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Thread: Mutate still drawing a card when counterspelled?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinfoil View Post
    So the set 2 card Cannon Volley will be countered if any of the targets become invalid?
    Of course not - it has three separate effects. I can't think of any reason why it would not resolve without being countered or all the targets being removed.
    Xenavire, proud guild leader for The Lions Share.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenavire View Post
    Of course not - it has three separate effects. I can't think of any reason why it would not resolve without being countered or all the targets being removed.
    I feel the same way, but the discussion above seem to go in two directions. Atrophy, Mutate ect. also have seperate effects and some people including Dionyx think they should fizzle if one of the effects target becomes illegal. If that is the logic then I that would also apply to the volley cannon.

    Its a question about if --> then clauses vs seperate effects and I think it reflects inconsistent wording in some cases though I havn't checked.
    IGN: Fensale

  3. #13
    Ok, having looked into how it works in our inherited rules set, I've discovered that this is how it works:

    If you cast a spell that has one or more targets, the spell will fizzle if ALL of those targets become invalid. Any non-targeted effects will also fizzle if ALL of the targets are invalid. If even one target remains valid, the spell will resolve and carry out as much as it can with the targets remaining, and all portions of the spell will happen.

    This means Mutate will fizzle since it has only one target (sorry for doubting you, DionyzRex!) Mortar Strike should not bury troops as it is not targeting either the deck or the opponent, it only targets a troop. Atrophy has one target, thus should not draw a card. Cannon Volley has 1-3 targets. If all of those targets become invalid, nothing happens. If any targets remain valid when it resolves, those targets will still get hit. It sounds like all of these cards are bugged if they are still firing their secondary effects after the target is invalidated.

    The only spell I can find that targets multiple things in Set 1 is Corrupted Afterlife, which targets three troops in a graveyard. If this were cast and one of those troops was removed before the spell resolved, the remaining two troops should still get transformed into Zombies and put into play.

    *edit* Suppressive Fire as well, thanks Krond. This should still go off if two targets are chosen and one becomes invalid.
    Last edited by AswanJaguar; 08-20-2014 at 04:01 PM. Reason: Added multi-target spells

  4. #14
    Suppressive Fire. It targets up to two troops.

  5. #15
    Nice digging Aswan. Where did you find this information?
    IGN: Fensale

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinfoil View Post
    Nice digging Aswan. Where did you find this information?
    I scoured many a dark, dirty tome of MTG lore to find people discussing the same topic as it applies to that game. Here's the relevant passage from the Comp Rules:

    608.2b. If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target thatís no longer in the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its characteristics may have changed or an effect may have changed the text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it was in, its last known information is used during this process. The spell or ability is countered if all its targets, for every instance of the word "target," are now illegal. If the spell or ability is not countered, it will resolve normally. However, if any of its targets are illegal, the part of the spell or abilityís effect for which it is an illegal target canít perform any actions on that target, make another object or player perform any actions on that target, or make that target perform any actions. If the spell or ability creates a continuous effect that affects game rules (see rule 613.10), that effect doesnít apply to illegal targets. The effect may still determine information about illegal targets, though, and other parts of the effect for which those targets are not illegal may still affect them

    I bolded the appropriate sentence for our discussion. It doesn't matter if the effects are on one line, two lines, etc. It matter only whether there are valid targets remaining at resolution. If so, the spell goes off and everything happens. If not, nothing happens.
    Last edited by AswanJaguar; 08-24-2014 at 12:10 PM.

  7. #17
    okay, so not officially Hex rules, but close enough for now. Having a general rule is pretty important. Again, nice find.
    IGN: Fensale

  8. #18
    Its possible that in HEX that spells do not fizzle out if targets become invalid and tries to attempt as much as possible. However ewither a hex rep would have to state that or we get a comprehensive rule book.

    We have seen some changes from MTG such as crush vs trample in HEX's Rulebook.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Estar1 View Post
    We have seen some changes from MTG such as crush vs trample in HEX's Rulebook.
    True, however given that 99% of the ruleset is transferrable, I propose that it's best to proceed on the assumption that it works the same way as MTG unless someone from CZE says differently.

    Comprehensive rules would be ideal though, guys! They really shouldn't be taking this long.

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