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Thread: Hex sued by MTG

  1. #341
    WoTC won't win this, simply because Hex has enough alterations and innovations to be consider it's own unique product in a way that cannot be replicated by MTG. You can insert bits and pieces of Hex IN MTG... that is also true to most TCG's, but you CANNOT insert the whole game. That is key.

    What bothers me more and the most is the attitude of the community, in a way that we are harming our own community and environment. By portraying Hex in a poor light to the outside world and media in a way to let it be branded as a ''clone'' and ourselves as ''fanboys''.

    Please understand this and have a lick of consciousness of what you post. Right now HEX is in evidence for a bad reason, what we do or say matters on how the game gets known going forward. You might think this is not important, but for Hex in it's current stage it is the MOST IMPORTANT thing we as a community can do...

    3-4 years down the line, we want new players to come in because tey heard that Hex is pretty fun and unique and well designed not because ''Oh isn't that game that got sued for being a MTG clone?'' that HAPPENS. Social branding is a thing. and it's much more reliant on how WE handle the news than the news itself.

    Pay mind to what you do or say and help turn this around. We don't need Hex to be compared to MTG all the time, we can show it is it's own thing. Nobody is denying it's roots.... most TCG's could not deny having the SAME roots... But instead of Fanboyish stupid drivel of ''The difference is that Hex is soooooooo much cooler'' we can simply show that the game has a unique proposal and it's building blocks are original ,even if the core materials are very similar...

    This is MUCH more important right now than what we currently have here of mudslinging all around and people trying to read minds and predict the future... stop that.
    Last edited by Bells; 05-15-2014 at 05:41 AM.

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashenai View Post
    Don't be ridiculous. I'm just a guy who plays a lot of Magic (google ashenai magic if you want), and I heard about Hex being sued on a Magic message board. I made an account here because I remembered hearing about the Hex kickstarter, and I was curious what you guys thought of the issue. I can't imagine a Wizards employee would possibly care what you guys think of this. Obviously you guys are going to be on cryptozoic's side; you're invested in the game, both emotionally and financially. It only makes sense that you'd want what's best for Hex, and you wouldn't care what's best for Magic.

    I dunno anything about copyright/trademark law either, and I was hoping some of you might have some useful information. And some of you did! I feel like I learned a lot.
    You serious? They obviously care and read this thread by the fact that they used posts on this very forum and by the community comparing the two to help create their case. Which all gets cancelled by posts that praise the differences in HEX and talks down to MTG but no one will see that now will they? Hooray for being selective.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Bells View Post
    WoTC won't win this, simply because Hex has enough alterations and innovations to be consider it's own unique product in a way that cannot be replicated by MTG. You can insert bits and pieces of Hex IN MTG... that is also true to most TCG's, but you CANNOT insert the whole game. That is key.
    If you copy something but add to it you still have to pay a license. WotC are one of the most litigious companies out there and the only company to ever 'beat' them did so on the basis of adding to MtGs ideas - that was YuGiOh by Konami.

    Now I say 'beat' because even though Konami succeeded in their argument that they had added to MtGs ideas Konami still ended up having to pay WotC a license.

    Which do you think is more like MtG - YuGiOh or Hex ?

    Significant issues - MtG patents expire next year. The copyrights held for MtG don't actually cover that much. This case will largely come down to Trade Dress. Crypto can come out of this with some wins but i) they are looking at making significant changes across the board, and ii) legal fees are going to be big.

    WotC will go all in on this - they won't back down. My theory is they will actually attempt to buy out Cryptozoic. They've done this before (eg when they went after Lot5R). They'll make an offer in the immediate future once the realities of how much each company is looking at in legal fees starts to sink in.
    Last edited by Flight; 05-15-2014 at 05:58 AM.

  4. #344
    They went after Yugioh too? Holyshit they're greedy unicornpoops. Games could not be any more different.

  5. #345
    I can't find anything about a lawsuit by WotC against Yu-Gi-Oh!

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  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by deathandtexas View Post
    I have never, ever heard "shard screwed" - but I have heard mana screwed lots of times.

    I think people are letting their love of Hex get in the way of honestly evaluating the similarities. Gin Rummy? Give me a break.
    indeed. its hard for me to even call the shards by their name. i just call them the color they are.

    you can love this game, but come on, lets be rational here.

  7. #347
    Here's an interesting quote from the clone wars article, as part of the judgement in Capcom vs. Data East (Street Fighter 2, Fighter's History):

    What the Street Fighter case demonstrates is that even if a defendant creates a game that is incredibly similar to another very popular, antecedent game, that defendant can help avoid copyright infringement if it has already established an earlier practice of creating games in that genre.
    The fact that CZE has been making dozens of paper card games for years may actually prove to be a very valuable argument in their defense. They have dozens of CCG / TCG games under their belt, so the differences in mechanics, appearance, lore, and whatnot combined with that may be more than enough to protect them from losing the case.

    That doesn't mean it's not going to be horribly expensive to fight for their rights, though... which is, of course, the point. This is a bullying tactic by WotC / Hasbro, a giant company that has been resting on their laurels for far too long and letting their own product become stagnant. They see Hex and what it represents for the future as a threat to their business, so whether or not their claims are substantive enough, they are lashing out to put pressure on CZE.

    "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none."
    - Shakespeare, All's Well That Ends Well

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Turtlewing View Post
    Mostly I'm just surprised that all the other TCGs didn't get sued. And in light of Wizards (as far as I know) ignoring those other games I think it's a bit of a dick move to single out Hex.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dynimix View Post
    The real surprise, Wizards have not gone after Blizzard yet. While the game has various tweaks to the concept to make it slightly more accessible, they also mimic a large portion of the MTG mechanics....
    The reason they're suing CZE and not Blizzard or all of the other TCG makers is likely because Hex is so much closer to MTG than the other games. Let's look at the specific "copied elements" mentioned in the lawsuit and see which apply to Hearthstone:

    20 starting life Nope. HS has 30.
    Win - remove all life or opponent out of cards: Only partially. Drawing from an empty deck does not cause you to lose in HS.
    Tapping: Does not exist in HS.
    Untapping cards: No tapping, so again no.
    Creatures feature power and toughness and damage resets each turn: Damage in HS is permanent.
    5 colors: Nope, HS has 9 classes, which function differently from colors.
    Colorless (artifact) spells and creatures: HS has neutral creatures (which aren't flavorfully artifacts), but no neutral spells.
    7 card starting hand: Nope, 3 for player going first, 4 for player going second.
    Draw 1 card per turn: Yup.
    Maximum hand size of 7: HS uses 10, and it functions differently.
    Allowed to play one resource per turn (1 mana card): HS doesn't have mana cards. Resources are automatically added rather than played.
    Combat (Attacking and choosing blockers): HS's combat system is very different and is missing the choosing blockers part.
    FILO Stack: Nope
    Card types and effectS: HS shares creature and Sorcery, adds weapon, and removes the rest.
    Rarity: 5 rarities (Basic, Common, Rare, Epic, Legendary) rather than 4.
    Booster Pack distribution: Completely different, other than both guarantee a rare or higher.
    Turn structure: completely different.
    Land cards: nope
    Deck referred to as "Library": nope
    Discard pile referred to as "graveyard": nope
    Deck size of 60 cards: HS uses 30.
    Maximum of 4 of a card in a deck: 2 for HS, or 1 for Legendaries.
    Mulligan rule: different
    Summoning sickness: yup
    Keywords: Of the ones listed, only 1 has a direct equivalent (Haste=charge)

    So of that long list of "copied elements" there are only 2 (draw a card each turn and summoning sickness) which HS does as well. A few more have some similarity and most are completely different in Hearthstone. If you want, feel free to try this exercise for other games.

    This is why Hasbro is suing CZE and not the makers of other games. Unlike other games, they think Hex is close enough that they can convince a jury.

  9. #349
    No. If Wizards wins this lawsuit against CZE then Capcom should be suing every single fighting game that comes out for looking similar to Street Fighter.
    -They took the health bar!
    0They took meter!
    -They took our combos!
    They took our rushdown character!
    They even use the term rushdown!
    They stole our 6 button attack inputs!
    They stole dashing!
    They use online play in their games!
    They have ranking for their online games!

    It's just bullying the little guy. You can't copyright mechanics.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Kroan View Post
    I can't find anything about a lawsuit by WotC against Yu-Gi-Oh!

    It related to Patent 6,398,651 which Konami achieved by showing that they went beyond and built upon Wizard's Patent 5,662,332

    Significant that improvement patents need a license so Konami will have to have come to undisclosed agreements with WotC to use it.

    There was the other slightly farcical one where Konami were forced to remove the word 'magic' from their cards but that was quite disparate.

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