just gets stupider and stupider.

don't get me wrong i get that combos creep up. i used to play magic and force of will, even pokemon. godlike combos come up all the time. i mean clayface and shasam, that was a one in a million fluke. and it was hilarious. and with my format i had an answer to it, rivals clayface. yeay. fixed.

however duplication and Black lightning are cards that are just completely overpowered by them selves. no questions asked. its why i banned them from my game. duplication and shapeshift, say goodby to all your cards period lol that was fun. i got to watch 5 other players cry

speaking of the watchmen set, what is up with disintegration. does that destroy character cards???? i have not been able to wrap my head around that one

Matt_Hyra
06-11-2017, 09:10 AM
Black Lightning was tested and the players didn't seem to get many Weaknesses, so we didn't see it.

We don't test playing with 2 characters, so you should expect some over the top combos there.

Disintegration will remove a Loyal player from the game. It does nothing in a competitive game, so you might want to leave it out.

aoineko
06-11-2017, 03:04 PM
Why is Shazam! + Clayface broken? If you play Clayface off the top of the deck with Shazam! it is no longer there, so if you play Shazam again you play the next card.

CushionRide
06-11-2017, 06:14 PM
its because of the way shasam reads it says reveal and play the top card of the main deck, and then return it to the top of the main deck, because shasam is a complete sentence it overrides clayfaces immediate effect. the separation in shasam is done with a comma, if it was a separate sentence marked with a period then clayface would go for the next card. basicly its like this, you play shasam, reveal clayface, play it choose shasam and return it, resolve shasam again clayface is back. its the way the English is worded.

CushionRide
06-11-2017, 06:19 PM
what game edition did you use. ? cause the core edition has enough characters and villins to romp the weaknesses out. we just played tonight, and used just the original core set. sai used black lightning, I used golden glider, and my other friend used weather wizard, but we played the core set un-modified. I started collecting attack cards and dished out quite a few weaknesses, once sia got 3-4 weaknesses in his deck he was pulling almost everything he purchased, see the trick with BL is you don't sculpt. at all. my version is more intense than that. so I cannot allow the character in my game.

o and disintegration don't worry I don't use it, I was just wondering. so it ends a game for a player cool now I know , we thought it just eliminated the character you play so you could still play just without the advantage of character abilities.

Matt_Hyra
06-11-2017, 10:20 PM
its because of the way shasam reads it says reveal and play the top card of the main deck, and then return it to the top of the main deck, because shasam is a complete sentence it overrides clayfaces immediate effect. the separation in shasam is done with a comma, if it was a separate sentence marked with a period then clayface would go for the next card. basicly its like this, you play shasam, reveal clayface, play it choose shasam and return it, resolve shasam again clayface is back. its the way the English is worded.

"Reveal and play"
So you reveal Clayface and play it. Part of the resolution of Shazam! is to play (and therefore resolve) another card, "then return it to the top of the main deck."

So Clayface is no longer on top of the main deck when you play Shazam! again via Clayface.

CushionRide
06-12-2017, 04:37 PM
thank you I will take that as official, then I am happy to have that correction. sweet...... ooo I did miss something you posted or I misread it, did you say x cannot = zero??? for black lightning??? that's very interesting, cause most games allow you to choose x and I could have sworn the original post said you COULD use him to pull weaknesses

Atmoz
06-12-2017, 04:46 PM
He initially said it could back when lightning was first released because in testing black lightning never got many weaknesses so they never saw the loop. So he announced an errata for black lightning to where X cannot equal 0.

Allete
06-13-2017, 02:29 PM
Is black lightning gonna be released in league play with vixen?

Matt_Hyra
06-13-2017, 04:56 PM
Is black lightning gonna be released in league play with vixen?

Not in the same season, but probably in the future.

unLimitedEnds
06-29-2017, 12:20 AM
Wow! Can't believe it's almost been a year since these came out. To reiterate:

Vixen: league play 2017
Black Lightning: league play
Gypsy: Gen Con?

When are these going to be available to buy?

