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Thread: An idea about PvE starter cards for new accounts.

  1. #1

    An idea about PvE starter cards for new accounts.

    My concern:

    CZE to my knowledge said any account will receive a starter with non-trade-able cards, so any player can play the PvE side without paying anything up front. That's a great idea, but I would suggest going a lot further then this.
    To me this wouldn't generate the most fun experience for a new player, they are "stuck" to this deck. I think a lot of fun goes into creating your own deck and experimenting with it. I fear a lot of players will become too frustrated too quickly, because they need to grind far too much or feel they need to spend money way too quickly to get away from the initial deck. Also psychologically speaking a new player will identify a lot more with a self-created deck, then one that's "forced" upon him and will find the experience a lot more satisfying.

    I would also like to add that I feel hex can become a very popular product, but a lot hinges on the F2P aspect of it. To me looking at League of Legends for this is not a bad idea. Where a player gets the feeling he can play the game first and pay for some cool/handy stuff later on. Unlike most digital card games I have seen where it's the opposite.

    I think giving new players more then a starter will make them interested in the game longer, which can have 2 positive effects for CZE. 1, More chances that this player will eventually pay money. 2, The player likes the game and tells about it to some friends, who try it and potentially spend money on it.

    My idea:

    Why not give new accounts a collection of cards. I was thinking like 100 different commons with 2 copies of those commons. They would be non-trade-able of course. 200 cards would give a nice pool to create a deck (unlike the starter deck that kinda locks out a not-yet paying player from one of the most fun aspects of a TCG: deck-building). And let's a player give a feel which shards he/she likes best (unlike the starter deck that forces you to certain shards). Also 2 copies incentives them to search for 2 more if they like a particular card. I don't think giving a couple of commons more will cost CZE a substantial amount, nor do I see any immediate ways too abuse this option (correct me if I'm wrong, and we might find an even greater idea).

    The only negative side I see, is that a player new to TCG's might feel overwhelmed creating a deck on his own. I would propose CZE creates 10 decks from this cardpool (that's 1 for each combination of 2 shards) and asks a player who wants a deck generated for him: "Hey, which 2 shards would you like to play with". And boom a pre-made deck is made for the new player.
    Another solution can also be to include the original starter CZE had in mind, just to showcase a fully-functioning deck (but we lack information about how well synergized this deck will be).

    In conclusion:

    Lastly I want to make two more points.

    1, It's an attempt to generate a discussion that might help CZE with a better way to keep the interest of new players and give them a more fun experience. The 100 commons twice idea is my initial suggestion, but I'm sure other and better ideas can be thought off. Still I do feel a basic starter deck will limit a new players experience too much and could seriously hamper the success of hex.

    2. Let's also keep in mind that we (you and I on the forum) are not the target audience these concerns are about. Most of us have already invested a great deal in this game and will not come across this problem. We are a minority and most of us can easily afford to spend some money on a game. So you have to approach this from another (kind of, possibly poorer) player's perspective, not your own .
    Last edited by lordjuzam; 06-26-2013 at 06:29 AM.

  2. #2
    A new player may not yet have the deckbuilding ability. A starter deck is a way to make sure that a new player has a balanced deck. Maybe they could give the starter deck with some side commons so they have the option of swapping out cards. The starter deck is a good foundation to build on.

  3. #3
    I think this will play out much like how a traditional MMO plays out. You start if with one ability then as you progress you gain abilities, learn skills and gather gold. With that gold you can buy better items, so as you progress everything gets better.

    I like the idea of starting out with very little, working towards something great. I don't think those who are really into TCG's are really that interested in the PVE side, and these people are the ones with the deck building experience while someone who is an avid MMO player will enjoy working there way up, and learning how to build a deck. Great transition I think.

  4. #4
    PVE is designed to keep giving the player cards to be used in their decks. There's also going to be a lot of cheap commons and uncommons floating around from all the booster packs everyone else is getting, and they'll probably be tradeable for not too much gold. Assuming both of those function decently, I don't see a need for this suggestion. All you're doing is giving the players a free head start that makes the early PvE rewards much less significant.

  5. #5
    Master Theorycrafter
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    I think this is just as easily handled by making the early town / dungeons / quests provide a steady stream of commons. This introduces them thematically and gradually as opposed to getting them all up front. For people new to TCG's the story can prompt them to start deck building, i.e recruit 4 village militia and add them to your deck before fighting the pack of wolves.

  6. #6
    You are assuming that the PvE will start out grindy. If the gameplay is interesting and fun for the players and not too grindy they will get usually get hooked anyway.

