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Thread: Blood Cauldron Ritualist bug

  1. #1

    Blood Cauldron Ritualist bug

    If you enhance Blood Cauldron Ritualist, lets say with a Blood Aura, it becomes a 2/2 with Lifedrain. Thats as expected and fine. But if you now activate his effect to become a 5/5, he becomes 6/6 instead. Basically the card works right now like this: Sacrifice another troop: Blood Cauldron Ritualist gets +4/+4, but no more than +4/+4.

    That would also mean, on the contrary, that if i use a Xentoth's Inquisitor on him to give him -3 Atk, he will only be a 2/5 after saccing another troop, instead of becoming a 5/5.

  2. #2
    I think you're misunderstanding the effect.

    It's technically a single-turn transformation. Status effects last through transformation.

    So it becomes a 5/5 (base) and then is modified by whatever affected it (Xentoth, Blood Aura, etc.).

    That's working correctly as far as I'm aware.

  3. #3
    I'm pretty sure it doesn't. The wording itself is exact and spot on. His effect should override all current status changes. It doesn't say: Ritualist gets +4/+4, it says it becomes a 5/5. You can, of course, make him bigger after his effect resolved for the turn.


    p.s.: Would be nice if you move it to the bug section though. Posting half asleep is not good
    Last edited by Jeevus; 10-21-2014 at 07:58 AM.

  4. #4

  5. #5
    No it is working correctly. Look at Angelic Ascension. It works the same way. Target troop becomes an angel. It keeps all permanent effects on top of that. It's a transformation effect which doesn't modify permanent effects. It doesn't say to revert anywhere.

    I'm not sure why they didn't just make it "gets +4/+4" though.

  6. #6
    It can take a bit grok. "Becomes" is a transformation of the base card. Modifications to cards,both good and bad, are "riding on top" of the base card and are unaffected by the transformations. The only was to undo permanent mods is revert.

  7. #7
    To look at how another game does it:

    613.3. Within layer 7, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the order described below. Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order.

    613.3a Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities are applied.

    613.3b Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied.

    613.3c Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don't set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.


    In Hex (if these rules were to be applied) layer 7a would include transformations, layer 7b would include the ritualist ability, and layer 7c would include blood aura.

    It doesn't grant +4/+4 because the design wants to prevent abuse through use of the ability multiple times per turn.
    IGN: Magic

    Member of The Unnamed Council- the Hex TCG PvE Guild

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Svenn View Post
    No it is working correctly. Look at Angelic Ascension. It works the same way. Target troop becomes an angel. It keeps all permanent effects on top of that. It's a transformation effect which doesn't modify permanent effects. It doesn't say to revert anywhere.

    I'm not sure why they didn't just make it "gets +4/+4" though.
    Let me take your example. Angelic Ascencion says: Transforms into. Thats different from altering the stats. I can't recall a card with that wording. If the Ritualist is expected to work like that, why isn't the text like that: Sacrifice another troop: Blood Cauldron Ritualist transforms into a 5/5 Blood Cauldron Ritualist until end of turn.

    That would be the wording for the example you, Tazelbain and Scammanator described.


    I am quite familiar with the rulings as well. We all know, that Hex does some things differently. Thats exactly why i thought the Ritualist works like he used to (and that means his stats become 5/5 for the turn, overwriting his prior stats.)


    Update: I actually got a refund from hex-support (Lost the draft due to this.). I can't say for sure whether they tested it themselves to varify or just accepted my complain. Though they asked for specific information of another bug i sadly encountered yesterday
    (For those who want to know: I couldn't respond on my own Emissary with Ascetic Aspirant Effect, even though he was in play for a turn already)
    Last edited by Jeevus; 10-21-2014 at 09:51 AM.

  9. #9
    Gigantisaur
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    It's not worded as +4/+4, because then you could pump it more than once. (You could make a very solid argument for 'once per turn, this troop gains +4/+4')

    Linguistically, the card isn't inaccurate. The ambiguity is in the term 'becomes,' which there is no real definitive explanation for as a game mechanic.

    We do, however, have a clear definition of the revert mechanic, which this card lacks - If, for example, the Ritualist had flight on it from a charge power or sapphire aura or inspire, etc, you would not expect it to lose flight because it is not specified as 'this troop becomes 5/5 with flight.' Similarly, other modifications should persist as well, meaning the ability does not preclude 'this troop becomes 5/5 with a -3 atk debuff applied to it'

    Personally, I think it would be a much more compelling mechanic if it did set atk/def to an immutable value regardless of other modifications - while it would not mean a whole lot for the Ritualist, it would open up possible quick actions and abilities, both offensively and defensively (ie, setting a troops atk/def to an immutable 3/3 for a turn could be a surprise buff or debuff, making it for more versatile than a simple +/- battle trick.)

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by MatWith1T View Post
    It's not worded as +4/+4, because then you could pump it more than once. (You could make a very solid argument for 'once per turn, this troop gains +4/+4')

    Linguistically, the card isn't inaccurate. The ambiguity is in the term 'becomes,' which there is no real definitive explanation for as a game mechanic.

    We do, however, have a clear definition of the revert mechanic, which this card lacks - If, for example, the Ritualist had flight on it from a charge power or sapphire aura or inspire, etc, you would not expect it to lose flight because it is not specified as 'this troop becomes 5/5 with flight.' Similarly, other modifications should persist as well, meaning the ability does not preclude 'this troop becomes 5/5 with a -3 atk debuff applied to it'

    Personally, I think it would be a much more compelling mechanic if it did set atk/def to an immutable value regardless of other modifications - while it would not mean a whole lot for the Ritualist, it would open up possible quick actions and abilities, both offensively and defensively (ie, setting a troops atk/def to an immutable 3/3 for a turn could be a surprise buff or debuff, making it for more versatile than a simple +/- battle trick.)
    Its neither a revert nor a transform. It's nothing more but altering the atk and def values to a set amount. You described a transform effect, like i described in my point above. But thats not what the card does. At least in my opinion. But i feel im pretty much alone here ;p

    The rulings Scammanator pointed out is most likely what we call transform
    Last edited by Jeevus; 10-21-2014 at 12:49 PM.

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