Matt_Hyra
06-29-2017, 09:23 AM
Wow! Can't believe it's almost been a year since these came out. To reiterate:

Vixen: league play 2017
Black Lightning: league play
Gypsy: Gen Con?

When are these going to be available to buy?

Typically 6 months after they were released for the League or Event.

Gypsy was first given out at Origins. Only the winner of each tournament, so 6 total.
24 will be given out at GenCon. The winner of each table will get one.

CushionRide
07-05-2017, 06:57 AM
soooo not to beat a dead horse lol, but we found another way to bust Black Lighting, use 1 cost cards, if you had 2 or more 1 cost cards in your deck you could discard a one cost to pull a one cost and infinitely chain that way too. I hate to say it, the only way to correct Black Lighting and to make him fair completely is to make his ability a one use per turn ability. in all honesty, I don't think any character should be allowed to use their ability more than once. it make them overpowered to characters that can only use their ability once. consider this, black lighting can repeat discard to pull cards from the discard pile that equal what he discarded, now compare him to brainiac 5 where you have to discard 2 cards period, and only once during your turn, and you only get a time travel card or a card with cost 5, that is very specific, similar abilities, but BL has no restrictions. shasam has no limit as long as you have power you can pull any number of cards for just a cost of 4, lets say I had generated 28 power and played parallax, so I have 56 total power, I just grabbed 14 cards off the top of the deck. repeat use characters can be totally busted compared to the characters that only get their abilities one time. its just something to think about

PS with my game I carefully plan what goes into my game, I look at every card, and try to keep it balanced. weve been playing my version for about 2 years now and its an addiction we cant stave off, soooooooo I cant wait for my store to get the new sets ^_^

LexLuthorJr
07-05-2017, 07:52 AM
soooo not to beat a dead horse lol, but we found another way to bust Black Lighting, use 1 cost cards, if you had 2 or more 1 cost cards in your deck you could discard a one cost to pull a one cost and infinitely chain that way too.

And do what, exactly? Sure, you could discard a 1-cost card to get a 1-cost card infinitely, but to what end?

CushionRide
07-05-2017, 08:27 AM
it involves combos, crossover 5 has a card called lightning strike, it gives you +1 power for each card you discard or have discarded this turn. and it allows you draw. yes most 1 costs are pretty worthless by themselves but they could be used mischievously with BL

CushionRide
07-05-2017, 08:41 AM
OMG I didn't see that What does Gypsy do. I wanna see it, (my inner 6 year old is out right now)

LexLuthorJr
07-05-2017, 09:47 AM
it involves combos, crossover 5 has a card called lightning strike, it gives you +1 power for each card you discard or have discarded this turn. and it allows you draw. yes most 1 costs are pretty worthless by themselves but they could be used mischievously with BL

I just chalk that up to a good combo for Black Lightning. The main issue with him was being able to get back Weaknesses for free. Those combos were much more consistent. Again, it's a great combo, but takes a lot more set-up.

Personally, rather than say X can't equal zero, the errata should have been "Remove X cards from the game: Put a non-Starter card with cost X from your discard pile into your hand. At the end of your turn, put all cards removed this way into your discard pile." That would have eliminated any infinite combos.

Atmoz
07-05-2017, 12:22 PM
it involves combos, crossover 5 has a card called lightning strike, it gives you +1 power for each card you discard or have discarded this turn. and it allows you draw. yes most 1 costs are pretty worthless by themselves but they could be used mischievously with BL

That requires a one of card out of 600+ cards that exist to get, plus getting multiple 1 costs. At that point I just see it as if you get it, you get it. I only see it as a problem that should be fixed if it can happen every game fairly consistently like with the weaknesses pre-errata.

CushionRide
07-06-2017, 08:24 AM
I was using that as an example, how many other cards play off discarding, im not sure. but it could be a future issue. my point is that there is no diminishing return with him unless you go for something bigger. I honestly think the one time use would be a better fix than saying X cannot = 0

also DC has no RFG zone unless your counting the destroyed pile

Mac_Apple
07-06-2017, 03:57 PM
That actually is problematic, because not just Lightning Strike does it. Per Degaton does as well.

