Page 19 of 57 FirstFirst ... 9171819202129 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 190 of 562

Thread: Issues with stream sniping

  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by ossuary View Post
    Regardless of whether or not it's a "good idea" to share your game on stream during a large tournament is a completely separate issue. The idea that ANYONE can attempt to claim that looking at someone's hand in a manner not supported by the game engine itself is NOT dirty, immoral, unsportsmanlike, or against the spirit of the game is ludicrous.

    It does not matter that it is possible (or even easy to do), it does not matter that it is hard to police, it is still WRONG. Plain and simple.

    As far as I'm concerned, such a blatant display of misconduct in such a public manner should absolutely be dealt with harshly. Especially considering how other punishments have been handed down in the past for far more nebulous "infractions." I have never seen a more clear-cut violation of Rule 5b in the history of Hex. An example needs to be made of Cyriius so it's very clear that such behavior is not condoned and will not be tolerated.
    What he did is scummy and he took advantage of someone who has helped the community for years. Having said that, he should not be punished for the reasons already stated.

  2. #182
    Master Theorycrafter
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Euless, TX
    Posts
    628
    Let's talk consequences.

    What happens if Hex brings down the hammer on the sniper? How do we react as streamer and the community?
    What happens if Hex does nothing?

    Generally to competitive streamers this instance is a lesson to employ methods to protect play from sniping. Longer Delays card shields and such. If Hex punishes the sniper in some form and makes the info public we have an example of bad behavior and a line in the sand of sorts. For good or ill.

    If nothing happens to the sniper we have a different line in the sand and streamers have a larger disincentive to stream large events. The Cup of Fate from 5 shards had very few streamers actually streaming games making live coverage of the event difficult. Hex does not yet have the back end support to make those games visible to for everyone after a delay either. Together these realities reduce the growth of community e-sports coverage. When we add on no punishment for stream sniping we just add another tick in the reduced e-sport growth column.

    As a streamer I want more people watching Hex and participating in chat. One day I want to have 50-100 streamers participating in an IQ style event live while groups like Fiveshards, Momcards, and new channels working the game coverage adding in commentary. Sniping may and likely will happen when that dream day comes around but I want us to get there first. As long as what ever action Hex takes to move the game in that direction is the result from this I will feel copacetic and using a larger delay and a card shield.
    HexHunterMokog:

    My Latest Video: DeckTech: Elemental Storms!
    @ YouTube @ Facebook @ Twitter @ Twitch.tv

    Learn from Failure. Be Humble in Success.

  3. #183
    Mokog, where does that line stop at? If I stream and I am able to see chat telling me play options, do I have a advantage over my opponent? Is that advantage any different then sniping (the plays may not change in both scenarios).

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Zurai View Post
    Oh, bullshit. There is not a single person who plays any sort of competitive card games who doesn't realize you're not supposed to look at your opponent's hand outside of the rules of the game. That is literally one of the basic tenets which very nearly every single competitive card game is built around, online or in dead tree format.
    . . . unless your opponent shows you his hand. That's the thing; he did. In most competitive card games, online or off, people in competitive play don't choose to show their hands.

    Streaming is an overt choice that the streamer makes (and arguably benefits from in a number of ways). It also has some downside risk. Streamers should know that going in, and can't really complain about it when it happens.

    That said the sniper is being a poor sport sure but they aren't doing anything the streamer didn't invite and make possible, or that the streamer doesn't have every tool necessary to prevent.

    There's a difference between "this is wrong" and "this should be against the rules" or even "this should be punished." What the sniper did was wrong, sure -- like I've said above, poor sportsmanship if nothing else. But it wasn't any more against the rules than streaming is, and frankly, it shouldn't be punished, for a lot of reasons ranging from "no explicit rule against it" to future enforceability.
    Last edited by Hieronymous; 11-16-2015 at 12:13 PM.
    -------
    "Surprise"

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by plaguedealer View Post
    Mokog, where does that line stop at? If I stream and I am able to see chat telling me play options, do I have a advantage over my opponent? Is that advantage any different then sniping (the plays may not change in both scenarios).
    It's easily reportable when this happens and they can make the call if you're actually benefiting from viewer suggestions, but it's entirely irrelevant to the issue at hand.

