Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 88

Thread: Where to report a trading scam?

  1. #51
    Gigantisaur
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Build it, and they will come.
    Posts
    1,356
    The problem is that the analogy is fundamentally broken because its digital and literally everyone is being tracked.

    Its as though you know that persons home address, can literally find them at any time, and can go to the authorities with perfect evidence of the crime being committed and no one does anything.

    "Sorry bud you knew the risks you were taking when we the authorities have perfect knowledge of all actions happening within this city. Next time a con artist dwells in the alley don't worry we won't care to stop it."
    Last edited by Zomnivore; 10-28-2014 at 01:53 PM.

  2. #52
    Poor OP: his first post on the forums asking a legitimate question of where to report something, and he gets a shit-storm comprising of what amounts to many veteran players saying 'you won't have recourse because you are stupid.'

    To that OP - don't worry about us bickering about this, your question just hit a vein that needs debating. You're doing all you can do by going to support.hextcg.com, if they can't help you, maybe you can enter the discussion later and provide your perspective on how this should work out as you're probably one of the first people to be taken advantage of in the game in this way.

    Regardless of trading systems, etc. etc., a lot, and I mean a lot, of players, especially newer ones, will be taken advantage of. The question is: how does CZE adapt to it's users being scammed, and how do we adapt as a community?

    Note: there are no black and white solutions to that question - it's a problem that is going to change with each new wave of players, with each new feature in the client. The answer is probably closer to 'how do we approach the question' more than 'how do we approach the solution' as the solution will be moot by the time you theorize what that solution could be.

    To a certain degree I'm with Zomnivore here (though not completely) in that I don't like how a lot of our reactions in this thread defaulted to 'you should know better.'
    Last edited by fido_one; 10-28-2014 at 01:55 PM.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Zomnivore View Post
    The problem is that this is fundamentally broken because its digital and literally everyone is being tracked.

    Its as though you know that persons home address, can literally find them at any time, and can go to the authorities with perfect evidence of the crime being committed and no one does anything.

    "Sorry bud you knew the risks you were taking when we the authorities have perfect knowledge of all actions happening within this city."
    There is a problem with this - trade agreements can happen outside of the client.

    Quote Originally Posted by fido_one View Post
    Poor OP: his first post on the forums asking a legitimate question of where to report something, and he gets a shit-storm comprising of what amounts to many veteran players saying 'you won't have recourse because you are stupid.'
    Well, the first few responses did give him answer - a support ticket was his best bet. After that though... it derailed a little.
    Xenavire, proud guild leader for The Lions Share.
    http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/n...erlinsmall.png

  4. #54
    Gigantisaur
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Build it, and they will come.
    Posts
    1,356
    I'm not even pretending to cover outside of client agreements.

    CZE doesn't have to condone system exploitation even if functionally its what they want for their game so that they have full third market participation.

    If the mechanisms in game can't protect the legitimate users who don't partake in third party exercises because CZE wants to shadily protect the grey market then thats on CZE.

    This whole bull obscuration of reality for the purpose of supporting 'risky' trading potential harms genuine good users and CZE is responsible for protecting them before they protect the grey markets.

    As this is the legitimate forum for Hex discussion your arguments shouldn't be showing favoritism to the exploiters of the system. So honestly I don't see how you have any platform for dissent against my opinion as it is perfectly in line with protecting proper-usage-consumers.
    Last edited by Zomnivore; 10-28-2014 at 02:00 PM.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Zomnivore View Post
    I'm not even pretending to cover outside of client agreements.

    CZE doesn't have to condone system exploitation even if functionally its what they want for their game so that they have full third market participation.

    If the mechanisms in game can't protect the legitimate users who don't partake in third party exercises because CZE wants to shadily protect the grey market then thats on CZE.

    This whole bull obscuration of reality for the purpose of supporting 'risky' trading potential harms genuine good users and CZE is responsible for protecting them before they protect the grey markets.

    As this is the legitimate forum for Hex discussion your arguments shouldn't be showing favoritism to the exploiters of the system. So honestly I don't see how you have any platform for dissent against my opinion as it is perfectly in line with protecting proper-usage-consumers.
    Zomnivore - you are misunderstanding me. HexEnt can't enforce anything agreed to inside the client, because of the possibility of things being changed in discussions outside the client. It is not possible to police, therefore it is not possible for them to make it secure.