    From my understanding they aren't forced into "1 deck" either, but get to choose from a couple? Kind of choosing between a blood, wild, ruby, sapphire or diamond deck? You will also get to pick a class for the PvE so you get even more choice right from the start (now that I think of it I'm pretty certain you get to choose between decks at start, otherwise everyone would play the exact same thing).

    This resembles the start of most modern progression-based games. You start out with a few choices (class + race in most MMORPGs) and then you grow your options with additional spells and talents and items and other stuff, just as the PvE experience in Hex most likely will give you additional champions, cards and talent points.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Unhurtable View Post
    You are assuming that the PvE will start out grindy. If the gameplay is interesting and fun for the players and not too grindy they will get usually get hooked anyway.

    From my understanding they aren't forced into "1 deck" either, but get to choose from a couple? Kind of choosing between a blood, wild, ruby, sapphire or diamond deck? You will also get to pick a class for the PvE so you get even more choice right from the start (now that I think of it I'm pretty certain you get to choose between decks at start, otherwise everyone would play the exact same thing).

    This resembles the start of most modern progression-based games. You start out with a few choices (class + race in most MMORPGs) and then you grow your options with additional spells and talents and items and other stuff, just as the PvE experience in Hex most likely will give you additional champions, cards and talent points.
    Yeah I hope there will be more then 1 starter deck, but it's hard to choose a shard when having no knowledge on the game yet. What if a player chooses Ruby, but finds out 2-3 hours in he prefers the play-style of sapphire. Unless you mean they get multiple starters.

    All in all I agree, if CZE implements the start of the game well and gives enough rewards that a pve player can assemble his own deck quite quickly, that would also be satisfying. Sadly most f2p games I have played are a bit too stingy when it comes to that. So yeah I assumed the beginning would be quite grindy, I hope I'm wrong. But we don't know this yet.

    Perhaps this is my biggest concern, that the pve aspect start out too slow/ rewards too stingy. And I want to avoid that from happening at all costs, cause I think it will keep Hex from truly breaking out if they fall into that pitfall.

  8. #8
    Master Theorycrafter
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    When you sign up you pick 1 starter deck, but that is a PVP deck I don't think it can be changed later. I thought that when you start a new PvE character it would come with a basic PVE starter deck, but I could be wrong on that, I can't find a source.

  9. #9
    I feel the key thing to remember is that PvE will be a type of RPG, and in many RPGs you start with very basic 'equipment', so the basic starter deck in Hex would be the starting gear. As you progress through the quests you will gain access to better equipment, cards in Hex, that is a part of the RPG experience.

    The starter deck you begin with, you receive when you start a new account and will be non-tradeable PvP cards. This system allows new accounts to jump instantly into either PvP or PvE. The non-tradeable cards stop people from making new accounts just for the cards, to break down into materials or some other reason, and stop people from accidentally trading down to less then 60 cards.

    To those who worry about the F2P aspect, Hex PvE will essentially be an entire game for free, CZE is hedging their bets that people will enjoy Hex so much they will want to buy things with Platinum. The only things we know you will be able to buy from hex with platinum is PvP boosters and PvP Starter Decks.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Avaian View Post
    I feel the key thing to remember is that PvE will be a type of RPG, and in many RPGs you start with very basic 'equipment', so the basic starter deck in Hex would be the starting gear. As you progress through the quests you will gain access to better equipment, cards in Hex, that is a part of the RPG experience.

    The starter deck you begin with, you receive when you start a new account and will be non-tradeable PvP cards. This system allows new accounts to jump instantly into either PvP or PvE. The non-tradeable cards stop people from making new accounts just for the cards, to break down into materials or some other reason, and stop people from accidentally trading down to less then 60 cards.

    To those who worry about the F2P aspect, Hex PvE will essentially be an entire game for free, CZE is hedging their bets that people will enjoy Hex so much they will want to buy things with Platinum. The only things we know you will be able to buy from hex with platinum is PvP boosters and PvP Starter Decks.
    This. And when you make your account you get 1 free starter deck that cannot have its cards traded (can be used in PvP).

    If you get to select the deck, or if its a predetermined starter has not been cleared yet. However if it is to choose one, it will be to choose 1 of the decks. You can buy others for $10 (these can be traded). Each deck in set 1 that can be purchased (and maybe chosen at start) will be mono colored [confirmed in a Twitch stream].

    PvE will be free to play, and the primary way to obtain PvE cards. It will start off slow, as any RPG. You may want to run the same dungeon a few times to get more of the cards you want. However the farther in a dungeon you go the better your rewards.

    Basically you do not get 2 free starter decks (1 pvp and 1 pve) it is just 1. That will be the same basically.
    Hex is a MMO-TCG
    *** There is 3 very important letters in this game's genre.
    Hex - Collector Tier Kickstarter Backer
    In-Game name: Ashmander

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