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Thread: Primal packs question

  1. #51
    Rigid Buffalo
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    Well, you're at an impasse because other people here are disagreeing with you one what they find exciting.

    However, you notion of what quantifies significant is also not something that others are agreeing on. If I draft 7 times a week, win 0 packs and must purchase all of my packs, it's still less than 3 dollars difference. That's a very small amount of cash for a TCG. Moreover, if you buy in bulk, you'll eventually hit primals which you can just sell to recoup the difference.

  2. #52
    Seeing as drafts for boosters are bought directly from Crypto, usually, the restriction of draft boosters not being primals only really applies to those who get free drafts which generate 3 packs on the fly. This makes sense as you couldn't/shouldn't be able to bring a primal to a draft anyway and it keeps the Pro+ tier from being too excessively valuable, mostly the former than the latter I'd assume.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathfog View Post
    Seeing as drafts for boosters are bought directly from Crypto, usually, the restriction of draft boosters not being primals only really applies to those who get free drafts which generate 3 packs on the fly. This makes sense as you couldn't/shouldn't be able to bring a primal to a draft anyway and it keeps the Pro+ tier from being too excessively valuable, mostly the former than the latter I'd assume.
    I disagree that boosters are usually bought from CZ. On MTGO a lot of boosters come from draft prizes that are resold on the market. With an even better market, i would imagine that this will also be true for Hex.

  4. #54
    The thing that trips me up about this idea is that you say you want it for the 'effect'. If it's simply about effect, why can't that be done at the time of purchase? Is the fact you bought a booster and sat on it for a week the part that makes it exciting? I might see why some wouldn't like just being told they have 3 primals from the KS pile, but that's not necessarily a good reason to implement a different system. I just don't understand how this adds to an effect.

    There are no market dynamics.
    Bull. $1,000,000 has been spent on this game in KS. Just because the AH isn't running doesn't mean there isn't a market for boosters. And you're talking about a primal pack being a primal voucher AND a booster. You're talking about something that changes the value of cards on the AH. All I'm saying is that your idea is NOT purely graphical. It has a widespread impact on the market and value of the biggest commodity in the entire game. If your idea was purely graphical, I'd be all for having the option. I think one of the reasons that Hex is appealing is because of how cheap and easy it is to get in and play a draft at any time, day or night. Making that cost more money is a serious implication. 10% is a lot. Stop using dollars and cents to make it sound insignificant. If you have X amount of dollars to spend, losing 10% sucks. If a guy loses $3 because he played 7 games that week, it sounds like nothing. But if he plays that for 5 years, that's almost $800 disappearing into the ether.

  5. #55
    It's not just an effect.

    Having the primal packs rolled at the time the booster is generated increases the incentive to buy new packs, whereas having the primal packs rolled at the time the booster is opened increases the incentive to open old packs.

    Also, you seem to have completely skipped my recommendation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrfang View Post
    To clarify, my suggestion is currently:

    When you open a pack, you will see if you get a primal token immediately (before seeing any of the cards in the pack). If you are in a situation where you can immediately redeem the token, you can use it on the same pack, converting it into a primal pack.
    (i.e. Redeem now? - This will transform your current pack into a sealed Primal Pack!)
    This option would not be available during sealed/drafts.

    Conversely, you can save the token to transform a different booster into a primal.
    (i.e. Save for later? - you can use this token to transform a booster of the same set into a primal pack.)
    That said, the net added cost in the long run of both systems (to the player) is the same.
    If you win a primal pack from opening a booster, you can sell it back on the market to recoup the cost and then open up more packs.

    Edit: IMO, opening a booster to find it's a primal would entice F2P only players to buy more boosters (on the AH or from Cryptozoic) more than a system where you only get it at pack generation.

    Edit2: The reason I suggested converting the current pack into a Primal is to avoid a situation where a player "earns" a primal pack but can't actually open it without spending money.
    Last edited by Tyrfang; 05-22-2013 at 10:20 AM.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrfang View Post

    Having the primal packs rolled at the time the booster is generated increases the incentive to buy new packs,
    I would prefer this anyway as it encourages people to buy from Crypto over the AH and generating more sales for Crypto means more investment into the game down the road.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ShaolinRaven View Post
    I would prefer this anyway as it encourages people to buy from Crypto over the AH and generating more sales for Crypto means more investment into the game down the road.
    IMO, opening a booster to find it's a primal would entice F2P-only players to buy more boosters (on the AH or from Cryptozoic) more than a system where you only get it at pack generation. I feel it would increase the number of paying players in the long-run.

  8. #58
    I was against the token idea at first, because it seemed to make things simpler as it is right now, but I can see that I was wrong. The token system makes all packs equal, and makes the math simpler. Not just for players, but makes it easier for Cryptozoic to exactly determine how many rares/legendaries are out in the wild. It's a simply a percentage of packs. Without the token system, the number of packs doesn't equal to a relative number of rare/legendaries are out there in the wild since draft packs cannot be primal packs. If a draft format isn't popular, then there is a higher percent of rares per pack out in the wild. If a draft format is extremely popular, then that rare to pack ratio is greatly reduced. Depending on how often primal packs pop up, that could create significant changes to card prices.

    The primal token gives Cryptozoic better control of how many rares/legendary cards they want in the wild, so I'm all for it.

  9. #59
    The way I understood it there is a chance of a pack being a Primal when you purchase it, in my mind this meant that a normal pack and a primal pack have two different wrappers.

    So if I buy a pack from Crypto or win a pack in a dungeon or buy a pack from a vendor, that is the moment the pack comes in to existance, this pack might be created as a normal or primal.

    This way I can do two things, open it or sell it. So if it's a Primal I might want to sell it for a higher ammount on the AH.

    Also, we know that we can use any pack to Draft with apart from Primal (Regardless of where we go them, Crypo, KS or AH), so if we have two different packs this way we know which one is to be used during Drafts and which one to be saved for the AH.

    Another thing is, if the pack has a chance of being a Draft when we open it and we know that it is not going to be a primal pack during a Draft game than the chances of packs becoming Primal are segnifinatlely lower, meaning if you know that you'll get 10 Primals out of 100 packs and you decide to use 30 of them on Drafts then the theoretical 10 Primals just turned in to 7. That would suck in my opinion.
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  10. #60
    Tyrfang, you mean making a second kind of booster pack just for free drafters? Well because those packs have to be used anyways, it still wouldn't impact the cost of base boosters on the AH. They would only be impacting the value of the primals themselves, which is a different debate that means a lot less to drafting. I agree that it would be crazy to just throw more money at PP's though.

    Is there a reason for the incentive to be at consumption instead of purchase? Honest question. If it isn't just for effect, it's for market. I know the idea doesn't only change the effect, which is why I'm hesitant to support it. What's the value to the market, the player, etc. for the consumption to be the reward? The same number of packs will be produced either way, between winnings and storefront, all working at the same rarity. The only thing else different about your idea is that you get a free booster pack with your primal. Is it that you want the AH boosters to be a higher price, closer to the storefront value?

    Generating it at purchase leads to an increased value of buying at $2. Generating at opening leads to a value increase on AH boosters (like from draft winnings). If you can sort them first, the value of primals will be higher because people will be focusing on those packs to purchase. If you can't sort them first, the value of boosters is higher, and the value of primals is reduced slightly because people can buy cheaper boosters to take that same chance as the $2 storefront. With those two scenarios, I think lower price boosters would do better for the market in general. Lower booster prices on the AH would support more people drafting. They would know they aren't going to get a primal when they go to play a tournament, but people buying boosters or winning boosters would be getting a reveal.

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