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Thread: HEX Alpha Patch Notes - 815

  1. #281
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    Feedback on v815

    My feedback differs slightly;

    Speed
    The change speeds up the game considerably in many situations. I have a stupid deck that riffs off of the combination of Adamanthium Scrivener, Wretched Brood, Righteous Paladin, Blood Bearer, Necessary Sacrifice, Boltpaw Wizard, Blood Cauldron Ritualist and Shin'hare Eulogist. The streamlining that this patch introduced to this kind of deck is outstanding. Games transpire much more quickly and that's good. I've also played multiple games since the patch. Overall the improvement is noticeable and considerable. I dislike the trigger "shake" and would prefer a more meaningful mechanic / construct in time (eg. a Red Cross health symbol rises out of a card that's adding health).

    Intentions
    CZE originally stated in the KS that they intend to take advantage of the digital space. I believe that this change is implemented because of limitations in the digital space. Thus it is a compromise of sorts. I don't want the CZE team to EVER compromise on the quality of their vision simply because the implementation of a specific mechanic is limiting. In an ideal world another solution would be found...

    Timing
    While I hope that CZE have the best of intentions there are multiple games looming in this "category". Without a timely release Hex's success may be severely curtailed or even completely eliminated in the shuffle. Making games is hard. Perhaps a compromise is necessary to get the beast wrangled and productive.

    Realism
    I find it disingenuous to request that we test a mechanical change to the game while saying that there are only two instances of specific actions that were affected by the change. Shaqattaq, if this is true, then there's little to test. Perhaps it would be better to release those examples and put it to a vote, it would certainly be easier to grasp, review and respond to. This reminds me of the political ploy of announcing an unpopular policy at the beginning of a government's term in office in the hopes that the constituents will have forgotten how upset they were by the time the next election is called. Framing messages is important. If you want me to evaluate my preferences for aspects of a game then I should have access to multiple instances of those aspects (both before and after the change). Unless the goal is to evaluate the speed of the change.

    Strategy?
    I dislike the removal of triggered abilities from the stack where they can be countered or responded to. I would prefer that all abilities go onto the stack so that I have as much control as possible. However, I really empathised with some of what Vorpal said. If neither player can see what is targeted by either card when playing a Wild Growth in response to a Sniper of Gawaine I believe this would be interesting at its worst and incredibly liberating / empowering at its best. This shifts the game much more towards a poker style of play where with two cards hidden and the remainder in view of all, it's what choices one makes that can direct thought and create opportunities. There's a real chance to bluff and confuse. I would like to test this... This kind of construct matches more closely with cards spoiled but not yet implemented; Head Games and Alabaster Sphinx, it therefore suggests an internal consistency with the vision represented by some cards.

    Same, same
    This change would bring Hex closer to other digital games of this type. Others have used Sol Forge and Hearthstone as examples. For this reason alone I believe it is undesirable. Hex was backed by me for its complexity, please maintain that as much as possible, a comprehensive tutorial and multiple game modes will allow "noobs" to grow at their own pace.

    My wish aka tl;dr
    CZE could you please review this in light of your original vision. I've backed the KS because it was that vision that appealed to me. I don't want you to compromise on time, quality or popularity. EVER. That vision was what made the KS so successful. That vision is what will make this construct a juggernaut.

    Context
    I'm an example of the basic consumer. No tournament wins or world firsts. I'm here because I love the vision and I want it to be made because I want to play it. I'm not looking to leverage my standing in anyway with anyone for any reason. I am also capable of contradicting myself, intentionally!

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqattaq View Post
    PATCH NOTES
    -Triggered abilities no longer use the chain. We would love to have your feedback on this change!
    After being reluctant, I actually like this change. The gameplay speed as definitely improved and even playing a control deck there are plenty of opportunities to respond when necessary. Is it ideal? Not necessarily. But new players won't understand the idea of a pass priority until end of turn option either. I was really not in favor at first, but having actually played it I think it's a good change.

    Edit: Although, I am not sure the "triggered abilities" part is currently consistent. I could be wrong.
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  3. #283
    Love the change, here's why. If a triggered ability doesn't affect anything on the board, or the opposing player, why not just have it go off without them needing to ok it? When a triggered ability targets something, then yea have priority pop up, but if it's a card being drawn, life gained, resources/thresholds added from the card's trigger, who cares? Chances are that if you didn't bother to respond to the creature coming in; why would you respond to it's trigger in those latter instances I mentioned? Also if you have no resources, can't play any cards and have nothing on the board that can tap for an ability, just make the game skip past that player's priority.
    Proud Day 1 Alpha Player Man This Game Come A Long Way!

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by bladedragonfire View Post
    Also if you have no resources, can't play any cards and have nothing on the board that can tap for an ability, just make the game skip past that player's priority.
    Sweet, why don't I just play with my hand face up while I'm at it.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Malakili View Post
    Sweet, why don't I just play with my hand face up while I'm at it.
    Snarky-ness aside... I think this is a good point. Truly though, there are cards that can cast for free (wild card that buffs, name slips my mind) after being cast and shuffled back into the deck. So the zero-resources-skip can't be an option.
    | Pro Player Backer | Slacker Backer |


  6. #286
    Sorry I should have been more clear there. By can't play any cards I should have said, no cards in hand. All those conditions need to be filled for it to autopass. I'm talking very specific instances where it's completely obvious the other player has zero ability to make a play and that it's obvious to both players just from the given information on the board.
    Last edited by bladedragonfire; 11-17-2013 at 03:16 PM.
    Proud Day 1 Alpha Player Man This Game Come A Long Way!

  7. #287
    The problem is that the scenario you describe means the player also has no zero cost cards in their hand, but they COULD, which means that letting the opponent know that they don't automatically robs the player of the ability to bluff.
    --ossuary

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  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by ossuary View Post
    The problem is that the scenario you describe means the player also has no zero cost cards in their hand, but they COULD, which means that letting the opponent know that they don't automatically robs the player of the ability to bluff.
    Well, then you have to take into consideration cards in play that can allow you to draw a card too. I think a player-based pass priority is better than one that's automated.
    | Pro Player Backer | Slacker Backer |


  9. #289
    Bluffing is not more important than being able to respond to triggered abilities in my opinion, if they had to make the game play faster for new players today, they need to just make it auto pass anytime you can't respond, and then make it optional later. That would make the game faster than even this current change does, and not take away the ability to respond to triggered effects if you have a response.
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  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by McKizz View Post
    EDIT: I guess not, because Wild Root Dancer did not use the stack when my enemy chose his creature.
    Wild Root Dancer's ability doesn't use the stack because it triggers when you play a resource and playing a resource has never gone into the stack. I haven't seen many of the people worried about this change demanding that playing resources needs to go into the stack, but logically for consistency they should.

    I think that's the example that shows the concern here is kinda overblown. It's the exact scenario everyone's frightened about -- a creature buff you can't respond to before it resolves, since it doesn't go into the stack -- and it's powerful sure but it's not game-breaking at all.

    The argument that it limits the design space has a little more merit but at the moment it doesn't seem to actually matter that much for any actual cards we're playing with. I'm sure if it becomes a huge issue in future they can always revert it back.

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