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  1. #1

    Unbalanced outcomes in 1 v 1 (ONLY)

    through a lot of testing with this game in 1 v 1 matches ( single or double super heroes ) there tends to be a large gap in points at the end of the game. If this is also true for you, then i have some ideas that have helped to balance the games BUT if you have more ideas i would like to hear them.

    1.) We took the man of steel out of the deck all together. This card is unbalanced like no other! Whoever acquires this card usually dominated the game if they get it before the 3rd Super villain is defeated that is.

    2.) In 2 headed format, we took out Wonder Woman Super Hero as an option. Leaving the other 6 super heroes (we dont have the manhunter to use)

    3.) I do not know if it is in the rules of how exactly to play a turn out, but we have played it where you can play cards from your hand, gain cards, and play more cards from your hand. Example: Aquaman can play heat vision, gain a Kick and put it on top of his deck, then play Kid Flash to then draw it, then play Kick for more power.

    step 3 makes the game more of a strategy game as opposed to dumping your hand and just gaining the cards.

  2. #2
    1) Feel free to tune the deck however you like to better suit your play needs.

    2) Again, play with whatever superheros you want, bit out of curiosity are you taking Wonder Woman out because you feel she is over or underpowered? I'm not in either camp and curious about your reasoning.

    3) That is how the game is supposed to be played. You do not have to play all your cards before buying cards.
    Nathaniel Yamaguchi
    CZE Playtester & Designer

  3. #3
    1.) tuning the deck makes the game no fun. Its like any other card game where when you ban something, the game starts to slip away. We took serious consideration into even taking out Man of Steel, but it is truly unbalanced. I had a turn where i went from just M.o.S. in my hand to buying the entire board and like 7 kicks.

    2.) Wonder Woman in 2 heads is super over powered for the following:
    a.) She goes after villain cards which no other hero needs, and in a 2 heads game you tend to go for cards that suit BOTH of
    your super heroes. Thus, she is left a good chunk of the villain cards in the line up.

    b.) She sets up every other super hero in the game. Pick any hero.... start with more than 5 cards every turn..... The 2nd
    super hero triggers more often / more times a turn, EVERY TURN essentially.

    And yes we took her out. And yes we pick our super heroes. In the 2 heads, we dealt 3 super heroes to player 1, they picked 1 and mucked 2, then player 2 was dealt 3 super heroes, they picked 1 and mucked 2. Then player 1 is dealt 2 super heroes, picks 1, player 2 the same. Wonder Woman was an auto pick in either round of drafting super heroes. Not saying she cant be beat, its just drastically harder for the other player to even keep up.

  4. #4
    Eternal Guardian
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    WDM, IA
    Played team up variant yesterday with my son. He had Wonder Woman and GL, I had Aquaman and MM. I won by 5 or 6 with both scores in the 40's. I snagged Princess Diana before he could and grabbed 3 super villians on 1 turn, plus I played Batman to grab the 1 equipment in the lineup and bought the fifth card and I ended up with only 6 power or so. My son probably would have won had the Anti-monitor not forced him to to place Atrocitous into the line-up.(He did get it back though.)

    The point is, sometimes you have to take cards to slow down your opponent just as much as you need to take cards that work well with your hero. If your opponent has taken 2 Suicide Squads and your turn comes around and third pops up and you don't buy it's your fault, not the game's.

    Sometimes strong combos appear and one player get's to take advantage of it. Other times you sit there with Wonder Woman and no Villians appear for many turns. It's just a game. Over the long run things will normalize and other heroes will appear just as overpowered, except Flash. Poor Flash.
    Go Fish

  5. #5
    Flash is really good. Get a location, or any other card that draws and you are set. Plus he goes 1st, which makes a difference in this game! going 1st is a huge advantage. Look at it this way, the board has 5 cards (1 good, 2 ok..., and 2 bad) the 1st player has the opportunity to get the good card, flipping a random one to replace, now the 2nd player has 2 ok, 2 bad, and random. It continues like this. the 1st player has the option at the "better" or "more suitable" cards.

    Yes you can block wonder woman or batman or cyborg or superman, BUT wonder woman always the super villain pile and superman always has kicks (early on that is, and kicks generally dont run out).

  6. #6
    I'm fascinated to see people arguing over what Superheroes and cards they find unbalanced. I have had no issues with Wonder Woman being game breaking. As someone else mentioned, you might need to practice a little more hate drafting. It's a little rougher in Brave and the Bold (what I really wanted 2-Headed to be called), since you usually have multiple card types you want, but it's an important strategic component. Saying that Super-Villains are always available for purchase for WW doesn't really make her busted, since they're really expensive and she shouldn't be able to buy them every turn, unless it's late in the game already.
    Nathaniel Yamaguchi
    CZE Playtester & Designer

  7. #7
    Are you familiar with the name Nick Toth? 7th in Worlds for the WoW tcg this last year. Meaning he is good at strategy and card games. He also plays other deck building games like ascension like crazy. He never takes cards out or does stuff to tweak a games design, and he was one of the two of our group that was the first to have WW pulled out.

    Again, she can be beat and yes, someone can hate draft her. However, in the Brave and the Bold, you have a 50% chance to see any given card since it is 1 v 1. There are 30+ villains plus the 8 - 12 super villains. Thus she sees about 19 - 23 villains herself, and your opponent cannot hate every villain or else their deck will just suck and they will get no bonus from their Super Heroes which help to change the game into your favor. Lets assume they snag half of the villains they see, this leaves half they didnt snag on the board meaning that WW gets to see about 25 - 29 villains including super villains. This is enough, especially early in the game, to throw the game out of wack. Once WW starts, she is like the Juggernaut, plowing through the board and villain with much haste. Sure not every turn, but drawing 7 - 9 cards EoT sets up dumb turns, allows a greater chance to draw blocks, and allows more cards to help out ANY other Super Hero.

    If you do not believe us on this, test it out. Play it straight up a few times where your opponent legit grabs what they need and snags villains here and there. Then play it where they try to steal as much as they can. In the game where they try to "block" WW, your deck will be full of useless cards for your Hero Triggers, minus Two-face (helps trigger Lantern and Flash).

    Her team will be beat occasionally, and some games may even be closer than others. We have played a ton of games, and we found that she is over powered on an above average basis. Thus, making the matches unfun.

    Oh this is also thinking competitively, which nick and myself are for WoW Tcg. And the others in our group want to win all the time too. In a fun game between two people wanting to just have fun and dont care about the "best" picks in the line-up, then yea WW is just as good as anyother.

    Thanks for reading this! For real, i ranted a bit here and im sorry.

  8. #8
    *reads the rants on Wonder Woman*


    I still say Cyborg is the winner. In every game I've played that someone has had Cyborg (all games but 2), the person that had Cyborg won, because Powers+equipment=more than all other heroes needs and TWO powers nearly every turn!

  9. #9
    Sivartalappes i agree Cyborg is really good, prolly the best for 1 Super hero vs Another.

    The WW issue is for 2 heads or Brave and the bold as they wanted to call it. In 1 hero vs 1 hero, WW is just another hero about average.

    I challenge you and a friend who is good at picking the correct cards to test this out. have one of you auto be WW and randomly pick your second hero. Then have player 2 pick two heroes. Play a good number of matches (1 - 3 is not a good sample size here) You will see how good WW is in this format.

    I think we as a group with 2 heads have around 30 games with WW. Then we cut her.

  10. #10
    First, I think this game, like most DBGs, was mostly designed for multiplayer. I really don't see myself every playing this game 1v1. Don't get me wrong, I love this game, but there are other gaming options out there for anyone wanting to play 1v1.

    Second, I don't see why taking one card out really changes the dynamic of the game. How often does it really show up anyway? I played five games in a row with some friends of mine, and we saw Man of Steel once, maybe twice, if I recall.

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