Page 20 of 57 FirstFirst ... 10181920212230 ... LastLast
Results 191 to 200 of 562

Thread: Issues with stream sniping

  1. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwaer View Post
    Try streaming for a while. Report back in a thread that's relevant in. Personally I don't think you'll get much from it, and like I said earlier streaming has inherent delays it's easy to tell when someone is making decisions based on chat and report them for it. Then there is video evidence to verify. No one has said streamers are immune to collusion rules. But people are making the argument that people who go outside of the game to get information they shouldn't have should be.
    I would suck at streaming, you would also be incorrect if you believe streamers do not take advice from chat. Some of that advice is actually good advice.

  2. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by infam0usne0 View Post
    You cannot absolve a person from doing something wrong by saying it was easy to do. I didn't shove anything in anyone's face, any opponent knows they shouldn't be looking at my hand. They chose to anyway.
    The fact that they could doesn't make it ok, they could have just played the game the way it was intended, they had to choose to open a browser, load up my stream and obtain the information.
    The fact is that i do run a public stream, and it is easy for people to look at my hand if they want to.
    But they shouldn't want to, it is not in the spirit of competition or the game to want to, wanting to is wanting to cheat. Doing so is cheating.
    The difference between this and having cards shoved in your face is that with stream sniping it is easier to not look. You still have to make an effort to see. You still have to want an unfair advantage and you still have to act upon that desire.
    Are you being serious? Even if I never heard of you, you've been featured on HEX's main page multiple times. So basically everyone that plays HEX remotely competitively knows you Stream. Not to mention you list, Twitch, youtube, and twitter all in your signature.

    Secondly, you chose to Stream this wide open. Did you before you qualified? NO. You recorded it and uploaded it later. Now your complaining that someone took advantage while you did it, as honestly it had very little impact on you overall other than you losing a few packs. I can honestly say it had little impact overall. There is no seating known in this game at the draft table.

    Do you think he was the only person watching your Stream that was in the Top8? I would highly doubt it. Maybe no one else will admit it, but I would guess you were watched the entire time.

    You blatantly give public information by streaming. Nothing prevents someone from watching your stream, you shoved it in your opponents face by utilizing a free media in order to broadcast your hand open to all. You call it stream sniping, I call it you don't care what your opponents know about your hand/deck. (Again, this is further iterated by the fact you already qualified, so you didn't care to open stream to begin with)

  3. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by swigmonkey View Post
    Do you think he was the only person watching your Stream that was in the Top8? I would highly doubt it. Maybe no one else will admit it, but I would guess you were watched the entire time.

    You blatantly give public information by streaming. Nothing prevents someone from watching your stream, you shoved it in your opponents face by utilizing a free media in order to broadcast your hand open to all. You call it stream sniping, I call it you don't care what your opponents know about your hand/deck. (Again, this is further iterated by the fact you already qualified, so you didn't care to open stream to begin with)

    This is said over and over again, like all the guy had to do was look down at the table, he had to open an external site, see if someone was streaming, presumably log out of twitch so as not to be caught, then wait for the inherent stream delay to make a decision it's not a matter of shoving something in someone's face it's a matter of making a conscious choice to cheat.

    Also, AFAIK Neo didn't make this thread or start this debate. It happened in his stream, he had to cut his stream to stop blatant admitted cheating, and other people were upset. He didn't make that post until pages in.
    ----
    http://i.imgur.com/I1MZpF8.png
    HexEnt is too long to type, They're HXE now.
    I am currently trading my unused GK code for a new Tesla Model S P85D
    Feel free to contact me for where you can have it shipped.

  4. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwaer View Post
    This is said over and over again, like all the guy had to do was look down at the table, he had to open an external site, see if someone was streaming, presumably log out of twitch so as not to be caught, then wait for the inherent stream delay to make a decision it's not a matter of shoving something in someone's face it's a matter of making a conscious choice to cheat.

    Also, AFAIK Neo didn't make this thread or start this debate. It happened in his stream, he had to cut his stream to stop blatant admitted cheating, and other people were upset. He didn't make that post until pages in.
    And streaming is cheating, so is using a voice program to ask your friend. Really you want to get on a debate about what is right and wrong? Almost all streamers ask and get outside help. There is no prevention of outside help in this game. It is impossible to police.

  5. #195
    Going to be frank, i don't care when people stream snipe me really, i accept that it's something that happens because of what i do.
    I understand that not using measures against it allows it to happen.
    I have been streaming for years and i notice when it happens, but i barely talk about the subject, beyond that.
    It's a part of the routine for me, i sacrifice my own wins and value in order to provide what i provide for the community.

    The problem i have, and the only reason i posted is the sheer amount of people saying that it isn't wrong, or even some that are saying that it should happen.
    How can any person say that cheating is right?
    How can you sit down and say that sure, if the opportunity presents itself, go ahead and cheat that's cool. Nothing wrong with that.

    The number of people in this thread saying essentially that, cheating is ok, taking advantage of good will is ok and being dishonest is ok is scary.
    Wether it should be enforced or not is not something i care to comment on, it's not my choice.
    But there shouldn't be a single person who plays this game that thinks taking advantage of someone or something in order to gain an unfair advantage is ok. There shouldn't be a single person trying to justify this action.

    Yes you may believe that the act is insignificant, unpunishable, easy. But never try to say it is ok to cheat. It is not ok to cheat, if you think it isn't cheating, you're wrong. There doesn't have to be a rule to see the obvious. No one should want this kind of thing to happen. Even if it is easily preventable. In competition the ideal is that everyone is honest and true. You should not be accepting of the times when people aren't and you should always stand against it.

