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Thread: Releasing without PvE, change of plans needs more adjustments

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by MuffLord4 View Post
    Also as a backer I want to see this game thrive, hell, if they gave freebie players a starter deck I'd say sure, why not. I paid for this game mainly because I wanted it to succeed, the rewards were a nice bonus.
    Same here. 100% agree.

  2. #42
    All of the free players do get a PVP starter deck.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendakor View Post
    All of the free players do get a PVP starter deck.
    I don't care as long as they play, I'd only be kinda pissed if they got as much stuff as I'd get. But I'm being realistic. A casual who'll get the 100s of boosters I'm getting with my backer? Well he has to play ALOT for that and most people wouldn't play that much. In other words they'd never catch up and never devalue my cards anyways.

    The only problem i see is bots, which is why soulbound would be the best idea imo.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by MuffLord4 View Post
    Also as a backer I want to see this game thrive, hell, if they gave freebie players a starter deck I'd say sure, why not. I paid for this game mainly because I wanted it to succeed, the rewards were a nice bonus.
    That is exactly what every player gets when they first create a free account... a starter deck.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Svenn View Post
    That is exactly what every player gets when they first create a free account... a starter deck.
    I was just trying to get my point across, of course they get a deck how else would they start out..

  6. #46
    HEX Employee Chark's Avatar
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    Hey guys,

    Going to address a few things in this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoss View Post
    However, giving a tiny bit of Gold for each PVP game would be cool. (I know they're going to do this during Beta, I just think it would be good to continue it at a lower level forever.)
    There are a large number of assumptions in the above statement. I guess that'll teach me to share information that isn't precise. There are no plans to give "a tiny bit of Gold for each PVP game" during beta or otherwise.

    There will be some PvP activities that will temporarily reward you with gold in beta. This will likely be limited to tournament participation.

    Quote Originally Posted by MuffLord4 View Post
    That's why boosters in hearthstone are being handed out for gold, because even after playing for years you wont have everything. It's a carrot on a stick.
    This works because Hearthstone does not allow trading. You can't aggregate all of the free boosters/gold from multiple accounts into one.

    Quote Originally Posted by MuffLord4 View Post
    I just hate the idea of doing PvP and getting nothing off of it.
    I am not sure why you think that doing PvP gets you nothing. Tournaments have prizes. Doing well in tournaments gets you booster packs that you can sell for platinum to get anything else you want in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by MuffLord4 View Post
    Just balance it so people feel like they get something for free but paying is much more worth it. It's not THAT hard to do.
    It's actually much harder then it sounds. Primarily because we are dealing with a very wide range of people and the value they place on their time. It's easier to balance when there is no trading involved and you can only accumulate value through time you spend in game (ala LoL or HS). It's harder to balance when you are able to trade what you accumulated to others (D3 or WoW).

    Quote Originally Posted by MuffLord4 View Post
    I realise your concerns about flooding the market, I thought of it as a very valid argument and was like "hm yeah..how to change that?"

    Then I logged into infinity wars and wanted to check on how they would prevent that.

    All my cards are basically locked, I cannot trade these and flood the market with my free booster cards.

    I just bought a booster.

    The boostercards can be traded.

    Why not do the same thing? It prevents flooded markets and eliminates farmers.

    They could introduce Gold-Boosters which would be bound to account and Platinum boosters which would be tradable cards.
    We are not interested in creating account bound boosters for a couple of reasons: 1) This is a Trading Card Game. We want your collection to have value and in order for that it needs to be liquid. 2) The planned economy is fairly complex. If boosters -> cards was the only interaction, it would be reasonable to create account bound boosters and account bind their derivatives (cards). That's not the case for Hex.

    Quote Originally Posted by MuffLord4 View Post
    Is there any info on what we will be able to spend gold on? Too lazy to look :P
    The AH will allow any item sellable for plat to be sellable for gold. So in theory you can spend gold on anything that you could buy in game with plat. Of course in practice you would need at least one counter-party to offer a specific item for gold in order for you to buy it.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Chark View Post
    We are not interested in creating account bound boosters for a couple of reasons: 1) This is a Trading Card Game. We want your collection to have value and in order for that it needs to be liquid. 2) The planned economy is fairly complex. If boosters -> cards was the only interaction, it would be reasonable to create account bound boosters and account bind their derivatives (cards). That's not the case for Hex.
    Just because this is a Trading Card Game doesn't mean that everything has to be tradeable. (See MTGO's untradeable Planeswalker format cards.) I agree that we want our collections to have value, but that doesn't mean that every card needs to have value (I don't expect much from my commons, for example.)

    My concern is that without the PvE, you're missing the hook that gets new players to decide that it's worth sinking money in the game. What does the new player get for $10? The free starter and one draft. Now look at what MTGO offers for $10.

    - 650 cards. That's a lot more to start with than a single starter, and lets you start deckbuilding immediately. Why not give away more cards to start? You're not devaluing anything, since commons and most uncommons won't be worth anything anyway.
    - 20 new player tickets and 5 event tickets. That's good for 5 free new player sealed/draft events and 15 more for $1 each.

    Eventually, Hex can compete with this with the free PvE hook. You get your free account and go through the PvE, learning and experiencing the game that way. But since that won't be available for a while, you need something to replace it. You need the equivalent of MTGO's 20 sealeds/drafts and several hundred cards for $25. Without it, you're not going to attract the players you need to grow the playerbase much beyond the backers.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by mach View Post
    Just because this is a Trading Card Game doesn't mean that everything has to be tradeable. (See MTGO's untradeable Planeswalker format cards.) I agree that we want our collections to have value, but that doesn't mean that every card needs to have value (I don't expect much from my commons, for example.)
    After the 180 on merc trading, I dount they will ever make anything that can impact gameplay in any way account bound (barring the KS perks, which were always designed to be stuck to an account.) So asking them to make account bound cards is rather problematic, because they are inherently going to affect someones gameplay.

    Besides, why would you want to make cards soulbound? Someone pulls a legendary diamond card, but exclusively plays blood/ruby and sometimes wild, and has no diamond cards to use with that legendary - they can't trade it, so they just wasted a slot in their free boosters - thats a waste of their time and effort. Having grinded in WoW dungeons for MONTHS, I know just how much it sucks to have that plate shoulders drop for my priest for the upteenth time. That isn't fun or compelling. So I think PvE will serve up lots of non-soulbound goodies that can be used as a commodity for trading, selling, etc.

    That way players can control what they get, and anything they don't want, they can exchange. It's the beauty of trading cards.
    Xenavire, proud guild leader for The Lions Share.
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  9. #49
    HEX Employee Chark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach View Post
    Just because this is a Trading Card Game doesn't mean that everything has to be tradeable. (See MTGO's untradeable Planeswalker format cards.) I agree that we want our collections to have value, but that doesn't mean that every card needs to have value (I don't expect much from my commons, for example.)
    Agreed. Disagreed that we should create a new booster pack type that is account bound that we would give out for PvP activities.

    Quote Originally Posted by mach View Post
    My concern is that without the PvE, you're missing the hook that gets new players to decide that it's worth sinking money in the game. What does the new player get for $10? The free starter and one draft. Now look at what MTGO offers for $10.

    - 650 cards. That's a lot more to start with than a single starter, and lets you start deckbuilding immediately. Why not give away more cards to start? You're not devaluing anything, since commons and most uncommons won't be worth anything anyway.

    - 20 new player tickets and 5 event tickets. That's good for 5 free new player sealed/draft events and 15 more for $1 each.
    It's been a while since I've looked at the new player package MTGO offers, but I am pretty sure that of those 650 cards, at least some (250?) are basic lands. New player sealed/drafts offer very little in prizes and are phantom (you don't get to keep the cards you opened). The value for 10 dollars isn't as good as what you make it out to be. But I get your point: I'll take a look at our new player onboarding package.

    Quote Originally Posted by mach View Post
    Eventually, Hex can compete with this with the free PvE hook. You get your free account and go through the PvE, learning and experiencing the game that way. But since that won't be available for a while, you need something to replace it. You need the equivalent of MTGO's 20 sealeds/drafts and several hundred cards for $25. Without it, you're not going to attract the players you need to grow the playerbase much beyond the backers.
    Yup, we're aware of this, but I disagree that we need the equivalent of MTGO's 20 sealed/drafts for new players. That's a bit of an exaggeration.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenavire View Post
    After the 180 on merc trading, I dount they will ever make anything that can impact gameplay in any way account bound (barring the KS perks, which were always designed to be stuck to an account.) So asking them to make account bound cards is rather problematic, because they are inherently going to affect someones gameplay.
    The problem with account-bound mercs is that they weren't available elsewhere. I don't see a problem with an account-bound version of a card, as long as there's also a normal tradable version available the normal way.

    Besides, why would you want to make cards soulbound?
    I don't. I'm just willing to accept it if it's necessary to establish a proper new-player hook. There are other ways. Personally I'd prefer phantom sealed/draft events, but I understand they don't want to do them either.

    My main point is that there needs to be the new-player hook. PvE will do the job when it gets implemented. Before then I'm unsure of the best way. Got any ideas?

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