GuruGuru214
07-06-2017, 04:52 PM
also DC has no RFG zone unless your counting the destroyed pile

Not true. Miss Martian essentially removes your hand from the game until the end of your turn, Disintegration is removed from the game if you use it, and all Super-Villains defeated in Crisis Mode are removed from the game.

CushionRide
07-07-2017, 06:08 AM
miss martian does not RFG cards it specifically says put your hand aside, so your hand is in limbo until your turn is over, Disintegration is specifically for the watchman set so that isn't an issue in a normal game, and in Crisis all villians you buy are destroyed not RFG, so if you have items like the white and black ring, or trench coat, or new York or anything else that fishes in the destroyed pile that's where they go. there is no RFG zoned in DC Deck builder except for superboy prime, who specifically says he can swap your super hero with one from outside the game. that is RFG, outside the game, destroyed pile is still in the game.

GuruGuru214
07-07-2017, 06:36 AM
Purchased Villains get destroyed in Crisis. Super-Villains get removed from the game entirely. Like, you can't Black Lantern Ring back Vandal Savage in a Crisis game. Also, there's Crisis cards that remove cards from the game. In Crisis 2, when Rise of the Dead is the active Crisis, any card that is destroyed gets removed from the game. In Crisis 3, Lost in Time removes all cards with cost 1 or greater in players' discard piles from the game until it's beaten.

And whether or not Disintegration is part of the Watchmen set is irrelevant. Crossover 4 can be used without playing the game in Watchmen Mode, and it's still a DC Comics Deck-Building Game card with the text "remove this card from the game". And in a more normal Crossover Pack, the top card of the Super Hero stack in The Rogues, The Flash, is removed from the game when he's defeated.

Besides that, there's cards in the upcoming Multiverse Crossover with that text. The Multiverse cards function on bringing in cards from outside the game, while Parallax explicitly has a secondary ability that is activated if you choose to remove it from the game when you play it.

There doesn't need to be a designated "removed from game zone". Plenty of cards reference it. And in any case, it's irrelevant. Even if temporarily removing cards from the game was a problem, the Black Lightning errata text suggested by LexLuthorJr would still be achievable by using the same wording on Miss Martian. "Set aside X cards: Put a non-Starter card with cost X from your discard pile into your hand. At the end of your turn, put all cards set aside this way into your discard pile." Not that I'm really in favor of making such a change (personally, I was fine with it when he could use Weaknesses), I'm just saying there's no reason it's not possible.

CushionRide
07-07-2017, 06:54 AM
you are talking about specific game formats that don't exist in the normal game. I AM TALKING ABOUT THE NORMAL GAME MECHANIC. Crisis is not the NORMAL game format, ROGUES is also not a normal game format, neither is Watchmen. Rogues runs on the forever evil format, its different. also concerning disintegration, Matt Hydra in this thread said it was a watchman only card anyways. so it doesn't count as relevant to my argument. you also cannot count the up coming sets yet cause (drumroll) THEY ARE NOT OUT YET. I haven't seen them and don't know what is in the sets yet, how do you know?

I will admit because I don't play crisis. I did miss the fact that super villains get RFG'd. we tried crisis, no offense to the devs but it sucked, it took way to long to even beat a super. in some cases it completely locked our game down. I don't even know why they continue with those modes, the addon cards were cool.

also you are totally wrong about miss martian. when you play miss martian you have to resolve her effect first. her effect says to set aside your hand. so even if BL's text was changed to what your talking about. you cannot set aside for miss martian and count that for BL unless BL specifically says so. you could however do it with the new hand drawn from M Martian. also in the end you would be discarding double the cards that way. o wait we wont because Miss martian will override the BL dicard cause she says to put them back in your hand at the end of the turn. so no matter how you do it the Martian set aside is back in your hand. also the way you guys worded your change on BL stated discard all cards set aside this way, "this way" refers to the BL effect not miss martians. soo.... yea

but we are arguing about a hypothetical change that doesn't exist and in my opinion is really stupid. it is just easier to make his ability a one time use, that way its not busted, and then it is on par with other characters that have only one time uses. and its not effected by other cards in the game