Page 90 of 130 FirstFirst ... 40808889909192100 ... LastLast
Results 891 to 900 of 1296

Thread: Hex sued by MTG

  1. #891
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwaer View Post
    It absolutely is relevant, each of those games had a picture of your guy, that took damage, located at the bottom of the screen, the gun in the center of the screen, the same types of guns with some notable additions, but same as hex, so many things were done identically because they functionally made sense, That's where you're not comprehending the issue with their trade dress claim. It makes sense functionally to lay out your cards in a certain way, Hex has cost and theshold on the left so they're always visible, text at the bottom and pictures at the top, because most people are going to identify their cards by the picture, and it doesn't make sense to have your cards slightly higher than the bottom of the screen so they can slide down when you hover over them to get a full look at the art, all of these choices they are claiming are style choices are actually function choices. The size of the cards is already an issue because they are basically unreadable as is, and don't fit well on the screen once you get 6 of them so being much bigger would just mean they have to shrink faster.

    The issue isn't that there were a rash of FPS games that came out near eachother, the issue is that they were all basically identical in implementation with iterative improvments, and that is how all gaming genres have evolved in my experience.


    Hex is nowhere near your dogenstein example, though if done correctly that would likely be protected as parody. In fact many of those decisions were actually changed to be better represented in a digital medium, IE the location of costs and threshold.

    It is actually some kind of shattering gaming as we know it changing lawsuit. If this succeeds on copyright or trade dress grounds we'll see law suits against games like dawngate, league of legends from moba creators, potentially games like torchlight and poe, from blizzard. Etc.

    If it succeeds on patent grounds, which imo is the best case scenario, we may not see many changes, but I'm honestly not sure what kind of patents blizzard holds on arpgs, or who might hold patents on mobas.
    It's not, you're wrong, sorry. There cannot be a copyright lawsuit over Halo and Call of Duty because they both have guns on the screen. An FPS is an idea; a TCG is an idea. Doom is an expression of an idea; Hex and Magic are expressions of an idea. This should not be that hard to understand, but you are apparently going to die on that hill.

    You can keep telling me that I'm "not comprehending" the issues, but the fact of the matter is only one us could actually dispense legal advice without committing a felony and it's not you. You keep weaving back and forth between three different legal theories into one giant clusterunicornpoop of a misunderstanding of the law and then telling the people who actually do this for a living that they don't know what they are talking about?

  2. #892
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwaer View Post
    So you're claiming now that magic holds some sort of right to TCG's with 5 factions? I mean, that is incredibly close to an MMO having the same number and general type of classes. Believe me, I am intimately aware of the ineptitude of juries to grasp finer points. It's notorious. I believe that there absolutely is a chance that everything goes tits up and Hex loses big. I do not believe however that is what should happen from the legal precedents that have already been set. But it absolutely could happen, and it could happen for a reason as simple as that.
    You have to look at the big picture though, not just some small details. But at the same time you can't ignore these small details either.

    I mean, a small and trivial things like "having 5 factions" alone doesn't mean anything. But adding this to other small (major or minor or whatever) similarities and you are looking at something that is very similar to the other. That's the point of the complaint from my understanding.

    Looking at this situation from a different perspective: If HEX came first, and MTG came later (everything else about the two games were the way they are now except maybe the vast amount of cards MTG has printed and imagine that WotC is a small, upcoming, KS-funded company), and CZE sued WotC. How would you react? Would you say CZE is bullying indie WotC? Would you demand CZE to drop the case?

  3. #893
    MTG's color wheel that they have cultivated as you say, conforms to societal norms. I cannot tell you how many fantasy books I have read that have water magic associated with mind for example, or fire magic with rage, hatred, anger, etc. Even if MTG created it initially, which I very much doubt, it is out now, they are in common usage all over the place, and it will be trivially easy to bring up examples of their use in games, pop culture, movies, books, whathaveyou. The color pie as you put it, is not a part of the patent, they have no copyrights on the general themes of the colors, and lastly, they fail as trade dress since they have the function of giving the player a general idea of the theme of the story, they allow an easy to remember representation of a colors general bailiwick, so that even a newish player in draft for the first time can more intuitively pick out what a color is about in a very short time without necessarily memorizing each individual card.

    Quote Originally Posted by GatticusFinch View Post
    It's not, you're wrong, sorry. There cannot be a copyright lawsuit over Halo and Call of Duty because they both have guns on the screen. An FPS is an idea; a TCG is an idea. Doom is an expression of an idea; Hex and Magic are expressions of an idea. This should not be that hard to understand, but you are apparently going to die on that hill.

