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Thread: (Another) Idea For Fixing the Resource Problem

  1. #41
    Something I've been thinking about that might help out the flood/screw "problem" is a change of the charge powers.

    So the easiest way to deal with shard screw is to just run more shards. The problem with that, however, is you increase your chance of shard flood. If you're flooded, you're drawing shards with no real way to use them, making your draws pretty much worthless. I'm fairly certain CZE has said somewhere that the point of charge powers was to encourage running more shards, as the powers helped make drawing extra shards less worthless. However, I don't think they do that job particularly well.

    The main problem I think the charge powers have is that a lot of them are essentially one-shots, they're "on-curve," and they're not that powerful. This is a problem because if you can only really use them once, and they activate when you're already playing on-curve, they aren't really helping mitigate flood. They give a nice boost when you're already doing fine shard-wise, but if the game drags on long enough to get enough shards to activate them a second time, you'd probably have wanted real cards instead.

    Take Pocca for example. Used to be her charge power took only 3 charges to work. This meant it was feasible to pull her off twice in a game, which was pretty great for mono-ruby. 6 shards seems pretty flooded for mono-ruby, and getting that extra 3/1 with speed helps compensate for drawing all those extra shards. However, at 4 charges, you now need to have drawn and played 8 shards to activate it twice, meaning you'd have to have gone at least 8 turns. Now if mono-ruby hasn't won, or isn't about to win, after 8 turns, I doubt that the extra blaze elemental is going to make a huge difference. And that I think is the problem with charge powers: they're good, but most of them aren't good enough to warrant wanting to get to the point where you can use them again, given that it means getting flooded, meaning you're drawing shards instead of more useful cards. And because you don't want to risk getting flooded because the charge powers aren't good enough to bear that risk, there really isn't an incentive to run more shards than is absolutely necessary to help stay on curve.

    I think charge powers should be either more like cheap 2-cost supports (like Gozzog, Nin, and Dimmid are) or 6+ cost "bomb" powers that can either bring you back in the game or seal the deal. I think these models better encourage the goal of erring on more shards than less. With the low-cost powers for deck support (Gozzog and Nin illustrate this perfectly), getting the occasional flood stings less as at least you're doing something with your shard draws. With high-cost bomb powers, flooding helps build to a game-changer and actually puts some pressure on your opponent instead of just being dead turns for you.

    TL;DR- The charge powers are a really awesome part of the game, and definitely help give Hex a unique flavor, but honestly I think they don't do what they're supposed too (mitigate flooding) particularly well. For the most part they just augment whatever you're doing when you're on-curve, and generally cost too much for what you get when you're flooded. I think having more low-cost support powers like Gozzog or Nin, or high-cost game-changers would help make them more useful for when you get flooded, and better encourage adding more shards in your deck, which in turn mitigates screw.

    Sorry if this isn't completely coherent.
    Keep name is Essq

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawlschool View Post
    TL;DR- The charge powers are a really awesome part of the game, and definitely help give Hex a unique flavor, but honestly I think they don't do what they're supposed too (mitigate flooding) particularly well. For the most part they just augment whatever you're doing when you're on-curve, and generally cost too much for what you get when you're flooded. I think having more low-cost support powers like Gozzog or Nin, or high-cost game-changers would help make them more useful for when you get flooded, and better encourage adding more shards in your deck, which in turn mitigates screw.

    Sorry if this isn't completely coherent.
    Now this is a great idea. Although I have to say I kinda saw where they were coming from with the poca nerf. I would've liked to play with it at 3 charges for a bit, but I understand the nerf. More support shards would be good, but then a question I have is... Whats a support charge ability? I've got some ideas:

    Sapphire: 2charge (temporary till opp your next turn or perm) -1/0 to target troop
    Ruby: 2charge +1/0 (might be too good, so make temp)
    wild: 3/4 charges gain 1/0 resources(could be ruby also)
    Diamond: 3 charges Target card can't ready next turn
    Blood: 3/4 charge: all players discard a card

    In case you guys can't tell I just adapted the +1 abilities from popular mtg planeswalkers. I like the idea of promoting charge powers to be more impactful in a game, but at a lower powerlevel so they can be used more. I worry though that creating these support champions may introduce some imbalances. We've already seen how powerful Champs like Betram can be in the right decks.

  3. #43
    Dack, you seem to have the general idea of what I mean by "support" charge. In my mind it's just a charge power that isn't particularly powerful, but helps further a deck's objective while flooded by giving you a semi-consistent ability to play. Nin is probably the best example right now, as she lets mill decks keep milling even while flooded. Drawing two shards when you don't need them sucks, but if you have a decent 2 cost charge power you can at least do something.

    The problem I'm having with the 3+ cost powers is a lot of times they're just sort of an inevitable and predictable power you play on curve, and maybe use a second time if the game draws on long enough. They're an awesome addition to the game, but I don't think they go far enough in combating shard flood. I think it'd be great if they were tweaked to make drawing shards mid to late game something that actually got you excited (or at least not just sigh and shake your head) because it meant you could activate your charge power.
    Keep name is Essq

  4. #44
    Just a small comment on the sprites. The current description does more than just fixing a possible screw, it also ramps. All ideas (as bad or good as they are) for fixing screw that involves a simple ramp are essentially not good. If you really want to fix screw, you find a way to get more resources in the player's hand, forcing him to still play on curve with his resources. Drawing said resources from the deck also removes some possible mana flood.

    So to "fix" the sprite idea, a better approach would be to sacrifice: fetch basic resource from deck with corresponding threshold color.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrigan View Post
    Just a small comment on the sprites. The current description does more than just fixing a possible screw, it also ramps. All ideas (as bad or good as they are) for fixing screw that involves a simple ramp are essentially not good. If you really want to fix screw, you find a way to get more resources in the player's hand, forcing him to still play on curve with his resources. Drawing said resources from the deck also removes some possible mana flood.

    So to "fix" the sprite idea, a better approach would be to sacrifice: fetch basic resource from deck with corresponding threshold color.
    Yeah now that sounds like a cool 4 off. Seems like more of a manafixer, but I could see it being a solution to mana flood, since you dont have to sac it when you already have resources.

    Oh also I think with the sprite idea he was just saying in general he thinks there's a way to solve the screw/flood without affecting the core game. I don't think he was pushing that excact idea

  6. #46
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    I like lawlschool's idea better than any other for dealing with this issue. I still have reservations, though, because as more sets are released there will be more ways to manafix and this will be less of a problem in constructed play and somewhat less in limited. The ideal for me is the charge powers getting a final lock-in pre-closed beta and then never having to change because of future balance issues.

    But, yeah, this is the first idea along these lines that I feel I could potentially support in some way.

    Okay, back to Titanfall! (shit, or maybe bed.... sigh, don't know).

  7. #47
    I do agree that lawlschool's idea is the best way I've read yet. I do think that the PvP champions could in general use a buff, especially the ones that aren't played frequently (which, not coincidentally, tend to be the ones with expensive powers).

    That being said, I do think that we're going to eventually get stronger champions through power creep. They may be intentionally setting the bar low so that they can design more powerful versions of the ones that turn out to be underpowered and they won't need to touch the most powerful ones. Having powers that you can access with resources alone is a major change from MTG, and it's quite easy to make them too powerful.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilo24 View Post
    I do agree that lawlschool's idea is the best way I've read yet. I do think that the PvP champions could in general use a buff, especially the ones that aren't played frequently (which, not coincidentally, tend to be the ones with expensive powers).
    To me, in PvP at least, champions in general just seem awkward and out of place, at least in the current state of the game. I'd rather just not even have them in PvP games.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrawn View Post
    To me, in PvP at least, champions in general just seem awkward and out of place, at least in the current state of the game. I'd rather just not even have them in PvP games.
    I could agree with this for certain champs, but some fit in seamlessly. Battle hoppers and dwarves, and the lifesteal are both good examples. The diamond ones are a little more jarring (especially when wild gets the 5 life one and diamond only gets lifedrain. Strange.) I think Poca is good but feels weird, and Flynn is great but expensive.
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  10. #50
    See I really think champs need to stay in HEX. The 2 thing making HEX not jsut a magic clone are Champs and resources(barely).

    I like the champs for flavor and agree that they should be pushed more

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