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Thread: Capitalizing on digital: What is ok and what is not ok with us?

  1. #1

    Capitalizing on digital: What is ok and what is not ok with us?

    The digital format gives Crypt the chance to do things that other card games can't do . However, I'm curious which of the things they can do are things we're open to seeing? (Examples are not intended to be balanced, but merely to demonstrate concepts)

    Advanced/complex math: How would people feel if some of the numbers generated on a card required some pretty advanced/complex math? Advanced/complex could take two forms:

    1.) College track math might be considered advanced. Although some percentage of us would be able to understand it, few of us would be able to casually look at the math and know right off the bat what the exact answer would be.

    2.) Complex math would be math that uses simple techniques, but doing it in real life would take a little bit of time, such as calculating averages from a series of dozens of numbers, etc...

    History: How about using information from earlier in the game?

    For example: "If you were the first player in the game, draw a card. If you were not, take an extra turn after your next turn."

    Or: [i]"Players gain 1 life for every card that they've lost to the void this game."

    Real World Information: What I the deck turned to the real world and gathered information from the internet /your account to decide how a card works? These would likely be better for PvE cards...

    For example: [I]If played during fall or winter, exhaust 4 troops. If player during spring or summer, gain 1 life for each creature in play."

    Or: [I]All troops you control gain +1/+1. If the current world champion used an Orc Champion, gain +2/+1 instead."

    Thoughts? Other digital-only techniques you're wondering about?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by jgsugden View Post
    If played during fall or winter, exhaust 4 troops. If played during spring or summer, gain 1 life for each creature in play.
    I like this idea, and could easily see it being part of the game, most likely a PvE card.

    Any cards they do implement, I feel they would need to be balanced to affect any player equally.

    The possibilities are limitless, as long as it will be fun for the players and balanced.

  3. #3
    I dunno about that real-world information one, as that radically alters the value of a card based on factors completely beyond your control, which just isn't fun.
    Besides that, I'm pretty open to most things, as long as they avoid effects that succeed or fail based on a random number.

  4. #4
    Sensei of the Wounded Petal
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Ontario, Canada
    I'm also not sure about anything that gather's data from the outside world.

    It might be kinda neat if like 'snow-covered' land only worked in winter and would really effect the meta, and seasons last long enough that maybe this would work. Anything that is more like 'on tuesdays this is +2' is probably a little too fickle.

    Might be funny to have a Santa card that is more powerful at Christmas or something, but i dunno if it'd be useful.

    I think things like averages "X is the average power of creatures you control" work well digital but are too slow in RL.

    I think if you make decks to condition specific, like "if this has occurred at some point in the game." It's not unbalanced per-say but if it isn't done exactly right you end up with more potential for rock paper scissors in the meta game.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by jgsugden View Post
    For example: [I]If played during fall or winter, exhaust 4 troops. If player during spring or summer, gain 1 life for each creature in play."
    Cards with seasonal effects have been used before; there was a quest way back at wow tcg, with a christmas theme and an enhanced effect if used during December; I can see this happening at hex as a holiday promo for example

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  6. #6
    Can you give me an example of a card that would involve complex math? I'm not sure I understand that one, but the rest are all interesting ideas. Could be for "holiday" cards or something.
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  7. #7
    Yeah, cards that change in effect depending on the date certainly aren't unique to digital games.

    What do you mean by more complex/college track maths, though? Something like "This card does damage with a normal distribution, mean of 5, standard deviation 1.2."? That seems unnecessarily complicated...

  8. #8
    Opinions on using outside data
    I agree with the sentiments that cards based on gathering real-world data would likely be best used only in PvE. PvP is based around metagaming and a significant aspect of metagaming is that the cards remain known entities (find the thread that discussed nerfing vs. banning for further elaboration). Granted, this is slightly different in that the cards are printed with known (yet varying) effects, but it would seem incredibly arbitrary if there was a "best deck" that only exists if some condition outside the game is satisfied.

    However, I wholeheartedly support seeing entire dungeons with cards that morph based on the time of year, or that might be affected by the number of faction cards in winning tournament decks, or that are affected by the number of players that have lost to your keep. It could even be as simple as a dungeon that gets harder as the size of your collection increases (i.e. for every thousand cards you own, the enemy draws an extra card per turn). This might actually be a very interesting design space for different dungeons and PvE cards.

    Elaborating on complex math
    The first point of the OP probably refers to functions beyond what you would learn in algebra. For example, what if a troop had power calculated by a sine function, such that the attack value fluctuated vs. time, but might not necessarily be as straightforward as max on my turn, min on your turn. Or maybe a card that changes its effect based on which quadrant the solution to a polar equation falls in.

    The second point probably refers to simple calculations that are easy but become unwieldy if you have to do constantly. A good example posted in the thread already is a troop with attack equal to the average attack of all troops in your deck. Averages are easy, but imagine having to recalculate the attack value every time you drew a troop card.

    My opinions on complex math
    Regardless, I consider the design space for the first point to be minimal. I can't imagine many cards that use advanced functions that can't be reduced to simpler mechanics. At that point, advanced math would only serve to alienate the audience, even if they never actually had to solve any math to play the card. Then again, this is really just like the suggestions in the OP's other two major categories that have cards refer to outside information. In this case, the outside information is just a math function. I have nothing against this use of math, as long as the cards remain well designed.

    The second point is more manageable and I have really no arguments against it (or really any arguments for it). As long as the card is clear on what it does and it does not cloud the tactical game state with excessive numbers, I don't really see any major problems.
    Last edited by facade; 06-30-2013 at 11:20 AM. Reason: Added opinions on math

  9. #9
    I actually love the idea of seasons and holiday events/ cards in PVE. That very much fits with the MMO spirit they are trying to go for with the PVE side. Balance must be much more carefully weighed.

  10. #10
    I think with the pve side of things they can maybe try more weird things like this and simply watch and see what happens and how people use/don't use it and then can maybe implement similar but more balance versions into future pvp sets? The seasonal idea seems pretty neat though. I don't think anything should be outright denied though as ideas.

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