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View Full Version : 5 Years and Hopes for Improvements



TheAllyKat
11-11-2017, 06:36 PM
Hello Cryptozoic Games!

Since DC Deckbuilding is coming up on it's 5th year mark. I would like to voice a few concerns with this product line-up that do not seem to be on the mind for Cryptozoic Games or at very least are not being voiced by your company.

COMPREHENSIVE RULEBOOK
With Confrontations about to be released, there are now 5 base sets, 8 expansions, and a handful of promotional cards. There is now a high demand of players for a PDF Comprehensive Rulebook for the game that compiles all the rules into a single document.

PROMOTIONAL CARDS
One of the main concerns that I have with this game is that promotional cards are not widely available. This creates a disabalance of fairness for the fanbase of the game. I absolutely understand the demand of the population for promotional cards however most games suffer as a result of releasing new cards as promotional material. Even Fantasy Flight Games for their LCG series has shifted (like many) to limiting their promotional cards to Alternate Art cards to ensure none of their player base is prevented from playing the whole experience.

Please shift to Alternate Art promos! [I was not in the United States for the summer Organized Play event and none of the local game shops had access to the kit.]

ORGANIZED PLAY
There no current BALANCED system for regular, ongoing competitve play for the game. There a LOT of smaller groups out there trying to establish the best way to competitve-ize the game. I find pieces of them interesting but as a whole incomplete. At a local shop that tried running events they used a variation that was real close to the Multiverse Box's Champions mechanic (this was in 2015.)

I would love to speak my mind about options for competitive play!

This all said: there really needs to be a ruleset for organized play that any shop can easily impliment and host. This system does need to allow for use of multiple base sets and expansions with the flexibility of using less or more of the game.

OVERSIZED CARDS
Please switch over to the standard card size of "Tarot"! If Cryptozoic is not going to make protective sleeves for the SUPER HERO, SUPER VILLAIN, or MULTIVERSE LOCATION cards, the least that you can do is to produce the card in a size that protective sleeves. One of the hallmarks of a players who participate in organized play, is protective sleeves for their cards!

Please condense the SUPER HERO (Oversized) card type and SUPER VILLAIN (Oversized) card types to a single Oversized card type. This would allow the rules to easily be written to fully support the fan base who purchases all the products in the DC Deckbuilding line. This would bridge the gap in the rules between the Base Set & the Forever Evil set.

The most common used card type names I have seen for these oversized cards is: "PERSONA" & "CHARACTER".

It's in your best interests to make all the lines as compatible as possible. You want a consumer to walk into a shop with one of the Base Sets to easily pick up ANY of the other products and add it to their collection.

SUPER HERO & SUPER VILLAIN
Similarly, change the card type name of the standard size SUPER HERO and SUPER VILLAIN cards to something like "RIVAL" or "NEMESIS"! Once again, there is no reason why the card type name cannot be Good Guy/Bad Guy neutral. I imagine like myself most players want to easily be able to teach a friend how to play either Forever Evil or Teen Titans without having to use terminology that does not translate between the products. (It also will help with the aspect of organized play!!)

REBOOT THE BASE SET
I would love to see a "YEAR 5" release of the Base Set. I would love to see all the earlier promo cards (ie. Oversized Martian Manhunter, Felix Faust, etc.) included in this product. This would allow the game to consider a cleaner visual to the cards asethics. This would allow ALL my above suggestions come into play. It would also show how strong the game is going for people who have never played the game.

EXPAND THE NUMBER OF EVENTS & MULTIVERSE LOCATIONS
We have found there is NOT enough Event cards nor Multiverse Location cards included in the Multiverse Box to provide sufficient replay for the mechanic.

SET SUGGESTIONS BASED UPON COMIC STORY ARCS(PERSONAL WISHLIST)

DC Universe Online Legends (the comic series to compliment the video game)
Injustice: Gods Among Us (comic series to compliment the video game series)
Kingdom Come
Earth 2 (from the New 52 run)
Emperor Joker (it is a ridiculous story arch)
DC Comics / Looney Tunes multiple crossover comics (from 2017)
Young Justice (especially since the animated series is finally getting season 3 in 2018!)

Matt_Hyra
11-11-2017, 10:08 PM
Thank you!
Much to process here.

Only thing I can mention at the moment is that the last wave of promo cards will make their way to the BGG store.
We like to encourage players to play in tournies and leagues to get them early, but make them available later on to the general public.

TheAllyKat
11-12-2017, 11:29 AM
Only thing I can mention at the moment is that the last wave of promo cards will make their way to the BGG store.

I appreciate this. I really WANTED to play the Organized Play event. I was curious about how it differed from the variation we use for events (especially since the variant since 2015 has a lot of the Multiverse Box elements.)


Thank you!
Much to process here.
Yes, I am aware of this!

Bladecom
11-12-2017, 07:50 PM
If it means anything, I've been working on transcribing a all encompassing rule book for the Cryptozoic Cerberus games, mostly for a personal project, that I can publish here once it's done..

LexLuthorJr
11-13-2017, 10:40 AM
COMPREHENSIVE RULEBOOK

Agreed. Even just a digital version would be appreciated.


PROMOTIONAL CARDS

Agree and disagree. Alternate Art promos are not very useful in a DBG. They would be released strictly for collectible value, which for a non-CCG company is a waste of money. However, I do agree that promo releases for new cards should be more public. I would recommend releasing promos at events and conventions, but then putting them in the web store several months later.


ORGANIZED PLAY

I don't participate in any organized play other than conventions, so I have no opinion.


OVERSIZED CARDS

Disagree. Sleeves do exist for the larger cards. Granted, they may not always be at you local brick and mortar, but they are available online. Personally, I think the larger size works on an aesthetic level. Besides, I can tell you from experience: If the Super Hero was the same size as the standard cards, it would get shuffled into a deck all the time.


SUPER HERO & SUPER VILLAIN

While you're right and that would have been convenient, it's a bit late to make that change. Besides, I think most seasoned players understand what the rules mean after they've played for a while.


REBOOT THE BASE SET

Agreed, insofar that a reboot of the base set would allow the core DC characters to have some diversity. I would enjoy seeing a re-imagined Justice League.


EXPAND THE NUMBER OF EVENTS & MULTIVERSE LOCATIONS

Agreed. A crossover-like pack would rectify this.

TheAllyKat
11-13-2017, 07:34 PM
OVERSIZED CARDS

Disagree. Sleeves do exist for the larger cards. Granted, they may not always be at you local brick and mortar, but they are available online. Personally, I think the larger size works on an aesthetic level. Besides, I can tell you from experience: If the Super Hero was the same size as the standard cards, it would get shuffled into a deck all the time.

I would like to clarify the confusion that was perceived. I am not recommending using Standard Game size cards. I am recommending using a STANDARD size for the Oversized cards. I still want the cards to be oversized for the reason that you stated. I recommended using the "Tarot" size since the sizes are very similar. (The size Cryptozic Games Oversized Cards was a size that is not standardized thus you cannot find sleeves for them.)

Cryptozic Games Oversize Cards: 3" x 4" (77mm x 102mm)
Standard Tarot Sized Cards: 2.75" x 4.72" (70mm x 120mm)

A slight change to the card sizing and suddenly there countless options for sleeves without sacrificing the concept of an oversized card.

TheAllyKat
11-13-2017, 07:39 PM
SUPER HERO & SUPER VILLAIN

While you're right and that would have been convenient, it's a bit late to make that change. Besides, I think most seasoned players understand what the rules mean after they've played for a while.

It is never too late for a minor change. At some point, all games undergo an overhaul for the benefit of visual aesthetics or revision of rules. The game benefits the greatest from not requiring it's player-base to be seasoned for players to feel compelled to buy more into the game.

DimeDrl
11-14-2017, 12:03 AM
OVERSIZED CARDS
Please switch over to the standard card size of "Tarot"! If Cryptozoic is not going to make protective sleeves for the SUPER HERO, SUPER VILLAIN, or MULTIVERSE LOCATION cards, the least that you can do is to produce the card in a size that protective sleeves. One of the hallmarks of a players who participate in organized play, is protective sleeves for their cards!

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1284565/sleeves

Ultra Pro Semi Rigid 1/2" Lip Tall Sleeves 200ct

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B000ETP9RG/

Rigid and high quality. I've been using them since vanilla base set released back in 2012. They're better than most sleeves you'd buy since they won't bend or break easy. And the "Ultra Pro" tab can be cut off with an xacto blade or a box cutter.

4654

TheAllyKat
11-14-2017, 12:41 AM
4654

This is a huge tab - I would not call that an ideal fit. (I also do not know a box cutter.) Good on you for finding yourself a solution but is no where near ideal for most (including myself.)

Allete
11-14-2017, 09:32 AM
Comprehensive Rulebook: I think its a good idea. For myself and the regulars I play with, we have those memorized with the exemption of tricky situations, ex: using Jonn Jonnz on Johnny Quick on the super villain stack to draw.

Promotional Cards: I think the issue isnt just availability, its the fact that all the available ones are being bought in bulk for cheap on boardgamegeek, then resold on ebay for a ridiculous amount.

Organized Play: Its hard to find a balanced system, cause theres always gonna be changes with new sets coming out. I guess it would have to be an official rotation of some sort.

Oversized Cards: I dont know about the sleeves, but the name thing could be nice.

Super Hero and Super Villain: The problem with this is it would create 2 brand new types, giving some cards like star sapphire ring an advantage.

Reboot the Base Set: I would definitely be for this

Expand number of events & multiverse locations: I would like this since some multiverse locations that have you play 3 cards versus 2 seem more difficult to pull off. I would also like different events as well. Blackest Night seems to happen and just lock the event stack permanently.

shadowking01
11-14-2017, 09:49 AM
This is a huge tab - I would not call that an ideal fit. (I also do not know a box cutter.) Good on you for finding yourself a solution but is no where near ideal for most (including myself.)

I use the same sleeves and it takes just a few minutes for me to cut for each new set and you can find and a box cutter at walmart easily and they keep the cards well protected more than traditional sleeves would

DimeDrl
11-14-2017, 07:00 PM
This is a huge tab - I would not call that an ideal fit. (I also do not know a box cutter.) Good on you for finding yourself a solution but is no where near ideal for most (including myself.)

Been working pretty fine for most since I posted it over at BGG back in 2014. :P And even regular scissors can cut that tab.

Mr_Bogard
11-15-2017, 09:27 PM
1. The rule book I agree on.
2. Promocards should be more accessible.
3. Haven't tried organized play so I don't have much of an option on this.
4. There are sleeves that fit the oversized cards, not perfect but they're good enough IMO.
5. It's not that confusing TBH.
6. Not nessesary at all. I'm more interested in new things rather than repackaging old stuff.
7. Yes more expansions the better.
8. All cool the more the merrier. Though not too much Batman related stuff.

TheAllyKat
11-15-2017, 11:34 PM
8. All cool the more the merrier. Though not too much Batman related stuff.

Hence my suggestions! (The Emperor Joker comic storyarch is a Superman storyarch for those who are unfamiliar with it.)


Promotional Cards: I think the issue isnt just availability, its the fact that all the available ones are being bought in bulk for cheap on boardgamegeek, then resold on ebay for a ridiculous amount.

While I was unaware, there was suspicion of this occuring. I would not doubt it for a split second if Cryptozic is under stocking promo supply. I have never seen any cards other than Faust listed on that website.

DimeDrl
11-19-2017, 04:09 PM
I'm still in favor of a promo finseal pack. Just bundle all the promos in together and sell the pack for $6 - $8.

Several other games have taken this approach and it has worked well.

4655
4656

After five years of DC DBG, there should be enough cards to constitute a profitable product. Maybe after the Black Lightning Tourney, a promo card finseal pack could be added to the late 2018 release period.