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Thread: PvP Incentives?

  1. #11
    I'm personally mostly interested in PvP limited. But I like that fact that I can play a completely different game with the same cards via the PvE component. Variety is the spice of life!

  2. #12
    If you're talking about no-stakes matches, casual pvp might be a good title... at most there will be a gold reward (the same currency you get from pvp) but that would be horribly abusable. Surely you must be talking about no-stakes games, because in ones with prize support the prize support is the incentive...

    If there's any type of incentive for pvp matches that have no buy in or pay out, then what's to stop me from having a second account and just playing against myself with the fastest agro deck on the first account and just auto-pass-priority on the second?
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  3. #13
    I would assume any reward giving, no cost PvP would assign random matchs between players in the queue, making rigged games extremely difficult to initiate.

    The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.

  4. #14
    Incentives for PvP?

    .... Umm.... Fun...?

    Is that weird... That I bought the king tier specifically to play other people. The casual no stakes PvP will be a blast while I work up the courage, and have the time, to try some stakes games. People will do both, because sometimes people just want to play with what they have and not spend any money. Not to mention playing with guildies and friends.

    Seriously... If you need incentives to play the game maybe you don't really want to play the game?

    Maybe I'm just weird, but I always felt playing the game was the steak. Winning a prize is just the sizzle.

    Professional players are, of course, to some extent excluded from the above. I doubt however that the OP is a pro player...

  5. #15
    Master Theorycrafter
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    I'll be honest, I only played MTGO during the beta (I think that was when it was, was some time ago) so I don't know how their PvP system worked or how successful it was. The vast majority of my 20+ years of card gaming experience comes from playing real life hand made card games, where the vast majority of my games were played against friends with nothing at stake but pride. That said, I have played a handful of other line card games. I'm trying to remember them as its been a while as most have greatly disappointed me but I'll try to list a few because it was asked:

    Alteil - Haven't played it in years but I was one of the alpha and beta esters, and when the game first started out, the most consistent source of ingame currency (outside of spending real money) was from a single player mini-game, resulting in a large number of players (myself included quite often) only coming on, doing the single player portion, and leaving. This actually made things worse as soon only the best of the best, most obsessive and usually wealthy, players even consistently tried to find matches meaning whenever some hapless fool of a new player decided to go and PVP and the match maker inevitably failed to find some one near her skill level, and she found herself on the losing end of a very 1 sided face stomping. This game particularly broke my heart as I actually enjoyed the game play and art quite a bit, but as they PvP battlegrounds became more and more devoid but all but a small handful of card game gods, the long waits between matches and the inconsistent skill levels of my opponets (don't particularly enjoy beating up on new players or being rolled by vets) resulted in a dramatic decrease in my enjoyment. Later the game makers added things like "5 in 7" events where if you played at least 5 games within the week, you got some sort of prize of that week and were eligible for a larger prize. As I recall at the time, this seemed to dramatically boost PvP participation during those events, and consequentially, both my odds of getting similar skilled opponents, and just overall fun as I knew my games, win or lose, were working toward something. The only downside was you'd get the people who knew they lost but would be purposely stalling out to reach the minimum number of turns necessary to qualify as one of their "games played" but it was still a step in the right direction. Not sure where the game stands today, left largely because it was far too expensive as I invested well over a hundred dollars into the game and yet didn't get enough like themed cards to really build any new cohesive decks which was just absurd in my opinion, but I think they would have done a lot better if they'd had simply had the PvP incentives they added later from the get go as they lost a lot of players in the early going who never came back.

    Urban Rivals: I actually just did a search on this game and was shocked to find out this is still existing. Game play was terrible, card art was amateurish, and yet this is an example of how good PvP incentives can actually drive a card game as its probably the online tcg I spent the most time on as they would have daily tournaments. During these tournament periods, set at certain hours every day, you'd play random pvp matches as normal but every game counted toward a score and at the end depending on your ranking you'd be rewarded with an amount of the ingame currency. During tournament times this otherwise lame game was flooded with players of all skills levels and I routinely got as many games in as time allowed. During non-tournament times, the servers were ghost towns and the lack of depth to the game itself eventually caused me to leave, but the game's pvp incentives really drew me in to play.... if only during set hours of the day.

    Sword Girls: This game's PvP is so barren, if you wait long enough, the game actually puts you up against an AI just for your trouble (A feature i admittedly actually liked as the matches counted toward pvp quests and the ai opponents were almost always easier then the real human beings you were run into who would stomp you flat and never let you reach that quest win total) Not unlike Urban Rivals, this game's game play is also flat out terrible, but the fact it gives so many more rewards for pve always led me to stay away from the pvp unless a daily achievement or quest specifically requested I PvP and even then I always had my fingers crossed that I'd reach the AI. Admittedly, the gameplay in this game is so mindless, PvP wasn't all that different from PvE anyway, but by giving me more incentives to pve then pvp, they essentially stunted their pvp community.

    You're all free to disagree with me, and if it turns out I only play this game for its PvE while you're all playing PvP and having a blast, fantastic, everyone wins, though as of right now I'm a King level backer so I certainly hope that doesn't happen considering how much I've invested in PvP packs, but regardless, I'm just noting that I've seen other games have weak PvP largely because they did not start out with incentives to participate outside tournaments, and it snowballed into pretty bad situations. For whatever reason, online games aren't like in person, even in person I don't LIKE losing all the time, but I don't mind it as much when I'm losing to friends. When I'm constantly losing to strangers, and even more so if they're concluding there victory by telling me to shoot myself because I fail at life, not so much fun, and while not every online person is a jerk, playing a pvp match is in many ways like playing Russian roulette, you're opening yourself up to the possibility of a really negative experience and with out incentives it can be hard to justify that, especially when there are so many experiences to be had that are far more likely to be possible. Its even harder to make that leap when the pvp experience n question has an entrance fee like a draft or non-free entry tournament. But anyway, I really just wanted to check to make sure I hadn't simply missed it and there were some things in place to encourage PvP play outside of the prizes from winning in a pay to enter tournament or draft and I got my answer so nothing more to argue here, I'm certainly not going to remove my contribution over this.

  6. #16
    Hey, there is nothing wrong with sticking to PvE. I mean, that's why it exists, and I mean hell man I know people online can be total bastards with little to no provocation.

    It's just some people just feel adding more prizes to PvP or any kind of incentive isn't going to make elitist Jerk #4589 be any less of an elitist jerk when he wins.

    However even now friendly guilds are looking for people, whom you can PvP with in a friendly atmosphere. Sure clicking the challenge button in an online game carries the risk of the guy or gal at the other end of the connection being some troll, but that's kinda like any social interaction. You don't know if that guy at the bus stop is just a friendly person who will smile and say hello back or some pissed off asshole who is going to give you a finger or two for daring to make eye contact.

    I also don't think anyone was really arguing with you, as it seems most of the people answering were just talking amongst themselves. If i came off a little aggressive I'm sorry, I didn't mean to, I'm kinda dumb... and ramble a fair bit.

    Enjoy the game how you want, that's what your paying for anyways.

    Just remember not all of us are jerks though, some of us are just social incompetent... Like.. Ya know.. Me.

  7. #17
    Master Theorycrafter
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    A virtual cookie to anyone who actually reads through that huge wall of text above I ranted but just to note to one of the people who posted while I was typing up that big mess, no I don't consider myself a pro player, nor ever did. I did use to drive around the state to go to various card game tournaments, going multiple hour trips for bigger tournament, have participated in competitive tournaments with entree fees and prizes on the line for probably over 25 different types of card games, have won countless card tournaments (albeit most in a small handful of my card games of choice), won a decent share of money (more then I've invested in card games), made a decent amount of money selling cards on auctions, and even won one particularly large trophy. Oh, and though probably less impressive to all of you, but meant a lot to me, I also won what I believe was the last magic the gathering tournament ever held at my favorite card store prior to its closing. I've also wrote articles for multiple card game websites, one purely volunteer work, another which specifically contacted me and paid me to do so for them.

    But all that was a number of years ago, back when I was in high school and college and still living with my parents. And no matter which era of my life we look at, card games have always been just a hobby to me, albeit one my wife would argue borders on obsession at times but she enjoys card games too so whatever. I don't play card games to win prizes, I play card games to have fun. I've simply found in the online game space, most games have to work that much harder to make me have fun if I'm playing against real people, and that if they don't put in the effort to make me want do so, and ESPECIALLY if they give me fun options that don't force me to subject myself to pvp, I'll opt to go with those more sure thing fun options.

    Honestly, from these posts, I think maybe I've just been out of real brick and motor card games for too long and lost my way. I'm hopeful that's the case, cause I'd love to regain my love of playing against strangers just for the love of playing at all.

    Edit: Thanks for the kind words Kagin, I really appreciate it, and you bring up some good points, I think finding a good gaming group is important, I'm more accustomed to doing so offline and not online, so maybe thats the real adjustment I need to make on my end.
    Last edited by DanTheMeek; 05-18-2013 at 12:55 AM.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by DanTheMeek View Post
    Sword Girls: This game's PvP is so barren, if you wait long enough, the game actually puts you up against an AI just for your trouble (A feature i admittedly actually liked as the matches counted toward pvp quests and the ai opponents were almost always easier then the real human beings you were run into who would stomp you flat and never let you reach that quest win total) Not unlike Urban Rivals, this game's game play is also flat out terrible, but the fact it gives so many more rewards for pve always led me to stay away from the pvp unless a daily achievement or quest specifically requested I PvP and even then I always had my fingers crossed that I'd reach the AI. Admittedly, the gameplay in this game is so mindless, PvP wasn't all that different from PvE anyway, but by giving me more incentives to pve then pvp, they essentially stunted their pvp community.
    Sword Girls is a mixed bag. I really enjoyed the deck-building aspects of it, and the system itself has enough unique features that it's interesting to study how the system puts everything together. It's mostly just a time-sink though, with huge amounts of grinding to get the cards. Also, the AI is awful. I'm pretty sure that it just plays the first three cards it can afford each turn and ends at that, even if it ends up playing a bunch of spells that won't have any effect. The random combat was interesting, but also somewhat aggravating.

    All that being said, I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of the game, and I really liked exploring the dungeons and seeing what kind of design space they were using on their card effects. Hex looks like it'll take advantage of the digital medium better than Sword Girls did, but both games do a pretty good job of having card effects that wouldn't be possible with a paper card game. Sword Girls is completely free to play, so it might be worth taking a peek if anyone is curious about another take on the digital card game format.

  9. #19
    Gigantisaur
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    There will be access to kinda "Sit & Go" tourneys with packs rewards.

    There will be farming your way to World Championships for money.

    There will probably be a leaderboard for pride

    These are the incentives, be the best / get rewards.

    ~

  10. #20
    They made a omment that they will be doing vanity items for some PvP rewards to. (Example: unique deck sleeves)

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