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Gwon
04-05-2011, 04:18 PM
Cryptozoic is now taking applications for sponsorship to 2011 North American Continental Championship and DMF Las Vegas. We are looking for judges and Champions that have tournament and administrative experience. NACC/DMF Las Vegas will be held 16 June through 19 June, 2011 in Las Vegas, NV.

Paris Las Vegas Hotel & Casino
3655 Las Vegas Blvd So.
Las Vegas, Nevada 89109

NACC Information Page (http://www.wowtcg.com/tournaments/continental-championships/north-american-continental-championship)
DMF Las Vegas Information Page (http://www.wowtcg.com/tournaments/darkmoon-faire/darkmoon-faire-las-vegas-2011)

The sponsorship application window begins on 6 April, and will close on Wednesday 27 April 2011.

If you would like to apply for sponsorship, you must email volunteers@cryptozoic.com. Please put “2011 NACC Sponsorship” in the subject line.

Here is some useful information:
• Full or partial sponsorships will be provided a shared hotel room from 15 June and leaving on 20 June 2011. You may apply to be provided a flight or other travel arrangements. Those who do not require sponsorship for their travel are more likely to be accepted. • You will be provided lunch _or_ a small stipend. No other costs will be covered.
• Judges are expected to wear nice, clean black slacks with black shoes. Additionally, you will be issued two Cryptozoic judge shirts if you have not already received one (from working a previous event). If you fail to meet the dress code, you will be asked to remedy the situation and if you cannot, you will not be asked to attend other shows on behalf of Cryptozoic. Non-judge staff will be expected to wear nice, clean blue jeans (with no holes, not tattered, no rips) and a Cryptozoic Event Staff shirt. If you have not received one yet, you will be given two.

Here are the requirements:

• Must have extensive experience conducting effective and efficient administrative tasks (Scorekeeping, Registration, League staff). OR Must have judge experience.
• Must be 18 years of age or older.
• Willing to work the entire event.
• Able to judge long hours. Days will be 8-10 hours.
• Able to lift heavy objects and perform other physically demanding jobs relating to tournament setup.
• Must be friendly and have a positive attitude.
• Willing and able to assist the event staff as required with additional duties, which may include registration, table clothes, floor maintenance, radio check-in/out, breaking down of event materials, packing pallets at the end of the event, etc…
• Must be able to respond to emails within 48 hours with regards to travel arrangements.

Here is what we need in your email:

Please send your sponsorship request to volunteers@cryptozoic.com, include “NACC Sponsorship” in the subject line.
• Your name.
• Your CZE ID (if you have one).
• Level of sponsorship you require; Full, Partial (flight/travel or room) or volunteer. Please remember that you are more likely to be accepted if you are able to cover your travel and lodging.
• Would you prefer to work administration or judge?
• The day you are able to depart to the event.
• Your email address.
• Your shirt size and if you have not received one yet.
• Your date of birth.
• Your complete mailing address and phone number.
• List of events you have worked for Cryptozoic.
• Airport you would fly out of if flight sponsorship is needed.
• Emergency contact information and drug allergies.
• Do you have the necessary Passports?
• Any special requirements you have.
• Your CZEV# (if you are a Champion)
• Remember to include the name of event that you are requesting sponsorship for in the subject line.

What is expected?

• You will bring three days’ worth of appropriate attire.
• You will either conduct administrative duties or judge (depending on staffing requirements and sponsorship requests) Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. This will require long days with almost no breaks.
• You will prepare for the event thoroughly. If you are judging, you can start by reviewing all available rules, procedures and policies.

What is NOT paid for (partial list of common assumptions)?

• Food (Each person will receive either lunch or one small stipend each day).
• Taxi fares, bus fares, parking, etc.
• Additional room costs (room service, movies, laundry, etc).
• Ticket change fees (if you change your ticket, you pay all related fees).

Hotel Info:

• If you receive hotel sponsorship, you will be sharing a hotel room with at least one other person working the event.
• Spouses, friends, volunteers, players, significant others are not permitted.
• Your hotel will be paid for starting the day before the event and last until the day after the event. If you wish to stay longer or arrive earlier, you must arrange for this yourself.

Judge Testing:

• There will be Artisan and Expert level testing at this event.

Important Notes:

• This is not like a vacation, this is like work. It can be very rewarding and valuable, but it is hard work.
• If you are not chosen, don't take it personally. There are a limited number of sponsorships available. Again, if you would like to increase your chances of being accepted, covering your own flight and hotel will go a long way.

NACC SPECIFIC –
If you are only able to attend for Friday, Saturday, Sunday, please put that in your application. We are taking a small amount of judges/volunteers that are only able to work Fri, Sat, Sun. These staff will receive less gifts overall.
There will be a Judge Seminar on Thursday morning prior to staff needing to report to the event area. Classes will be held that will help those be a better judge. Some of the topics that will be covered are: Floor Judging, Deck Check Team, Scorekeeping, Registration/League, Head Judging/Higher Levels (this is only open to Level 2 and higher judges). These classes will be open to the public; I highly encourage everyone that is going to work the events that weekend to attend.

Please send your sponsorship request to volunteers@cryptozoic.com. The deadline to apply is Wednesday 27 April 2011 .

Judge/Volunteers who work the entire event will receive the following gifts:
4 displays of product from a recent set
4 Foil Undercity
4 Foil Magni the Mountain King
4 Foil Ysera the Dreamer
4 Foil Squall Totem
2 Rare Loot card from a recent set
2 Uncommon Loot card from a recent set
3 Common Loot cards from a recent set
2 Continental Champ Participation Promos
2 Continental Champ Day 2 Promos
2 DMF Top 64 promo
2 DMF Participation promo
1 DMF Playmat
1 DMF Deckbox
1 Continental Champs Playmat
1 Continental Champs Deckbox
8 League Prize Sleeves
4 Archives Packs
3 AoICC Treasure Pack

Gwon
04-05-2011, 04:18 PM
Please see the NACC Specific notes

Also - if anyone has a question, please post it here

mozu
04-05-2011, 05:49 PM
what's a nubian?

Aaric
04-05-2011, 07:18 PM
what's a nubian?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nubian

Fusion
04-05-2011, 08:56 PM
What passport documents are you referring to

DanCapt
04-05-2011, 09:04 PM
Im thinking thats for people coming from Canada and from the South of us (Mexico and down)

Draconstein
04-07-2011, 12:38 PM
Do black boots count towards the black shoes?

skey23
04-07-2011, 12:46 PM
If you think wearing black boots for 10+ hours a day for 4 days straight is going to be comfortable, then go for it....;)

Morp
04-07-2011, 01:09 PM
This judge comp is some of the best I have ever seen. Really wish I could be there.

Plodolo
04-07-2011, 08:58 PM
4 foiled Yseras?!?!?!

Aaric
04-07-2011, 11:38 PM
I've already submitted my application, but could we possibly get some more details on the classes at the judge seminar? I'm very interested in the head judge/higher level one.

Littlejon24
04-14-2011, 10:18 AM
sent in my app :D

i am also interested in knowing a schedule for the classes that will be held.

are there teaching positions open?

gentlegiant303
04-14-2011, 08:30 PM
I sent in my App. I am also interested in the seminars as well. How will they be organized? Who are the people who are presenting them?

Gwon
04-20-2011, 05:57 PM
Right now other avenues are being explored for the presentations. We are looking at video options so that everyone can see them and have them out before NACC. Details should come soon.