    Flat-out, that means they can't interfere, and won't.
    Xenavire, proud guild leader for The Lions Share.
    http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/n...erlinsmall.png

  6. #56
    Gigantisaur
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Build it, and they will come.
    Posts
    1,356
    I don't see the impossibility of enforcing in-client trades rigorously.

    If an agreement is made outside of client to change a transaction that is clearly where the risk is being taken. If a scammer wants to use out of client communication that is clearly where all risks are being taken.

    I still see no fundamental reason why in game client trading couldn't/shouldn't be protected.

    Why would out of client agreements have any sort of authority over in client agreements that CZE has the ability to monitor?

    If people are selling cards on Ebay, then its up to ebay to enforce the transaction or enforcement of punitive action. Thats not CZE's responsibility.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Zomnivore View Post
    I don't see the impossibility of enforcing in-client trades rigorously.

    If an agreement is made outside of client to change a transaction that is clearly where the risk is being taken. If a scammer wants to use out of client communication that is clearly where all risks are being taken.

    I still see no fundamental reason why in game client trading couldn't/shouldn't be protected.

    Why would out of client agreements have any sort of authority over in client agreements that CZE has the ability to monitor?

    If people are selling cards on Ebay, then its up to ebay to enforce the transaction or enforcement of punitive action. Thats not CZE's responsibility.
    I don't see how you aren't getting this...

    This is a potential situation that could go down, and how the person doing the scamming can 'claim' they did nothing wrong, thanks to faked chat logs of any external chat program or forum that HexEnt can't monitor.

    Player 1 and Player 2 agree to trade P1's Zoltog for P2's Eye. This is a lopsided trade, but ingame P2 seems keen to do it. P1 sends the Zoltog, never gets anything back. When P1 goes to support, support investigates, and comes back to P1 with a story about how P2 had allegedly sent P1 $4 via paypal, as agreed to outside of the client (including faked logs.) Support can't intervene, P1 lost their Zoltog.

    Now, the potential for this exists in every trade - anyone could be a scammer, anyone could have faked logs, anyone could claim being hacked, etc. Nothing that support can do about it. So they simply wont.

    It isn't possible to police in-game until real trading is implemented. End of story.
    Xenavire, proud guild leader for The Lions Share.
    http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/n...erlinsmall.png

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Zomnivore View Post
    I don't see the impossibility of enforcing in-client trades rigorously.

    If an agreement is made outside of client to change a transaction that is clearly where the risk is being taken. If a scammer wants to use out of client communication that is clearly where all risks are being taken.

    I still see no fundamental reason why in game client trading couldn't/shouldn't be protected.

    Why would out of client agreements have any sort of authority over in client agreements that CZE has the ability to monitor?

    If people are selling cards on Ebay, then its up to ebay to enforce the transaction or enforcement of punitive action. Thats not CZE's responsibility.
    There is already a method of trade in the game that's quite similar to Ebay. That's the sanctioned trade method. Anything outside of that should not be a concern of CZE.

    If they do try and police it, you'll end up with people exploiting those policies to their advantage. You'll have people making deals in game where it's visible, then messaging outside of game to change the deal. The deal goes through, then that person goes to CZE saying "They didn't fulfill the deal as promised!" It's really a bad idea for them to even try and get involved in policing that kind of stuff. That's specifically what the AH is for... it's the safe place for trading.

  9. #59
    My stance on this is to be realistic: if HexEnt decides to start policing mailing scams, that will become 90% of the work done by customer service. It's far easier for them to just let it go and warn people not to do trades outside the AH, than to spend valuable hours investigating scam reports.
    Watch me on Twitch!

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendakor View Post
    My stance on this is to be realistic: if HexEnt decides to start policing mailing scams, that will become 90% of the work done by customer service. It's far easier for them to just let it go and warn people not to do trades outside the AH, than to spend valuable hours investigating scam reports.
    This also.

    Do we really want them running round after people who did not want to use tha AH rather than working on more important features.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •