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CushionRide
03-07-2018, 10:59 PM
so this is probably a stupid question but this came up tonight in our DC game..... (I have a lot of players that split hairs on card wording...)

ok this is an interesting conversation that just came up today. now ive seen the ruling that OR on a supervillan means you get to pick for example, if a super says to destroy a card in your hand or discard pile, you get to pick either hand or discard pile then resolve it. so the debate came up with this, since OR means one or the other. does it mean the same thing when it refers to this...."discard a card cost 3 or Less..." can you pick 3, or a card that cost less, so lets say you picked 3 and you didn't have a 3 cost. I know this is really splitting hairs, but you have to understand the jack@$$es I game with.

Tschudy
03-08-2018, 04:18 AM
In this case, you're not being given a choice. A more nitpicky way to read it is "Discard a card which costs between 0 and 3, including 0 and 3."

Matt_Hyra
03-08-2018, 01:15 PM
And also, let's say an Attack reads "Destroy a Hero in your hand or discard pile."
This is shorthand for: "Look in your hand. Look in your discard pile. Destroy a Hero in one of those zones."

Example: You have a Hero in your hand, but not your discard pile.
You cannot "choose" discard pile and save the Hero in hand.

CushionRide
03-08-2018, 04:41 PM
ok I could have sworn you ruled it the other way around on the rule clarification page..........

well that makes my game that much more terrible. of coarse my friend who knows the English language better than most lawyers will have a major argument about that, but ill let him know that weve been playing it wrong for the last couple years lol

the problem he and my other friend is having with that is that the word in the English language, OR, entitles a choice. in most card games you cannot use a shorthand for anything or it will be exploited. that is why there are so many cards in magic the gathering that have lengthy explanations on cards, because in the mid 90's they realized how badly a card can be exploited if not explained properly.

my friend just got back to me on this comment, and said if the word "OR" is used it should have the word "either" or "must" for example. "destroy a hero in either your hand or discard pile." OR. "you must destroy a card in your hand or discard pile" without those 2 words placed in the sentence the cards do no say what you want them to say.

Webster's dictionary definition of OR
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/or

Matt_Hyra
03-08-2018, 11:51 PM
Must doesn't add anything.
"Give me $20 or I shoot you."
"You must give me $20 or I'll shoot you."

"Draw a card."
"You must draw a card."
No one ever fails to draw a card when they read the shorter version.

"Destroy a Hero in your hand or discard pile."
If we wanted you to be able to dodge the attack we would have written it thusly:

Choose your hand or your discard pile. If there are one or more Heroes in that zone, destroy one of them.

I would rather have some people play it wrong, and have fun not knowing they are playing it "wrong," than to add some extra helper words to the cards.

gerrymul
03-09-2018, 12:54 PM
If we wanted you to be able to dodge the attack we would have written it thusly:

Choose your hand or your discard pile. If there are one or more Heroes in that zone, destroy one of them.

Nice use of the word 'thusly!'

SpatzAI
03-11-2018, 02:32 PM
And also, let's say an Attack reads "Destroy a Hero in your hand or discard pile."
This is shorthand for: "Look in your hand. Look in your discard pile. Destroy a Hero in one of those zones."

Example: You have a Hero in your hand, but not your discard pile.
You cannot "choose" discard pile and save the Hero in hand.

I believe it was once said if the attack was "destroy a hero and a villain in your hand or discard pile", in your hand you had both a hero and a villain, but your discard pile just a villain, you could still choose the discard pile. In other words as long as you were able to get hit in either location, you could choose either, even if you would get smacked harder in one than the other. Am I remembering that right?

Matt_Hyra
03-11-2018, 07:26 PM
Am I remembering that right?

I don't think so. If it ever was ruled that way, that is not how we want it anymore. You should not be dodging attacks by faking out the card text.

DimeDrl
03-11-2018, 08:26 PM
I believe it was once said if the attack was "destroy a hero and a villain in your hand or discard pile", in your hand you had both a hero and a villain, but your discard pile just a villain, you could still choose the discard pile. In other words as long as you were able to get hit in either location, you could choose either, even if you would get smacked harder in one than the other. Am I remembering that right?

I'm pretty sure inthat situation the card says you HAVE To destroy a Villain AND a Hero, and that you can choose from either the hand or discard pile as needed. So, in the case of one of each in the hand and one villain the discard pile, you MUST destroy the hero in the your hand, but you can choose which villain to destroy.

If you have one hero in hand and one villain in the discard pile, both are gone to fulfill the card requirements.

If you have a hero and villain in hand and also have a hero and villain in the discard pile, you can destroy both in hand, both in the discard pile, or one from each location.

The entire point of the "or" is to make sure that you lose one of each card from EITHER location.

Carthain
03-14-2018, 12:39 PM
<... stuff about the word 'or' ...>

Okay so when something asks you to choose, then yes 'or' lets you pick either. (e.g.: "Do you want Milk or Orange Juice?")

But take the phrase "My keys are in my jacket or on the table". If I tell you that, do you really think you get to choose where my keys are? So there's certainly more than just one way for 'or' to be used.

Also there's nothing in that m-w definition of 'or' that says you always get to choose. So I wouldn't keep sticking to the claim that your friend "knows the English language better than most lawyers."

CushionRide
03-17-2018, 03:50 PM
your example is bad. the phrase "My keys are in my jacket or on the table" is not a statement giving you an option. that is stating 2 different locations your keys might be in. the statements in the cards ARE giving options. but hey, you know what. I already had a private discussion about this with Matt. and were good. we are doing it the way the game is intended. and holy cow it just made my setup more brutal. and fun. im good with that. I do say this, in the next core set I would suggest in the rule book place a clause there about the FA attacks stating they have to hit something and that or does not just give a choice but has to do its damage from either target if possible.

and yes you may be right about the context of the definition I posted, however in the case of the cards my argument is valid.

o and I may have exaggerated about the lawyer statement, I do that from time to time. but I do find it hilarious that my Hmong friend knows his second language better than most of his friends know their first. seriously. He's had cards called for context at major tournaments at places like gen-con for magic, L5R, Warlord, Force of will and now he plays star wars destiny. his player credentials speaks for itself. so ill still take his advise over anyone else.

Matt_Hyra
03-17-2018, 04:39 PM
I'll close this now so we can move on to other things.