Also, there are 4 copies because it's a 4 day event and we are being more aggressive about rotating judge promos so they have more value.

Aaric
04-21-2011, 12:37 AM
Right now other avenues are being explored for the presentations. We are looking at video options so that everyone can see them and have them out before NACC. Details should come soon.

Also, there are 4 copies because it's a 4 day event and we are being more aggressive about rotating judge promos so they have more value.
Shoot, I was hoping it would be more interactive than just watching a video. What if we have questions?

Stupnick
04-21-2011, 07:26 AM
I'm assuming it will be more interactive. They will more than likely have a video so everyone get's the same presentation, then a person in the room that will be there to answer questions and go over what the video was about to hammer in the points.

Patrigan
04-21-2011, 07:57 AM
In Europe we won't have this, but all aspiring judges are encouraged to join the EUCC judges in their evening fun. Our evenings always are judge seminars.

demonfae
04-24-2011, 11:58 AM
In Europe we won't have this, but all aspiring judges are encouraged to join the EUCC judges in their evening fun. Our evenings always are judge seminars.

Don't lie!

Tommi
04-24-2011, 11:42 PM
Don't lie!

You never joined our sessions in Paris;)...

Victor
04-25-2011, 08:37 PM
I was in Paris and did not hear any word of this! Was there a memo i missed or what?

Patrigan
04-26-2011, 05:26 AM
I was in Paris and did not hear any word of this! Was there a memo i missed or what?

You were invited! But you went to bed early :( Might be because we don't actually advertise our evenings as "judge seminars" though.

But to your defense, you were a walking judge seminar. I think most of us learned quite a bit from you.

Vulosus
04-26-2011, 09:53 PM
Hmmmm...will the NACC seminars include beer like the World Cup ones? :)

Xistortion
04-30-2011, 08:32 PM
mmm beer! <3 and I get learn more about nerd cards? sign me up!

Stupnick
05-01-2011, 05:44 AM
When will decisions regarding this be made so people can plan accordingly?

DanCapt
05-01-2011, 09:03 PM
Hopefully within the next week. I'd like to know whether I need to start looking for flights...

Blackbladeshade
05-02-2011, 05:15 PM
I agree... I already have the Hotel room booked and ready.. just need to know if i have to get my flight in order or if im going to drive down with friends

Aaric
05-02-2011, 05:20 PM
I know one person who got their approval, but he didn't apply for any sponsorship. For the people that did apply for sponsorships (like myself), it will probably take a little longer to hear back, as they usually set up the roommates/flights first.

EDIT: I just realized I sent my app in about 1am April 6th, I hope it didn't get lost under the mountain of others ><.

gentlegiant303
05-02-2011, 06:51 PM
I would like to throw my hat in with everyone wanting to know. I would like to be able to figure out my travel plans. Mike, if you could even let us know when you will know that would be great. Thanks
Ben

Aaric
05-05-2011, 03:49 PM
Any chance we'll know within a couple weeks about our applications? I have to book pretty far in advance with my airmiles.

Argynt
05-05-2011, 04:10 PM
Any chance we'll know within a couple weeks about our applications? I have to book pretty far in advance with my airmiles.

I took a chance on it, and already booked mine. Hopefully I get accepted.

Djww19
05-05-2011, 04:31 PM
I'm scared to check flight prices as it is. Hopefully we'll know something before too long.

Blackbladeshade
05-06-2011, 10:28 AM
I got an email last night.... 2 in fact so the others should be out very very soon I would think

Stupnick
05-06-2011, 10:29 AM
I did as well... unfortunately no sponsorship :(

Blackbladeshade
05-06-2011, 11:02 AM
Me either.... But I am on the judge list so it isnt all bad

Draconstein
05-06-2011, 01:26 PM
Got mine too, can't wait!

gentlegiant303
05-06-2011, 07:00 PM
Now that sponsorship is out. If people want to post their flights to see about splitting a cab or doing things before or after the event

crisiszero2k1
05-09-2011, 10:54 AM
Question: I was chosen, and I have a pair of Gray on black, very Cryptozoic themed sneakers, are those acceptable? I could put a picture of Bob on them if that helps... just asking :)

Argynt
05-09-2011, 12:57 PM
Question resolved.

Djww19
05-10-2011, 01:15 AM
Question: I was chosen, and I have a pair of Gray on black, very Cryptozoic themed sneakers, are those acceptable? I could put a picture of Bob on them if that helps... just asking :)

If you're judging, I believe it calls for black dress shoes.

crisiszero2k1
05-10-2011, 07:29 AM
If you're judging, I believe it calls for black dress shoes.
The requirements are clean black slacks and black shoes, dress shoes are not specified, as I've seen judges in plain black sneakers, mostly due to the fact that they are standing for hours on end, my question was mostly due to the duality of my sneaker colors

DarkSeverance
05-10-2011, 07:43 AM
If you're judging, I believe it calls for black dress shoes.They don't have to be dress shoes. They should be comfortable but they have to be clean black shoes. I've seen judges wear tennis shoes, dress shoes and boots.

I don't make the official calls but unfortunately I'd have to say you have to have black shoes, even if they are gray/black. It is more about uniform appearance across the board and if they start making exceptions here, then next time someone might have black and red, etc.

crisiszero2k1
05-10-2011, 07:56 AM
Makes total sense to me, thank you much :)

CCGsCards
05-10-2011, 02:41 PM
Black magic markers do wonders.

gentlegiant303
05-12-2011, 05:00 PM
I get in at 9:45 AM Wednesday. I have never been to Vegas before, so I figure I will spend the day looking around. If any one else is interested in doing something let me know.

Djww19
05-13-2011, 04:46 AM
Another volunteer and I get in at 1755 on wednesday, but knowing Delta we'll be there around 1800 the next day. :P

Ferrier13
05-13-2011, 07:40 AM
I should get in around noonish. Still havn't seen any judge packet so not sure what our schedule is gonna look like but if I have free time on Wednesday, I plan to have me some fun.

Patrigan
05-13-2011, 07:42 AM
I should get in around noonish. Still havn't seen any judge packet so not sure what our schedule is gonna look like but if I have free time on Wednesday, I plan to have me some fun.

Free time for judging during tournament hours is overrrated...

Stupnick
05-13-2011, 07:52 AM
Weird question, but how far before event do we know our work schedule? So we can plan for side events and other things...

Patrigan
05-13-2011, 08:07 AM
Weird question, but how far before event do we know our work schedule? So we can plan for side events and other things...

Really? You guys have work schedules? oO

When I judge a European event I NEVER have time for side-events. I wouldn't even want one, I would be bored out of my mind, outside of my schedule...

To be honest, I would rather have more judges on the floor looking for slow play (and adequately handing out said penalty) than give a judge the chance to go play side-events...

Holliebee
05-13-2011, 10:03 AM
My flight gets in at 5:55. :) I'll most likely be exhausted and hungry.

xbennykinsx
05-13-2011, 10:29 AM
Really? You guys have work schedules? oO

When I judge a European event I NEVER have time for side-events. I wouldn't even want one, I would be bored out of my mind, outside of my schedule...

To be honest, I would rather have more judges on the floor looking for slow play (and adequately handing out said penalty) than give a judge the chance to go play side-events...

In America we have a workers comp law.. :p

DanCapt
05-13-2011, 11:23 AM
Wait we get breaks?

Stupnick
05-13-2011, 11:27 AM
I have no idea.... but if the events start at 8/9am and run until 11pm, they can't have you working 14-15 hours a day for the whole time : )

so i was taking a guess... not to mention at gencon and dmf i was seeing people get breaks.. so i was simply making an assumption

Damio
05-13-2011, 11:29 AM
I have no idea.... but if the events start at 8/9am and run until 11pm, they can't have you working 14-15 hours a day for the whole time : )

so i was taking a guess... not to mention at gencon and dmf i was seeing people get breaks.. so i was simply making an assumption


i think you generally get a 30-45 minute dinner break and that's all

xbennykinsx
05-13-2011, 11:54 AM
I know at PAX Prime last year we had shifts.. but they where long shifts. like 9-10 hours.. :D but who knows.

DarkSeverance
05-13-2011, 01:34 PM
I have no idea.... but if the events start at 8/9am and run until 11pm, they can't have you working 14-15 hours a day for the whole time : )It depends on what you are doing and what type of event it is. For example a typical DMF has League is usually 8AM-8PM. Logistics sometimes will have a AM and PM person, but generally you will be working at least 12+ hours. You do get some breaks usually about 15 minutes here and there and sometimes an hour long lunch. Judges tend to have the longer schedule that can be 14 hours, it really depends on what events you will be judging. Some judges will be done before 8 as events die down, then usually you have 2-3 judges still doing the later events until 12AM or whenever the last draft is finally done. There is no time for judges usually to enter in side events because by the time any of the first judges do get off, the last of the side of events would of already started.

Wear comfortable shoes if you are judge, I can't stress this enough. You do get some breaks, take those time to sit down and relax. Drink lots of liquids but this isn't a play event. We usually don't get time to play, we work. Some judges might get in a couple matches of League play on lunch but there really isn't time for judges to enter in side events.

DarkSeverance
05-13-2011, 01:41 PM
not to mention at gencon and dmf i was seeing people get breaks.. so i was simply making an assumption


I know at PAX Prime last year we had shifts.. but they where long shifts. like 9-10 hours.. :D but who knows.GenCon and PAX are a bit different as they tend to have longer hours than a typical DMF. PAX Prime last year was run way differently than PAX East this year. I believe they will probably keep similar hours like PAX East, it was definitely preferred but then again PAX Prime is also twice as large as PAX East. Usually there is a AM and PM crew. So PM crew might be able to get in 1 event in the morning and the AM crew might get 1 event during the evening, but it really depends on the event. Drafts can go longer so often they aren't able to finish it, where if its a Spectral Saffari or core event there could be time. PAX Prime this year will probably be a bit different than last year judging by how it went at PAX East but I'm not sure.

I wouldn't worry about planning about side events. Although they are fun to do, it really shouldn't be a reason why you volunteered. If you happen to have time to do a side event, then great. Otherwise it really is hard work for a good portion of it. I enjoy meeting the players, fielding the interesting judge questions that usually Simon or Jenn are fielding as well. There is a lot to keep you on your toys and it is always great seeing how these events are pulled together (which isn't exactly an easy thing). It is hard work but can be very fulfilling at the end of the day.

DarkSeverance
05-13-2011, 01:55 PM
In America we have a workers comp law.. :pWorkers Comp is a type of insurance for employees who are injured in the course of employment. That doesn't have anything to do with work schedules really. Not to mention it only effects employees (those getting a paid wage). We are volunteers which are not always subject to worker's compensation laws or wage and hour laws (depends on state law, country, etc). There may or may not be subject to other kinds of protections (depending on state laws, country, etc).

Argynt
05-13-2011, 02:05 PM
Well, TECHNICALLY, we would be contract labor, paid in the cards and product we get. In the US it is illegal, for BOTH parties involved, for you to volunteer your time for free to a for-profit business. But if you get something in exchange, no matter how little it is worth, now it's ok again. That makes it contract labor with or without an actual signed contract.

In my reasearch as a business owner, this is due to old laws to prevent slavery. It being a crime for BOTH parties assures (in as far as can be done) that some one can not be coerced into claiming they wanted to give away their time, and actually being made a slave. I know this sounds pretty overly dramatic, but that's the root of the law, and extremely briefly how it works.

xbennykinsx
05-13-2011, 02:29 PM
Workers Comp is a type of insurance for employees who are injured in the course of employment. That doesn't have anything to do with work schedules really. Not to mention it only effects employees (those getting a paid wage). We are volunteers which are not always subject to worker's compensation laws or wage and hour laws (depends on state law, country, etc). There may or may not be subject to other kinds of protections (depending on state laws, country, etc).


Why so serious Jack...

DarkSeverance
05-13-2011, 02:40 PM
Why so serious Jack...Because I don't want to have happened what has happened before... when someone comes to an event thinking it's a vacation. Then after the first day they decide not to work those hours and instead drop from working and play in the events instead. It makes everyone else short handed so I want people to understand what is involved.

xbennykinsx
05-13-2011, 02:56 PM
Because I don't want to have happened what has happened before... when someone comes to an event thinking it's a vacation. Then after the first day they decide not to work those hours and instead drop from working and play in the events instead. It makes everyone else short handed so I want people to understand what is involved.

Volunteering isnt for everyone unfurtently... The real question is, is it Champions dropping or is it judges... and if they do they need to be penalized in some way..

Stupnick
05-13-2011, 03:12 PM
I was simply asking the question, So I can try to see if I would have time to play in some league and have fun and possibly play in the Facebook challenge. I understand it's a lot of work and a weekend full of it... but I also know they aren't going to work staff from 8am when the doors open until midnight when they are going to close the doors, then expect them to be back at 8am the next morning...

I was simply asking a question, to see if we got schedules ahead of time or if they gave them to you there each day. I also have family in Vegas, and they asked when I would be getting my lunch breaks and/or off for evenings or starting in the morning to see if they had time to get together.. It was a simple question of scheduling. The long hours and a lot of what is exactly what I am expecting and have seen. I wouldn't volunteer if I didn't know what I was expecting and getting into. I have worked events, just not a DMF or larger event.

DarkSeverance
05-13-2011, 03:52 PM
I was simply asking the question, So I can try to see if I would have time to play in some league and have fun and possibly play in the Facebook challenge.

I was simply asking a question, to see if we got schedules ahead of time or if they gave them to you there each day. I also have family in Vegas, and they asked when I would be getting my lunch breaks and/or off for evenings or starting in the morning to see if they had time to get together.. It was a simple question of scheduling. The long hours and a lot of what is exactly what I am expecting and have seen. I wouldn't volunteer if I didn't know what I was expecting and getting into. I have worked events, just not a DMF or larger event.Each event is kind of different, depending on the area and what is available. About a week before the event we should be getting judge packets that will do its best to highlight what you will be working (AM, PM and those types of hours). Lunch time isn't usually scheduled, depends on event schedule and what team you are on. We get a stipend for lunches but sometimes they just order us lunch instead. If its a catered lunch or something we usually eat there. You do have the option to do something else for lunch, they tend to be 45-60 minute long. Breaks are done in between that during events, planned by team leads most of the time. Once you get the judge packet you'll get a better idea of your schedule and then can make plans more accordingly to that.

Usually you can get a league game or 2 in during lunch. Sometimes just before your shift or in the evening after your shift you can get a couple matches. If there is coverage and time (usually up to team leads), then you can usually get a couple games in here and there though. The best time to meet up with family, friends is during the evening after events and if you want to do that then you can usually make sure you aren't doing the last draft or something along those lines. Sunday evenings we wrap up fairly early though and Friday isn't as busy as Saturday is. Since this is NACC and DMF things will be slightly different though.

Littlejon24
05-13-2011, 09:27 PM
i don't like the term "Hard Work". i prefer the term "time commitment". when i judged at Gencon last year, it was rough only because i did not know what to expect. now that i know what im getting into, i do not think it will be nearly as hard as the first time. the words Job and Work makes it seem to most Volunteers that they will be doing something strenuous and tiring, when in fact it can be a fun and productive exercise. for example, when i think of the word job, i think of bosses scrutinizing my every action and staying on my tail that i need to get back to work.

judging an event is not hard work. it simply requires your undivided attention and willingness to help out. you need a very positive attitude to judge an event or you will not have a very fun event. nobody wants to think they are going to their 2nd job instead of having a fun weekend.

Djww19
05-13-2011, 11:44 PM
To be honest, I would rather have more judges on the floor looking for slow play (and adequately handing out said penalty) than give a judge the chance to go play side-events...

*Like* x5,000

Patrigan
05-14-2011, 01:12 AM
but I also know they aren't going to work staff from 8am when the doors open until midnight when they are going to close the doors, then expect them to be back at 8am the next morning...

It was Worlds 2008 (I always seem to be getting back to that one). We were expected to be on the site at 7hours and a bit (I think 7:30 it was). At 22:00 I was eating cold leftover pizza, because I was hungry and only had a few minutes to eat.

So yes, it is possible that they are going to work staff from morning to evening. In the event that you get shifts, I highly urge you to take you off-time to SLEEP, because otherwise you will start making errors the next day. If you're one of the lucky guys (I always am) you fall outside of the actual shifts, because a shift was planned, but they need the judges on the floor. Never expect to be able to start your shift when they originally said you can...

Judging is HARD work. It's not just some random day to an event. If a judge at the end of the day/shift would say "I'm not so tired", I would doubt his actual judging skills (unless he's athletic, but I've seen an overweight dude say that once ...)

Also, like I said before, if your shift is over and you don't need to go to bed immediately, stay on the floor to hand out slow-play penalties (or other "You have to watch the game for a few minutes to see the infraction" penalties), the game will only benefit from it...

And if you're now scared to do judging, don't be. Of all things related to this game, judging is one of the most rewarding, not in the materials (although our judge compensation is not bad), but in the emotions and the personal growth. Over my years of judging, I've learned more about how to handle real-life, than I have ever done during school, or work.

Oh and after the tournament is done, try to hang out with your fellow judges, instead of your friends. The bonding is what makes a judge team so strong. Don't just go off to your room with your best-friend, in fact, ignore your friends and lovers during the weekend. Hang out with the rest of the crew, we will love you for that.

/end "Sentimental statement about how I actually love judging" (the hard work I even love the most).

Stupnick
05-14-2011, 08:07 AM
It was Worlds 2008 (I always seem to be getting back to that one). We were expected to be on the site at 7hours and a bit (I think 7:30 it was). At 22:00 I was eating cold leftover pizza, because I was hungry and only had a few minutes to eat.

So yes, it is possible that they are going to work staff from morning to evening. In the event that you get shifts, I highly urge you to take you off-time to SLEEP, because otherwise you will start making errors the next day. If you're one of the lucky guys (I always am) you fall outside of the actual shifts, because a shift was planned, but they need the judges on the floor. Never expect to be able to start your shift when they originally said you can...

Judging is HARD work. It's not just some random day to an event. If a judge at the end of the day/shift would say "I'm not so tired", I would doubt his actual judging skills (unless he's athletic, but I've seen an overweight dude say that once ...)

Also, like I said before, if your shift is over and you don't need to go to bed immediately, stay on the floor to hand out slow-play penalties (or other "You have to watch the game for a few minutes to see the infraction" penalties), the game will only benefit from it...

And if you're now scared to do judging, don't be. Of all things related to this game, judging is one of the most rewarding, not in the materials (although our judge compensation is not bad), but in the emotions and the personal growth. Over my years of judging, I've learned more about how to handle real-life, than I have ever done during school, or work.

Oh and after the tournament is done, try to hang out with your fellow judges, instead of your friends. The bonding is what makes a judge team so strong. Don't just go off to your room with your best-friend, in fact, ignore your friends and lovers during the weekend. Hang out with the rest of the crew, we will love you for that.

/end "Sentimental statement about how I actually love judging" (the hard work I even love the most).

Yes I understand what you are saying.. if I was judging, but as I have said a few times I will be staff.... So that is quite different.. I can just hang around the league desk and keep working after they close... I can't go take over the sign up table from someone else... I can help out as I would be as much as I can... but Judging is different. And personally there is no different in someone physical shape as to how tired he would be and how many mistakes he would make, that's just crazy to try to coralate(sp?) those.

But I do appreciate the replies.... and I am sure everyone else out there does too.

Scottevil
05-14-2011, 11:16 AM
Here are some realistic expectations for judges at the NACC.

Thursday - Side Events: Judges will be working these events during the day. Judges will be realeased as events start to taper off and only a few judges will be asked to stay late to cover later-running events. Around 2-5 judges will be asked depending on size of events.

Friday - NACC Main/Side Events: We will need most judges to be on hand for the main event. As side events start up, the Side Event Team lead will move to those and then additonal judges as needed. A few judges will be asked to start later to cover the late-running side events. when the Main is done, those judges will be released unless side events is getting slammed. But if they were getting slammed, judges would have already been moved to those events. Then as the side events taper off, judges will be released leaving the late night shift to close out. This will be about 2-5 judges. Judges who worked late the day before will be the first to be released.

Saturday - NACC Top 96/DMF/Side Events - Judges split roughly half and half between NACC and DMF. Shifting will occur as necessary between the events. Gradually, judges will also move to side events as necessary. a small group will again be asked to stay for the late night events. Ones who have previously stayed late will not be asked. As the events finish, judges will be released until we are down to the night crew only. Previous late night judges will generally be the first released.

Sunday - NACC T8/DMF T8/ Side events - only a handful of judges needed for T8 matches. Others will help with side events. This is also a day for trying to put together an extra judge seminar or two and have judges rotate. Judges will be released as events and seminars taper off. A small group will be asked to stay and help with wrapping up events and helping package up the stage areas.


- This is only a rough outline of the event. Many factors may change this. Attendance, issues, etc.
- The goal is to not have anyone stay late more than 1 night. This will allow for evening gaming, crafting, etc.
- The goal is also to get everyone at least 2 breaks throughout the day of 30-60 min each. It is not desired to have judges work non-stop with little breaks or food. This only causes judge burnout and is detrimental to the Judge program. If you need breaks beyond the ones given, ask! The HJ and organizers are not misers. Judging an event, while tiring, should be fun. If you are not having fun judging the event, you are doing something wrong!
- When your shift is over, do something other then judging. Eat, drink, game, craft, sleep, etc. While sticking around and watching for slow-play may slightly benefit the tournament itself, burning yourself out and losing a good judge because of it is bad for the judge program.
- If there is a late night event you want to be in on a certain night and need to be let off 15 min early, ask! If coverage allows, it can possibly be arranged. Obviously everyone cannot be accommodated all the time, but it never hurts to ask!