    You can keep telling me that I'm "not comprehending" the issues, but the fact of the matter is only one us could actually dispense legal advice without committing a felony and it's not you. You keep weaving back and forth between three different legal theories into one giant clusterunicornpoop of a misunderstanding of the law and then telling the people who actually do this for a living that they don't know what they are talking about?
    You have no idea what I could or could not do and commit a felony, and yes. I am saying you have no idea what you're talking about in this area. Also, a word of advice, from one amicable forum user to another, if you are a lawyer, and you insist on continuing to spout that you are a lawyer at every opportunity, while continuing to offer these... opinions that look very much like legal advice at times, you may consider choosing your wording a bit more carefully, because it is not difficult to associate your handle in this instance with a real person, who might be misconstrued as giving legal advice on the internet to people in certain states which look upon that dis-favorably. Just something to consider.
    Last edited by Gwaer; 05-17-2014 at 11:26 PM.
    ----
    http://i.imgur.com/I1MZpF8.png
    HexEnt is too long to type, They're HXE now.
    I am currently trading my unused GK code for a new Tesla Model S P85D
    Feel free to contact me for where you can have it shipped.

  4. #894
    Quote Originally Posted by GatticusFinch View Post
    People keep coming back to the FPS issue and it is totally not relevant. People are failing to understand the differences between the copyright claim, the patent claim, and the trade dress claim.

    (1) A game where you are a first person shooter is an idea.
    (2) Ideas are not copyrightable.
    (3) Expressions of ideas are copyrightable.

    I can make whatever kind of FPS I want, but I can't make Dogenstein 3D set in a nazi castle. WotC can't file winnable copyright or trade dress claims against anyone making a card game just because it has cards in it, because a card game is an idea. The copyright claim is about Hex's expression of WotC's idea of card game in MtG, and whether or not it is substantially similar to the point it infringes on their creation.

    This is not some earth shattering, "gaming as we know it" changing lawsuit.
    IANAL, so correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know game mechanics are not copyrightable (that falls under patent law). If Hasbro was to win on the copyright claims due to similarity of the functional (re: non-artistic) components, it would set a new precedent.

    The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.

  5. #895
    Quote Originally Posted by Cacheelma View Post
    Looking at this situation from a different perspective: If HEX came first, and MTG came later (everything else about the two games were the way they are now except maybe the vast amount of cards MTG has printed and imagine that WotC is a small, upcoming, KS-funded company), and CZE sued WotC. How would you react? Would you say CZE is bullying indie WotC? Would you demand CZE to drop the case?
    If it were going the other way I think that would be fine too. Either way all the lore, art, symbols, and other copyrightable expressions are different, so that's not an issue. More importantly, if time were running backwards here, MTG would be reinventing a digital game as a physical one, which would be a different kind of fundamental innovation. They'd have to take out all of Hex's digital-only features, but on the other hand, you could trade and collect cards without having to go through the licensed centralized online CZE-run auction house. You'd basically be trading some game features for increased collectability and the ability to play offline with friends who don't have computers and Hex accounts.

    Either way you run the clock, the games are significantly different. In one the cards have two sides, in the other they have three. One you can play on a kitchen table, one you can't.
    Last edited by Hieronymous; 05-17-2014 at 11:26 PM.
    -------
    "Surprise"

  6. #896
    Master Theorycrafter
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    679
    I wish everyone would just put Gwaer on ignore.

  7. #897
    Quote Originally Posted by Anssi View Post
    I wish everyone would just put Gwaer on ignore.
    But he hitchhiked as a kid...he knows things man, like, the world and shit.

  8. #898
    Quote Originally Posted by Hieronymous View Post
    "Substantially similar" (if that's the relevant standard -- I'm not sure it is?) has a very specific meaning though. It isn't just "are these two things like each other." It requires a pretty precise level of similarity, far more than the similarities between Hex and MTG.
    If you don't know what the standard is, how do you know what its "very specific meaning" is? Do you know what appellate circuit this case is in? Do you know that circuit's test for substantial similarity?

  9. #899
    Quote Originally Posted by bojanglesz View Post
    But he hitchhiked as a kid...he knows things man, like, the world and shit.
    ^ true story, I do know things.
    ----
    http://i.imgur.com/I1MZpF8.png
    HexEnt is too long to type, They're HXE now.
    I am currently trading my unused GK code for a new Tesla Model S P85D
    Feel free to contact me for where you can have it shipped.

  10. #900
    Quote Originally Posted by Hieronymous View Post
    If it were going the other way I think that would be fine too. Either way all the lore, art, symbols, and other copyrightable expressions are different, so that's not an issue. More importantly, if time were running backwards here, MTG would be reinventing a digital game as a physical one, which would be a different kind of fundamental innovation. They'd have to take out all of Hex's digital-only features, but on the other hand, you could trade and collect cards without having to go through the licensed centralized online CZE-run auction house. You'd basically be trading some game features for increased collectability and the ability to play offline with friends who don't have computers and Hex accounts.

    Either way you run the clock, the games are significantly different. In one the cards have two sides, in the other they have three.
    The thing is though, HEX cards right now are also two-sided (right? or am I too stupid to flip them to the double-back side?).

    I don't know about the law, but had the PvE side of Hex come out first and there is THAT big part of the game to differentiate HEX from MtG (and DotP), we might not see this legal action whatsoever. right? I mean, cards would be able to level up and transform and do so many other things instead of just be "MtG-like" the way they are now.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •