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Thread: Issues with stream sniping

  1. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by infam0usne0 View Post
    You cannot absolve a person from doing something wrong by saying it was easy to do. I didn't shove anything in anyone's face, any opponent knows they shouldn't be looking at my hand. They chose to anyway..
    Again, you're taking "any opponent knows they shouldn't be looking at my hand" as a given. My point is that when you're publicly displaying your hand -- and yes, public stream means public -- your opponents don't necessarily know that. Maybe you like the added challenge of playing with an exposed hand. Maybe you just don't care because you've already won an entry ticket. Even if you're saying "oh opponents please don't look" every so often, the mere fact that you're broadcasting to the public says it's ok for the public to look, and you're repeating that "it's ok to look" statement with every second you keep broadcasting on a public channel. That's what hosting a public stream means; it's public. If you don't want people to see, use a private stream, or a card shield.


    Quote Originally Posted by ryuukan View Post
    remember when Hex used to have the best community in gaming

    good times
    Ehh, probably still true even with this. This is the closest we've yet gotten to a real cheating scandal and it's so borderline there's a real argument over whether or not it even counts as cheating. Honestly, I think there's probably a better argument that use of twitch period is cheating (third-party app) than there is that watching a stream is cheating but broadcasting isn't.
    Last edited by Hieronymous; 11-16-2015 at 10:13 AM.
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  2. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by plaguedealer View Post
    My thing is that if one person is punished then so should the other person. I think it is bad for the game in the long term to punish people for twitch activity (except for screen sharing directly between opponents).
    I think we mostly agree, then. I'm fine with holding both parties accountable and deciding whether each is an offense against the ToS. My strong opinion is simply that stream sniping is very clearly against the spirit of the game.

    My other opinion (which does not impact the prior statement) is that streaming a game usually does not violate the spirit of the game. When players receive advice that gives them an advantage, I do think it does. And I think that happens on rare occasion, and I wish it didn't. My personal preference, given the benefit streaming has for the community, is to overlook the accidental advantage that occasionally pops up when it comes to minor tournaments like queues, gauntlets, scheduled, etc. I think that for major tournaments like VIP, Pro Player, and 100K, the streamer should either have a delay or not stream at all, so those mistakes can't happen.

    But even if it is decided that streaming constitutes collusion (if this were the official stance, I'd understand that), I'd rather be consistent here and penalize both sides than to accept stream sniping as ok just because the opponent was streaming.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aradon View Post
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  3. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Aradon View Post
    I think that for major tournaments like VIP, Pro Player, and 100K, the streamer should either have a delay or not stream at all,
    If Hex Entertainment takes any action at all on this, the preferable choice would probably be to require a stream delay or a card shield or both. But the best choice is probably just to warn people that they stream at their own risk.
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  4. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Hieronymous View Post
    If Hex Entertainment takes any action at all on this, the preferable choice would probably be to require a stream delay or a card shield or both. But the best choice is probably just to warn people that they stream at their own risk.
    Out of curiosity, what is your opinion about streaming drafts? They stream at their own risk, but also reveal information about other players at the table, and give the sniper an advantage over each player, not just the streamer.
    In-game: Obsidian || Collector backer || Starting a guild for Newbies -- "The Cerulea Acadamy"
    Quote Originally Posted by Aradon View Post
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  5. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Aradon View Post
    Out of curiosity, what is your opinion about streaming drafts? They stream at their own risk, but also reveal information about other players at the table, and give the sniper an advantage over each player, not just the streamer.
    Good question. I'm not really sure! For most drafts, I suspect that the long-term advantage to the game in increased publicity probably outweighs the theoretical possibility of harm to other players, especially since in the average draft the stakes are so low. Are people really gaining any more advantage than they would if they watched some other matches, or even just overheard people's comments on other matches, while waiting between rounds in a local MTG draft tournament? Or is that frowned on these days?

    For me at least it only seems really worth worrying about this question in the context of the big constructed qualifiers since there's a large cash prize on the line.
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  6. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Hieronymous View Post
    Again, you're taking "any opponent knows they shouldn't be looking at my hand" as a given. My point is that when you're publicly displaying your hand -- and yes, public stream means public -- your opponents don't necessarily know that.
    Oh, bullshit. There is not a single person who plays any sort of competitive card games who doesn't realize you're not supposed to look at your opponent's hand outside of the rules of the game. That is literally one of the basic tenets which very nearly every single competitive card game is built around, online or in dead tree format.

  7. #177
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    I think peeking at a streamer's hand is lame and I'd never do it.

    HOWEVER

    I also feel that when a streamer is streaming an open hand with no delay in a big tournament like this, it's the equivalent of one player showing their hand on a big screen off to the side of them while they play, and chatting with the audience about what's going on, and then meanwhile they ask their opponent to wear earmuffs and blinders and promise not to peek at any of it. That seems a little lame too. If this really happened in a real physical tournament it would be ridiculous and they would tell the "streamer" to knock it off or even DQ them.

    Streamers please cover your hands and/or use a delay in these tournaments, not just for your own protection or to keep the temptation away from your opponents, but also to help maintain the integrity of the tournament in general.

  8. #178
    This thread is comedy hour.

    Doing something dumb and then complaining when someone takes advantage of it should be a lesson to you. You have the tools at your disposal to either be safe while streaming, collude while streaming, invite dishonest practices while streaming, or simply don't stream at all. It's illegal to trespass, but you better believe I have a lock on my door. Good lord.

    Required viewing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trYm4vTT2ec

  9. #179
    Not locking your door doesn't mean that someone who steals from you can't be punished.

    Similarly like the original in person lol tournaments that didn't have the big screen covered well enough players looking at it were punished, and the following year the screens were moved.
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  10. #180
    Regardless of whether or not it's a "good idea" to share your game on stream during a large tournament is a completely separate issue. The idea that ANYONE can attempt to claim that looking at someone's hand in a manner not supported by the game engine itself is NOT dirty, immoral, unsportsmanlike, or against the spirit of the game is ludicrous.

    It does not matter that it is possible (or even easy to do), it does not matter that it is hard to police, it is still WRONG. Plain and simple.

    As far as I'm concerned, such a blatant display of misconduct in such a public manner should absolutely be dealt with harshly. Especially considering how other punishments have been handed down in the past for far more nebulous "infractions." I have never seen a more clear-cut violation of Rule 5b in the history of Hex. An example needs to be made of Cyriius so it's very clear that such behavior is not condoned and will not be tolerated.
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