Scott Lelivelt
Artisan Judge

gentlegiant303
05-14-2011, 03:55 PM
I have to agree with Scott here. As someone who has worked several large events for different games. When you are done judging you should do something else. I have made great friends just by going to to dinner with other judges. As someone said before the stronger the friendships are in the judge community the more we can help each other out. Be sure you have fun, it is hard work, but if you are not enjoying it you can become less interested in what you are doing. This is when mistakes happen. Also I would like to stress the importance of sleep. While hanging out and playing is great, sleep is important. Do not stay up all night playing and then be too tired to judge in the morning.

Patrigan
05-14-2011, 09:53 PM
Here are some realistic expectations for judges at the NACC.

Thursday - Side Events: Judges will be working these events during the day. Judges will be realeased as events start to taper off and only a few judges will be asked to stay late to cover later-running events. Around 2-5 judges will be asked depending on size of events.

Friday - NACC Main/Side Events: We will need most judges to be on hand for the main event. As side events start up, the Side Event Team lead will move to those and then additonal judges as needed. A few judges will be asked to start later to cover the late-running side events. when the Main is done, those judges will be released unless side events is getting slammed. But if they were getting slammed, judges would have already been moved to those events. Then as the side events taper off, judges will be released leaving the late night shift to close out. This will be about 2-5 judges. Judges who worked late the day before will be the first to be released.

Saturday - NACC Top 96/DMF/Side Events - Judges split roughly half and half between NACC and DMF. Shifting will occur as necessary between the events. Gradually, judges will also move to side events as necessary. a small group will again be asked to stay for the late night events. Ones who have previously stayed late will not be asked. As the events finish, judges will be released until we are down to the night crew only. Previous late night judges will generally be the first released.

Sunday - NACC T8/DMF T8/ Side events - only a handful of judges needed for T8 matches. Others will help with side events. This is also a day for trying to put together an extra judge seminar or two and have judges rotate. Judges will be released as events and seminars taper off. A small group will be asked to stay and help with wrapping up events and helping package up the stage areas.


- This is only a rough outline of the event. Many factors may change this. Attendance, issues, etc.
- The goal is to not have anyone stay late more than 1 night. This will allow for evening gaming, crafting, etc.
- The goal is also to get everyone at least 2 breaks throughout the day of 30-60 min each. It is not desired to have judges work non-stop with little breaks or food. This only causes judge burnout and is detrimental to the Judge program. If you need breaks beyond the ones given, ask! The HJ and organizers are not misers. Judging an event, while tiring, should be fun. If you are not having fun judging the event, you are doing something wrong!
- When your shift is over, do something other then judging. Eat, drink, game, craft, sleep, etc. While sticking around and watching for slow-play may slightly benefit the tournament itself, burning yourself out and losing a good judge because of it is bad for the judge program.
- If there is a late night event you want to be in on a certain night and need to be let off 15 min early, ask! If coverage allows, it can possibly be arranged. Obviously everyone cannot be accommodated all the time, but it never hurts to ask!

Scott Lelivelt
Artisan Judge

Even though I agree with most of what you said, you're making it seem way too perfect. These are not really realistic expectations, it's an utopic version of how most organizers want to see things happen. Starting even 30 minutes later will delay all main event plans. That said, it serves as an outline for the actual planning.

(I don't agree with the burnout thingy. I agree that a judge should not get burned out, but if the judge can still go on, being on the floor is better (I get more easily tired from playing than judging), but that's another discussion, I think)

Aaric
05-15-2011, 02:42 AM
I'm not 100% sure where you are getting the starting 30 minutes late thing, but if you're referring to the break period, they won't wait until the judge gets back to start the event. There's plenty of judges on hand to cover. With the exception of the first few hours, there probably isn't a single period the whole day in which every judge is on the floor. Scott's expectations are right on the nose. If anything, he's being conservative about it. Staff, HJ's and team leads are always asking how you're doing throughout the day, making sure you're getting enough breaks, food & water, etc.

Scottevil
05-15-2011, 06:50 AM
Any delay in starting the event should not affect my outline at all. I did not mention specific times when judges would be released. Attendance is the main factor that will affect that outline.

While continuing to judge after your shift is admirable, it is not necessary. What is necessary is having a judge ready to go the next day or retaining that good judge so that he WANTS to come back for the next large event. If you personally put in the extra time because you have the energy, then great. But I feel it should not be ordered nor encouraged of other judges to do so. Especially judges working their first large event.

Scott Lelivelt
Artisan Judge

Littlejon24
05-15-2011, 08:54 AM
Gencon, all of Friday i judged and it was exhausting. no other day at Gencon compared to that Friday. i also was expecting to think it was going to be like a job, but i found that CZE and your co-judges simply want you to try and relax and take care of yourself instead of worrying about your tasks 100%.

DarkSeverance
05-15-2011, 11:17 AM
Even though I agree with most of what you said, you're making it seem way too perfect. These are not really realistic expectations, it's an utopic version of how most organizers want to see things happen. Starting even 30 minutes later will delay all main event plans. That said, it serves as an outline for the actual planning.

(I don't agree with the burnout thingy. I agree that a judge should not get burned out, but if the judge can still go on, being on the floor is better (I get more easily tired from playing than judging), but that's another discussion, I think)Actually what he wrote was pretty spot on and very accurate of events. Yes it doesn't exactly work out as picture perfect but it is a very good outline of what is expected. He does account that some factors can change the outline a bit but it does outline time a Judge is spent on the floor. Granted this is for judges only really. Logistics, League, Registration, etc have a bit of a different schedule than judges.

There is one key thing I need to highlight that he said, "If you need breaks beyond the ones given, ask! The HJ and organizers are not misers.". Communication is very important. If you feel tired and need an extra break or if you want to meet up with someone for an extended lunch, ask. There are usually enough judges to cover this providing people communicate with each other.

Some judges won't burn out no matter how long they work. They enjoy judging and have fun at judging. However this isn't a realistic expectation of all judges. It isn't so much being burnt that is the issue, although it does contribute to it... it is more relax, have fun and take a break. You want to have an enjoyable time and not feel like you're at boot camp. If someone can do more, great, feel free to communicate with your team leads, etc... but it shouldn't be expected to go on until you feel you can't go on more. The first night you might feel fine, extend yourself a bit further and then not realize the toll that the rest of the week will have on you. That is why they want you take breaks, relax, rest, sleep, play, etc.

Patrigan
05-15-2011, 11:31 AM
There is one key thing I need to highlight that he said, "If you need breaks beyond the ones given, ask! The HJ and organizers are not misers.". Communication is very important. If you feel tired and need an extra break or if you want to meet up with someone for an extended lunch, ask. There are usually enough judges to cover this providing people communicate with each other.

This. This is by far the only remark that adequately reflects actual tournaments. Yes, everyone will ask if you need one (normally in first place your team lead), but you are the first person to know when you actually need a break.

All these outlines are not important in the end. I'll just leave it at the fact that European events simply are different from American (we're notoriously known for being understaffed ^^). What is actually important is that you have a good time in judging.

Argynt
05-15-2011, 11:37 AM
I'll just leave it at the fact that European events simply are different from American (we're notoriously known for being understaffed ^^).