    @^ that sentiment is exactly why hex should punish this behavior now and nip this inviting cheating nonsense in the bud. It's a ridiculous statement. It's basically the equivalent of telling girls how to dress to avoid getting harassed. The fault is entirely with the person making the decision to do the bad thing regardless of the fact there is a stream available that they shouldn't join even if it is on a delay with a card blocker.
    Last edited by Gwaer; 11-16-2015 at 12:13 PM.
    ----
    http://i.imgur.com/I1MZpF8.png
    HexEnt is too long to type, They're HXE now.
    I am currently trading my unused GK code for a new Tesla Model S P85D
    Feel free to contact me for where you can have it shipped.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwaer View Post
    It's easily reportable when this happens and they can make the call if you're actually benefiting from viewer suggestions, but it's entirely irrelevant to the issue at hand.
    It is not though, neo is a great player and doent need the help of chat. How about me? I may or may not be the best player and if I stream and get advice that benefits me, shoudnt I be punished? It is difficult to prove I got a advantage and neo did not.
    Last edited by plaguedealer; 11-16-2015 at 12:16 PM.

  7. #187
    Generally, if it's wrong, it's against the rules. That's why they put that clause in the rules.
    In-game: Obsidian || Collector backer || Starting a guild for Newbies -- "The Cerulea Acadamy"
    Quote Originally Posted by Aradon View Post
    Cory is a man of unrelenting promises and optimism!

  8. #188
    Master Theorycrafter
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    756
    All these posts about "he invited it, he's asking for it, he's an idiot" remind me why I stopped playing that other popular paper tcg and sadden me that some of that ilk is growing here

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwaer View Post
    It's a ridiculous statement. It's basically the equivalent of telling girls how to dress to avoid getting harassed.
    Y'know, even if this comparison were valid, and it isn't, it would be horribly offensive.

    The better analogy -- as I pointed out above -- is paparazzi and celebrities. Paparazzi are assholes but when they photograph people who are in the public streets, they're within their rights. When streamers put themselves forward for publicity, fame has a price.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradon View Post
    Generally, if it's wrong, it's against the rules. That's why they put that clause in the rules.


    In any game or sport though there are going to be tactics that are lame as hell but not technically against the rules. Mayweather is a shitty lame boxer to watch but he wins matches using his lame run-away tactics and he's boxing within the rules.

    Hell, for a long time Titania's Majesty was lame as hell to play with, but still technically legal, so every other deck people played was R/W ramp with Titania's. Valid, legal, lame.

    Stream "sniping" is in the same category. Lame, annoying, legal. Since we can't really make a rule against it due to enforceability concerns (as has been gone over above) it's probably going to stay that way. And it wouldn't be fair to go back and enact a retroactive rule now, either, because retroactive post-tourney rule changes are bad idea.

    End of the day, the "answer" to this is going to ultimately lie in the hands of streamers. They can use a card shield & delay, or they can not stream, or they can stream with no delay and no shield and accept that sniping is going to happen when they do. Power is in their hands; they have the choice. But streaming with no protections in place and then getting upset when they get sniped is like pissing into the wind and getting angry about the blowback.
    Last edited by Hieronymous; 11-16-2015 at 12:25 PM.
    -------
    "Surprise"

  10. #190
    Try streaming for a while. Report back in a thread that's relevant in. Personally I don't think you'll get much from it, and like I said earlier streaming has inherent delays it's easy to tell when someone is making decisions based on chat and report them for it. Then there is video evidence to verify. No one has said streamers are immune to collusion rules. But people are making the argument that people who go outside of the game to get information they shouldn't have should be.


    I disagree. You're saying it's human nature to cheat, it's literally the same argument that people make in defense of harassment.
    ----
    http://i.imgur.com/I1MZpF8.png
    HexEnt is too long to type, They're HXE now.
    I am currently trading my unused GK code for a new Tesla Model S P85D
    Feel free to contact me for where you can have it shipped.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •