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Thread: Hex sued by MTG

  1. #951
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaunt View Post
    If Gatticus fails to understand the gaming industry, it's only because he does a good job understanding the court, who will neither know nor care about gaming industry custom.
    his legal insight seems to be fairly acurate. i am just pointing out that he keeps dismising a relevant comparison. i can only hope that this case does not makes it to a court room thou.

  2. #952
    Quote Originally Posted by Cacheelma View Post
    Yeah yeah even I wish it's totally up to you to decide that...
    Tell me how it's a clone and then compare it to other things in the video game industry. According to the argument of WoTC then every MMO after Everquest is also a clone. The patent is too broad, according to that if you are following laws that nobody cares about then yes, everything is a clone of everything.

  3. #953
    Quote Originally Posted by MuffLord4 View Post
    Tell me how it's a clone and then compare it to other things in the video game industry. According to the argument of WoTC then every MMO after Everquest is also a clone. The patent is too broad, according to that if you are following laws that nobody cares about then yes, everything is a clone of everything.
    My point is it's not up to any of us here to decide. Again, we are more or less on the same side here. There's no point attacking each other.

  4. #954
    Quote Originally Posted by Cacheelma View Post
    Don't even get me to start on that. To be honest. My thought process when I "Backed" this project was a little different from yours. But we are more or less in the same boat here (being surprised we're being sued, I mean).
    surprised?
    hell i totally expected WOTC being the douches they are to find some way to go to court.
    its not the first time and it wont be the last.
    anywhoo...
    i still dont get why this is a magic clone.
    its like some catch phrase gamers blather on about.

  5. #955
    Quote Originally Posted by Erukk View Post
    I would imagine that getting sued would make any week a hard week, especially if someone is trying to take your baby (Hex) away.
    Also all the people who have said it was lazy and that cze should burn for all their transgressions. Heck a freelance artist that did some work for them said he was glad they were getting sued. Overall of he reads anything off site, it's probably quite demoralizing considering how much he believes in Hex.

  6. #956
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaunt View Post
    If Gatticus fails to understand the gaming industry, it's only because he does a good job understanding the court, who will neither know nor care about gaming industry custom.
    Eh, I still think he's overestimating the strength of WotC's case. There's a big difference between a claim being non-frivolous and a claim being likely to succeed on the merits. WotC's claims aren't frivolous -- there are similarities, etc. But they aren't (or at least shouldn't) be likely to actually succeed in court.

    I think people are just letting Wizards' argument dominate in their heads because they've seen WotC's complaint but haven't seen Hex's response.
    -------
    "Surprise"

  7. #957
    I'm not sure how strong he thinks Hasbro's case is, aside from "non-frivolous". I tend to agree with you though, if I were Hasbro I wouldn't like my odds of prevailing. I would, however, like my odds of bankrupting CZE. I would also like my odds of winning better than my odds of not bleeding cash if I didn't sue.

  8. #958
    Quote Originally Posted by Hieronymous View Post
    Eh, I still think he's overestimating the strength of WotC's case. There's a big difference between a claim being non-frivolous and a claim being likely to succeed on the merits. WotC's claims aren't frivolous -- there are similarities, etc. But they aren't (or at least shouldn't) be likely to actually succeed in court.

    I think people are just letting Wizards' argument dominate in their heads because they've seen WotC's complaint but haven't seen Hex's response.
    The issue is that there's not much precedent for this kind of stuff in the digital gaming industry. Clones, absolutely. Copyright infringement, that has a few cases. Patent infringement? Trade dress infringement? There's really not that much. With patents, the big issue is that you not only do you need to apply for the patent, it's going to be really hard to find out how well that patent will hold up until after you spend a lot of money in court - not many companies do it because not many companies can gamble that money away. To my knowledge, MTG's patent has not yet made it to court; it's only intimidated other companies into licensing agreements. And trade dress? I haven't heard the term before because I'm not aware of anything in the games industry that has had with a lawsuit with it.

    In other words, there are not many precedents here so neither side should feel secure in their position.
    Keep Name: Shalott
    Proud member of Clan Blackblade.

  9. #959
    Trade dress has to be non functional so it is really odd seeing it in this context regardless.

  10. #960
    There's a lot of negativity going on here but let's consider all the good news:

    -All creative expressions in Hex whether it be story, art, music, or code are all entirely original.

    -Copyright does not protect the idea, rules, or methods of playing a game (there are dozens of backgammon/match-3 type of games on the market which exist with the EXACT same rules, steps, methods, win conditions etc).

    -The trade dress issue, which seems to exist to prevent consumers from being tricked into buying the wrong product, is not an issue for a digital offering that requires very specific set of steps to purchase the product (go to Hex website, download Hex client, register for a Hex account, then go to the Hex store section, click on a pack clearly labeled Hex, and finally checkout using Hex's own system.)

    -The cards and UI in its current state have enough differences that lets people distinguish the two and furthermore any similarities can be argued to be functional in purpose

    -Magics patent applies to any game that lets you collect cards and build decks (so pretty much the whole genre) - and thus seems too broad to take seriously.

    -The patent in question expires June 22nd 2014

    -The patent could even be rendered invalid just based on the fact that many of the cards and ideas were floated around before the patent was applied for (and it was beyond the scope of R&D testing purposes)

    -US law doesn't seem to consider Kickstarter backers as consumers (which is why you're not entitled to any refund if anything comes of the game).

    -The game being born out of a massively successful Kickstarter campaign suggests that this is a game the market/consumers explicitly want and is not a cheap copy clone that attempts to make a quick buck off someone else's name. In fact no where in the KS campaign is the word Magic the Gathering mentioned. Any jury will be hard pressed to ignore this fact.

    -The actual direct PVP battle part of the game which seems to be the entire focus of the suit is actually only a small portion of the TCGMMO that is Hex. The other elements in the game (some of which are already in the game, with many others in the works) are very much part of the overall game that is Hex (for example the combat mechanics of WoW are not even close to being the entirety of what the game is about). So you can't simply focus on 5% of a game and say 100% of the game is a copy (even when as previously discussed a large part of that 5% is not even close to being 100% the same as MTG). Sockets and champions by themselves are an incredible new innovation that Hex has come up with that adds much depth to the game.

    -Hasbro's confidence seems to be coming from that Triple Town vs Yeti Town case (they use same tactics like citing bloggers and even ask for same amount in damages) but that case is entirely different and involves code sharing between the two parties before the game was even released.

    -Card names being the same or similar when common verbs/nouns/expressions are concerned is not an issue. If it were then Magic could release a special set and have millions of permutations of every common phrase and bar anyone from making cards with names that resemble anything.

    -A TCG having 5 colors, the amount of money MTG spent on R&D, special abilities of a card - none of this really matters and can't be used to prevent others from making similar versions.

    Hasbro realizes that they lose out on every single point mentioned here analyzed individually so as the lawyer in quietspeculation argues, they've tried to jumble the points together to try to make a case that might fool some judge somewhere.

    So since Hex is not in violation of any specific rule, the case boils down to a subjective questions of whether a game like this has merit to exist. The fact that it is birthed by a smashing success of a Kickstarter (aka real world consumers), seems to be a pretty strong argument in favor of the idea that this game brings enough to the table to exist.

    The only possible stumbling block should be that ridiculous patent, if which it somehow stands, can destroy just about every TCG on the market today.

    PS: IANAL

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