I'd be happy to come help staff. If it's so understaffed perhaps they'd be willing to spring for a flight. :D

Benhameen
05-15-2011, 01:49 PM
Even though I agree with most of what you said, you're making it seem way too perfect. These are not really realistic expectations, it's an utopic version of how most organizers want to see things happen. Starting even 30 minutes later will delay all main event plans. That said, it serves as an outline for the actual planning.

(I don't agree with the burnout thingy. I agree that a judge should not get burned out, but if the judge can still go on, being on the floor is better (I get more easily tired from playing than judging), but that's another discussion, I think)

Having managed almost all the major WoW TCG events in North America since the game started, and a "few" for a number of other major TCGs, I can say that we hit those times about 95% of the time. Rarely you have something crazy happen - software meltdown, a problem with the venue - but those are pretty rare these days.

It's why we're a little OCD about tracking round times, making sure the times between rounds are efficient as possible, etc. Because shaving 3-4 minutes a round makes a huge difference at the end of the day.

Littlejon24
05-15-2011, 02:13 PM
you could possibly shave off 30-40 minutes off the day by saving 3-4 minutes per round

Patrigan
05-16-2011, 12:40 AM
Having managed almost all the major WoW TCG events in North America since the game started, and a "few" for a number of other major TCGs, I can say that we hit those times about 95% of the time. Rarely you have something crazy happen - software meltdown, a problem with the venue - but those are pretty rare these days.

It's why we're a little OCD about tracking round times, making sure the times between rounds are efficient as possible, etc. Because shaving 3-4 minutes a round makes a huge difference at the end of the day.

Which is why those Slow-Play warnings are so so important, even during extra time.

gentlegiant303
05-16-2011, 01:01 AM
Which is why those Slow-Play warnings are so so important, even during extra time.

I do not think you will find anyone here who disagrees with you on the importance of players playing faster. You just seem to have a different view of judging then some of us. That is not bad, having talks like this can only be good for the judge program.

Patrigan
05-16-2011, 01:26 AM
I do not think you will find anyone here who disagrees with you on the importance of players playing faster. You just seem to have a different view of judging then some of us. That is not bad, having talks like this can only be good for the judge program.

I wouldn't call it a different view, because I agree with everything said here. I would just call it different experiences. In the past, European tournaments were often understaffed. I've rarely had an event, where judges would have the time to actually sit down and play. That's not to say it was never allowed. The only event I can remember was World Cup and there we were overstaffed with all those Americans that came to Europe. Here's hoping for similar fun at Worlds in Amsterdam.

Dismissile
05-17-2011, 08:46 AM
My first event judging was earlier in the year at DMF Orlando. I wore black dress shoes. After the first day my feet hurt so much that I had to go buy some Dr. Scholl's insoles. I judged Chicago and ended up buying a new pair of shoes for the event. They were a lot more comfortable. My feet still hurt after 3 days of standing/walking but it was a lot better than the dress shoes. Ibuprofen also helps :)

martinezjkind
05-17-2011, 09:14 PM
I have been a judge and a player to a lot of events ( 3 nationals, 2 DMFs, a handful of side conventions , and nearly all the RC and a lot of RQ ) Judging ,while it can be hard work, is actually always been a good experience for me . Met new people , seen some I have not talked to in a while , and generally realize what I love about this game all over again . Judging is a lot like work at times , there is no mistaking about that , that is why the compensate people for there time and effort .Only thing I am worried about is that some players are now becomes judges because they realize it is a better pay out for them instead of playing ..........I am a little worried about the motivation of judges like that .

Well besides that last point , I have always had fun and hope to judge more events , even if they are local like battlegrounds.

gentlegiant303
05-17-2011, 09:56 PM
The issue of people becoming judges to get comp is something that we as a judge program need to work on. I believe that is up the expert level and higher judges to make sure that we do not give tests to people who only want comp. But from my experience with other games, people who get into judging for that reason weed themselves out when they figure out how much work we put in.

This idea could be an interesting topic for a seminar for higher level judges.

Patrigan
05-17-2011, 10:01 PM
The issue of people becoming judges to get comp is something that we as a judge program need to work on. I believe that is up the expert level and higher judges to make sure that we do not give tests to people who only want comp. But from my experience with other games, people who get into judging for that reason weed themselves out when they figure out how much work we put in.

This idea could be an interesting topic for a seminar for higher level judges.

But what do you do when you see an awesome judge (knows the rules, awesome PM and great leading skills), but you know he's only there for the compensation. How do you handle that.

Argynt
05-17-2011, 10:04 PM
Really, who cares WHY some one is Volunteering, as long as when they do they meet or exceed all expectations of them? No one is going to hear about the Volunteer package and decided that despite the fact that they don't play or collect the game that bag of stuff is SO good they must have it. Any Volunteer is going to be drawn from a pool of people who play and enjoy the game.

Patrigan
05-17-2011, 10:23 PM
Really, who cares WHY some one is Volunteering, as long as when they do they meet or exceed all expectations of them? No one is going to hear about the Volunteer package and decided that despite the fact that they don't play or collect the game that bag of stuff is SO good they must have it. Any Volunteer is going to be drawn from a pool of people who play and enjoy the game.

Well said Argynt. Even though people might judge only for the compensation, more often than not they will be decent judges. They will not necessarily exceed all expectations, but they will suffice. As long as the amount of Artisans is limited (and the amount of masters is zilch) we actually need these kinds of judges.

On top of that, a judge that's in it only for compensation the first time, might return because he had a good time. But having a good time depends also on the other volunteers. If one of them is already negative about him because he's just in it for the compensation, then this good time might be difficult to be had. That is why, no matter what, all new judges should be treated equal. But they should be well informed up-front.

gentlegiant303
05-18-2011, 12:07 AM
I feel that what I said was not worded well. I was trying to say that we as higher level judges should be looking for this. I know I started judging, not this game, because of the comp, but then I loved it and now 8 years later I am still here. People start judging for many reasons. It is up to us to make sure everyone has the best time they can. I am not saying that we should treat people differently if we think they are there only for the comp, I was saying that looking for judges to advance its something we should take into mind.

Borow
05-18-2011, 03:44 AM
When I judge a European event I NEVER have time for side-events.

Same thing, so it's why on last two tournaments i went (antwerp/world cup), i prefered to play than judge to have a real break.

Patrigan
05-18-2011, 03:48 AM
I feel that what I said was not worded well. I was trying to say that we as higher level judges should be looking for this. I know I started judging, not this game, because of the comp, but then I loved it and now 8 years later I am still here. People start judging for many reasons. It is up to us to make sure everyone has the best time they can. I am not saying that we should treat people differently if we think they are there only for the comp, I was saying that looking for judges to advance its something we should take into mind.

What do you do when you have an awesome Expert judge, someone capable of Head Judging DMFs, but the person doesn't want to advance to Artisan?

So now I'm going to say the exact opposite of my previous post and if you see the difference, I think you're certainly ready for training other judges.

Every judge is unique and should be given a unique training, even if he doesn't want to advance.

PS; This wasn't meant for GentleGiant in particular. One of the main issues I had with my own progress as a judge, was leaning on other judges their strengths.

gentlegiant303
05-18-2011, 12:52 PM
Patrigan I agree that we have to help all judges. Also its fine if a great judge does not want to advance. Each judge is unique. I feel that we both want the same thing, a great judge program for CZE. We just have different views on how to achieve this.

Patrigan
05-18-2011, 10:30 PM
Patrigan I agree that we have to help all judges. Also its fine if a great judge does not want to advance. Each judge is unique. I feel that we both want the same thing, a great judge program for CZE. We just have different views on how to achieve this.

Do we really? Explain that to me, where are you and me so different?

gentlegiant303
05-18-2011, 10:56 PM
We are not that different. We just seem to have different views on what the program needs, neither of which is wrong. I just expect more from judges. It is something I have been working on. But it is how I am.

martinezjkind
05-19-2011, 01:39 AM
Well it should matter why a judge chooses to judge . I saw players start this game just for the cash prizes and then bad mouth it cause they did not place highly. They reason why a person does something can effect someone's loyalty to that idea.Last thing I want is a bunch of good judges who, when a game has better comp for them , decide to jump ship.

Scottevil
05-19-2011, 07:21 AM
I don't have a problem with a new judges motives for judging as long as they are active judges ongoing. This means actually judging (local store, realm q's, bigger events, etc.) and doing a solid job of it. Where I have a problem is when an L1 judge wants to take the L2 test for the wrong reasons. such as:

"I'm bored and want to see if I can pass it"
"I may get better judge gift mailings at L2"

But if they actively judge within the expectations of their level and do a decent job at it, there is nothing wrong with being enthusiastic about the comp.

Now if an expert judge wants to test for Artisan, that person needs to demonstrate more participation in the program especially from a mentoring standpoint.

Scott Lelivelt
Artisan Judge

Patrigan
05-19-2011, 08:25 AM
Now if an expert judge wants to test for Artisan, that person needs to demonstrate more participation in the program especially from a mentoring standpoint.

Scott Lelivelt
Artisan Judge

I always think it's weird that mentoring isn't part of the requirements for Artisan, but it is for Master.

I would say that an expert wanting to become an artisan should prove he has extensive RK and PM and is able to lead a team (teamlead at DMF level event) and shows interest in mentoring. With other words, mentoring other judges shouldn't be expected from an expert since it's only part of the duties of an artisan. He should, however show interest.

Obviously this is a small nuance, but it could make the difference in how people look at the program. Either you say that an expert should do what is expected from an Artisan, or you say that an expert should have mastered his own duties and show interest in the next level. This is something that should be clarified, I think.

Benhameen
05-20-2011, 09:31 AM
you could possibly shave off 30-40 minutes off the day by saving 3-4 minutes per round

Oops. :)

What I meant to say is shaving a few minutes off of the 3-4 actions every round like efficiently entering results, having a fast printer, posting pairings quickly, returning decks from deck checks (these matches have time extensions and make the round longer if they go to time), etc can really add up.

I think everyone involved is happier if we wrap up even 30 minutes earlier, and especially with big Core events it's easy to save well over an hour just by watching the little things.

BD

demonfae
05-20-2011, 12:16 PM
The issue of people becoming judges to get comp is something that we as a judge program need to work on. I believe that is up the expert level and higher judges to make sure that we do not give tests to people who only want comp. But from my experience with other games, people who get into judging for that reason weed themselves out when they figure out how much work we put in.

This idea could be an interesting topic for a seminar for higher level judges.

I'm going to admit first that I didn't read this entire thread; I stopped at this post because something struck me as pretty odd.

Why do we feel like we should punish judges who are "just in it for the comp"? In the grand scheme of things, should we really care what a judge's motivations for judging are, provided that they perform their duties in an acceptable way and with an acceptable level of knowledge? There's absolutely no reason to tell a judge who judges for the comp "No, you can't take your next level test." In my head, that approach is completely absurd. The goal of the judge program is to create (for lack of a better word) competent, efficient judges that can run great events. Their motivation shouldn't have that much of an impact on what they can do in the judge program (with one caveat, which I'll explain in a second). If a person is genuinely interested in judging, for whatever reason, and is going to put that certification to use by working events, then let them and leave them to examine their own motivations.

We don't lose anything by catering to judges who judge, or even get started judging, for the comp. It's something I'd argue we need to do to get more good judges into the program--sometimes they have to have a reason for testing the waters.

That all said, to the caveat! Imagine that you're Mike Girard and you have one judge spot left open for NACC. You've narrowed it down to two candidates who have exactly equal qualifications (judge level, general ability, experience, etc.) and who complement the existing staff the same way. One of them, you know, judges more for the comp than for the love of judging, and one doesn't care if you send him home with just a Paint Bomb loot and a "Thanks!" Regardless, you'd still have to give them both the same comp at the end of the weekend. Which do you choose?

Morp
05-20-2011, 12:33 PM
How often do they both apply? Get excepted? Who has had more chances to work a DMF/special event? I always to get give chances to everyone and spread it around to make a stronger overall staff. These maybe the same, so it may come down to who is more ready/spirited to level up or needs the more live experience/one on one time with experienced judges (cause they are close) to get them to where they desire or could be at. If all in all maybe the same either find away to bring both or talk to them both on there plans and yours or who can come to the next event to get this treatment. Last it maybe flip of a coin. The order I posted is important to narrowing it down to the final spot for the event. Comp is a very good perk to have and many judges rely on to help pay there way in the program. Dont matter much at all if they want the perk for collection or finances. Personally I use it for both collecting and to support my love and judge hobby.

martinezjkind
05-20-2011, 01:59 PM
I always thought that part of being a higher level judge or a champion of the black flame was promoting the game . Whether it is helping new players learn the game , pitching the TCG to a new store , or telling people about your experiences at events , a persons emotions show through.When someone has a true passion and love of a game , it comes through loud and clear and it is very hard to fake that feeling .We all have seen that in a workplace , where one person loves there job and everything about it and there is another who is just going through the motions. When the boss needs a go to guy , someone who will go that extra mile , that will help others when he can , and is happy to accept new assignments ,who will he pick ? I have done start events where I was thanked by the husband for not just winning outright , but actually teaching both him and his wife how to play . A higher level judge and a Champion both take on more roles then just rules arbitration, we do grassroot marketing , we teach new player , we mediate conflicts, and that is just a small list of things we do that your emotions can really help you.

Tommi
05-20-2011, 03:17 PM
1. There are sellers which are born to be sellers. They can sell everything and sell whatever you want only to earn money with it.
2. And then there are sellers which sell a specific product out of their heart because they identify with this product. As a side effect, they earn money selling this product, maybe making their hobby a profession.

Is any of them better than the other? Both should have an equal opportunity to climb the ladder the same way and to the same level.

I don't really care about the motivation of a judge. It is all the same to me. As long as they are efficient in doing their job and able to integrate in THE team, they're welcome.

gentlegiant303
05-20-2011, 04:51 PM
I was not trying to say that we should not give comp to our judges or let people work events. I wad saying that, in my experience, people who only judge for comp are not as good judges. When looking at giving people the higher level tests, their motivation for taking it should be taken into account, I feel. As an above poster said, judging involves doing things not only answering rules stuff. I can only speak to my experience, which is limited with WOW to one dmf maybe it is different among wow judges, but I have found that the better judges do it for the love of judging and the comp is just a nice thing at the end.

Aaric
05-20-2011, 11:19 PM
Frankly, I wouldn't care if the guy flipping my burger is doing it because he wants a paycheck or because he loves the smell of sizzling beef. As long as it's cooked well why does it matter WHY it was cooked well?

I disagree with the above statement that motivation-by-comp makes for poor judges. If the comp advertised was instead something like..."six boosters of Dark Portal and an autographed picture of the hotel manager" nobody would apply. If you break judge comp down into sheer monetary value, it's not much different than an average jobs payday. If you're that worried about comp being a poor motivation for judging, did you give your stuff back after you judged at that one DMF and say "no thanks, I just do it for the love of the game"?

Isn't this thread kind of off-topic at this point?

Patrigan
05-21-2011, 12:05 AM
an autographed picture of the hotel manager" nobody would apply

If she's REALLY hot, I might still apply.

Johnson
05-21-2011, 03:46 PM
Frankly, I wouldn't care if the guy flipping my burger is doing it because he wants a paycheck or because he loves the smell of sizzling beef. As long as it's cooked well why does it matter WHY it was cooked well?
I believe we all agree on this point: as long as the work is done well it doesn't matter why the guy does it. However, some won't do the work as well because they have wrong motivations (but only a small fraction of those persons). We should avoid promoting those motivations while not ostracising them.

If the comp advertised was instead something like..."six boosters of Dark Portal and an autographed picture of the hotel manager" nobody would apply.
You'd be surprised (some other companies are very cheap when giving compensations for their judges).

Isn't this thread kind of off-topic at this point?
True, but this discussion is still very interesting.

Aaric
05-21-2011, 06:35 PM
If they don't do their job well they won't be asked back.

sartorissnopes
05-24-2011, 09:34 PM
NACC is about three weeks away and I have not heard anything about the schedule or room arrangements. Has anyone who received a sponsorship heard anything?

DanCapt
05-24-2011, 11:09 PM
Should hear about it about 2 weeks out

Djww19
06-07-2011, 04:53 AM
Should hear about it about 2 weeks out

Umm... yeah... about that... Anyone heard anything yet? :/

Aaric
06-07-2011, 08:41 AM
Umm... yeah... about that... Anyone heard anything yet? :/
Not yet. It is kinda close to go time though, I'm betting we get it today, or tomorrow at latest.

Littlejon24
06-08-2011, 11:18 PM
just got an email from Mr. Girard, but can not open the files as i do not have excel. is there any way to obtain a non-excel version of the attachments or find an equivalent program to open the files with?

Aaric
06-08-2011, 11:40 PM
Can we bring appeals to the XO or only the head judge?

For those of use with sponsored hotel rooms, could we possibly get our roomamtes name and e-mail?

DanCapt
06-08-2011, 11:40 PM
Try open office. Its a free download and opens the file just fine.

Skinner
06-08-2011, 11:52 PM
just got an email from Mr. Girard, but can not open the files as i do not have excel. is there any way to obtain a non-excel version of the attachments or find an equivalent program to open the files with?

Google Documents should open it.

Scottevil
06-09-2011, 04:22 AM
Can we bring appeals to the XO or only the head judge?

The XO cannot do appeals unless the HJ is not physically present. Such as a bathroom break. If the HJ is on another appeal, the XO cannot take an appeal.

We will talk more about the XO position at the event. It is something we are trying out.

Scott Lelivelt
Artisan Judge

Morp
06-09-2011, 07:38 AM
Scott can you send me info on this XO idea thing you guys are trying at nats. I wont be there but trying to stay in the loop.

Patrigan
06-09-2011, 08:04 AM
I'm curious to this XO idea as well. Send me the information too, if you wouldn't mind.

DarkSeverance
06-09-2011, 09:22 AM
XO

The XO is the “Second in Command” of the Main Event. This judge’s duties include being a second set of eyes and ears for the Head Judge, provide mentoring and guidance to the Team Leaders and filling in wherever needs arise during the Main Event. The XO is also expected to provide feedback to the Head Judge both during and after the event.

LennyV
06-09-2011, 10:47 AM
Here's a map of the hotel for anyone who needs it:
http://www.parislasvegas.com/images/non_image_assets/PLV_paris_las_vegas_property_map.pdf

-Lenny

crisiszero2k1
06-09-2011, 11:51 AM
Wait.... are Bally's and The Paris connected?!

DanCapt
06-09-2011, 12:02 PM
They sure are.

crisiszero2k1
06-09-2011, 12:11 PM
Awesome, I had booked at the Bally's and was wondering how far my walk was.

Ranolen
06-09-2011, 03:02 PM
Awesome, I had booked at the Bally's and was wondering how far my walk was.

Same here, that's why I booked there. Half the price, but still connected.

DanCapt
06-09-2011, 06:38 PM
Anyone arriving around 10pm on Wednesday night? Looking to split a cab...

demonfae
06-09-2011, 06:43 PM
I'm curious to this XO idea as well. Send me the information too, if you wouldn't mind.

It's sort of already existed in the past, there was just never an official title for the position, unless you count "shadow." Looks like it's going to be a fun weekend :)

Patrigan
06-09-2011, 10:31 PM
XO

The XO is the “Second in Command” of the Main Event. This judge's duties include being a second set of eyes and ears for the Head Judge, provide mentoring and guidance to the Team Leaders and filling in wherever needs arise during the Main Event. The XO is also expected to provide feedback to the Head Judge both during and after the event.

Oh... I can assure you that the system works good. We didn't use that name, but we've been doing a very similar system in Europe already. In European events, we have a primary substitute for the whole tournament and all level 3s fullfill the "extra pair of eyes" duty. We're constantly discussing all judges with eachother and the HJ. I don't believe one extra set of eyes is enough. However, the system we use requires a strong team of higher level judges. the most difficult part being the ability to watch eachother, making sure noone does double tasks.

The only thing with the system that I didn't like that much is the actual substitute part. I can see problems arise when a substitute is called for an appeal. Players will probably not accept his appeal, as he's not the actual HJ. To this day, this hasn't happened before, but it requires only one player to give us this extra downtime.

Let everyone know about your findings on this system. I'm curious to how we can improve our own.


It's sort of already existed in the past, there was just never an official title for the position, unless you count "shadow." Looks like it's going to be a fun weekend :)

or Substitute. But yeah, I figured already it wasn't "new". So who will be the XO, if I may be so curious? ^^

demonfae
06-10-2011, 09:19 PM
That's actually come up in the past, Patrick. NACC the year before last, I think, or it might have been Worlds, one of the two. A ruling got appealed while the HJ was AFK. The XO (of the time) took the appeal and the players didn't have a problem with it. Not to say that that's true of every player in every event, of course.

Aaric
06-11-2011, 12:02 AM
Just curious if a situation like Patrick said should come up at NACC, if a player makes an appeal and the head judge is drainin' the dragon or something, does that player have the right to ask the XO to wait for the head judge or is the XO's ruling final?

Argynt
06-11-2011, 05:48 AM
sounds to me like the intent is if the head judge is not present, the point of the XO is they are head judge *at that time*. So, I would believe no, you don't get to wait for the head judge to come back.

Aaric
06-11-2011, 06:50 AM
That's what I would assume, but on the off chance I do come accross that situation I would want to be 100% sure. No doubt they'll explain it to us further during the judge meeting.

On a slightly different subject, is there a set schedule for the judge seminars, and will each one be held more than once? There's at least one I would like to attend but my duties might keep me busy.

Patrigan
06-13-2011, 11:43 AM
Just curious if a situation like Patrick said should come up at NACC, if a player makes an appeal and the head judge is drainin' the dragon or something, does that player have the right to ask the XO to wait for the head judge or is the XO's ruling final?

In the heart of the position, I would say the XO is final at that time. I think that it might give one or two problems in the beginning, but once players are used to the concept, it won't matter much anymore.