    I don't want cyriius punished, he played very well in two tournaments regardless of this, What happened barely made a difference.
    The backlash of the community when something like this happens should be punishment enough. He has certainly done something to his own reputation if nothing else.
    But be careful because a lot of you trying to make the point it shouldn't be punished sound like you are supporting of it. Don't lend credence to the dishonest and exploitive behaviour.

  6. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwaer View Post
    This is said over and over again, like all the guy had to do was look down at the table, he had to open an external site, see if someone was streaming, presumably log out of twitch so as not to be caught, then wait for the inherent stream delay to make a decision it's not a matter of shoving something in someone's face it's a matter of making a conscious choice to cheat.
    .
    Both parties here made a conscious choice to enable what happened. The streamer made a conscious choice to show his hand, the viewer made a conscious choice to look.

    Both parties at least arguably gained some potential advantage by their choices (whether that advantage be advice, insight, fame, etc.) Both also at least arguably violated the TOS (at least insofar as they used a third party app, Twitch).

    For harassment etc. to be a valid analogy, there would have to be some protected "right to stream free from unwanted viewers" similar to an ordinary person's right to walk down the street un-harassed. I don't think anything establishes such a right, because streamers aren't just ordinary people; they're setting themselves up for public view, in the manner of a celebrity.- if you set yourself up as a public figure, if you want to be an e-sports celebrity, that "fame" has a price. If you ask people to watch you people are going to watch you.

    Said another way, an ordinary person might consider a lot of the things posted as youtube comments under (for example) Britney SPear's latest video to be offensive or harassing. But Britney Spears can't really complain because she's putting her videos out there for the public (especially if she chooses to leave youtube comments enabled).

    Streamers put themselves out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by infam0usne0 View Post
    The problem i have, and the only reason i posted is the sheer amount of people saying that it isn't wrong, or even some that are saying that it should happen.
    How can any person say that cheating is right?
    How can you sit down and say that sure, if the opportunity presents itself, go ahead and cheat that's cool. Nothing wrong with that.

    The number of people in this thread saying essentially that, cheating is ok, taking advantage of good will is ok and being dishonest is ok is scary.

    To be clear, I'm not saying that it's "ok" or "good" to watch your opponent's stream. It's poor sportsmanship and I wouldn't do it. But it doesn't break a rule, so it's not cheating. (Note that hacking your computer to look at your hand *would* break a rule).

    There's a difference between poor sportsmanship and cheating. There are a lot of choices players can make in almost any game that are poor sportsmanship, but still legal within the rules and not cheating and not punishable. There are a lot of things that have been legal in Hex that I don't do because I consider them poor sportsmanship -- for example, I didn't play Titania's Majesty decks before the ban, because I thought TM was unbalanced, unfair, and unsporting.

    But that was my choice and I didn't think people who played TM were cheats, they just had a different idea than I did of what fair play meant. And that's how I see this. Unsportsmanlike, not something I would do personally, but not against the rules, either.
    Last edited by Hieronymous; 11-16-2015 at 12:44 PM.
    -------
    "Surprise"

  7. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by infam0usne0 View Post
    Going to be frank, i don't care when people stream snipe me really, i accept that it's something that happens because of what i do.
    I understand that not using measures against it allows it to happen.
    I have been streaming for years and i notice when it happens, but i barely talk about the subject, beyond that.
    It's a part of the routine for me, i sacrifice my own wins and value in order to provide what i provide for the community.

    The problem i have, and the only reason i posted is the sheer amount of people saying that it isn't wrong, or even some that are saying that it should happen.
    How can any person say that cheating is right?
    How can you sit down and say that sure, if the opportunity presents itself, go ahead and cheat that's cool. Nothing wrong with that.
    So answer me this then. No one has every typed or given any reference to you while you stream a match?

    If the answer to that is yes, then you cheat. So how can you come back and be disgusted that people think cheating is okay, when you yourself partake in it?

  8. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by swigmonkey View Post
    So answer me this then. No one has every typed or given any reference to you while you stream a match?

    If the answer to that is yes, then you cheat. So how can you come back and be disgusted that people think cheating is okay, when you yourself partake in it?
    i do not partake in it, all chat is on at least a 30 second delay. nearly every play i make has been made by the time i read anything anyone has to say about it in chat.
    I do not read chat while i am the turn player making the play, i read and respond to chat after my second main phase and before my opponents main phase one when there are few plays to be made. I display chat on my screen at all times to make this apparent and obvious.

    Very occasionally this will overlap, or an accident will happen, but i do not cheat, i do not try to cheat, and i would never go out of my way to do so.

  9. #199
    For those trying to argue against the cheating factor. A lot of you have said it wasn't morally right but its not defined by the rules let's take a look at two definitions of what it means to cheat.

    1 : act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination
    2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice

    Both of those can clearly be seen in what happened. External sources were used to gain an advantage. While people will argue if it was against the rules or not don't fool yourselves by saying it wasn't cheating. External means were clearly used to see an opponents hand.

  10. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Xzaron View Post
    External sources were used to gain an advantage..
    Unfortunately, I think that argument is a washout because it applies equally to the streamer (at least potentially, even if in fact in this instance Neo didn't gain any advantage from viewer comments). If the problem is use of third party apps, they're both doing it.
    -------
    "Surprise"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •