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Thread: INC Night of Bells

  1. #21
    Well, the presents from my Night of Bells gave the AI an Ingenuity Engine and a Dwarven Turbine, which then proceeded to spit out Droo's Walker and two Tectonic Megahulks. Going great so far!

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by MattyTheSquid View Post
    As some of you may have noticed, Night of Bells went through a bit of a transformation since we last previewed it, and you may be wondering why we saw fit to go with this change. Well, the answer is pretty simple, really: the old Night of Bells was broken.

    Now, when I say "broken," I don't mean it in the way that it’s typically defined in TCG parlance, i.e., “too powerful.” I also don’t mean it in the more literal “not working” sense. What I mean is that Night of Bells had a role to play, and unfortunately, the older version was not fulfilling that role the way we would have liked.

    When we make cards for special events like Night of Bells, our goal is to make something fun that captures the feel of the event. Our aim is more towards novelty and entertainment than power. What we discovered, though, is that some of the best ways to build a Night of Bells deck led to games that were not fun to play. Take, for example, the simplest execution of the problem:

    Decklist
    56 Resources
    4 Night of Bells

    Now imagine that you redraw every hand that does not contain a Night of Bells, going down to a single card if necessary. That puts you somewhere in the ballpark of 85% to start the game with the card. You open with Night of Bells. On your opponent’s turn, they reveal a card and you put it into play after they’ve gained some health. On your next turn, there are two Night of Bells in play. You reveal your last two and put one into play and your opponent puts the other into play. At that point, your opponent will stop getting “gifts” from you and you’ll be taking two cards from them a turn.

    Now, of course, you can also pepper in actions to the above recipe, and the plan still works fine. The problem, though, is that rather than promoting a game full of fun exchanges of wackiness, Night of Bells essentially became a deckbuilding exercise, asking the player “what’s the best deck you can make that contains no artifacts, constants, or troops?”

    We know many of you were likely looking forward to the old design, and imagining all the wacky games it could lead to. We had high hopes for the card as well, but it had become clear that what was intended to be a recipe for fun and eventful games had instead become an unfun mess. Night of Bells may be a holiday that traditionally involves “questionable gifts” from ol’ Pappy Jasper, but this one had gone a little too far. We do believe, though, that the new Night of Bells card delivers on the promise of chaotic, fun games that the original Night of Bells represented in spirit.

    We hope you enjoy this new incarnation of the card, and may your games with it be as unpredictable and merry as Pappy Jasper himself.
    I would agree with you if that was a PVP card but consider that is a PVE card, even if is broken for one month, only the AI will suffer.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinjica View Post
    I would agree with you if that was a PVP card but consider that is a PVE card, even if is broken for one month, only the AI will suffer.
    You are forgetting about the PvEvP mode, which will potentially have tournaments and all sorts of things. And considering multiplayer FFA is going to be one of the most fun random formats, troll decks like that aren't healthy for the game.
    Xenavire, proud guild leader for The Lions Share.
    http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/n...erlinsmall.png

  4. #24
    High Tomb Lord
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    thanks for the nice present
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Timlagor View Post
    How are you getting the second NoB here?
    AFAICS the NoBs only give the rest of them to your opponent while you are getting cards from them.
    + you play one
    - get opp card
    + opp gets one
    - get 2xopp card
    + opp gets remaining 2 (doesn't matter who controls the NoB).

    I think you end up with 1 while your opp gets the other 3 then you are drawing 4 of their cards every turn along with your shards.
    So even worse than you said but not the way you said it... unless I'm misreading something.
    This also assumes only 2 champs in the match of course.
    Whoops, my apologies, I do seem to have gotten mixed up in my train of thought here. Yes, all the Nights after the first should be going to the opponent, but with it being a symmetrical effect, the end result is pretty much the same, just as you said. Thanks for noting the discrepancy; I'll be sure to edit the original explanation.

  6. #26
    2nd NoB is possible if Periwinkle is on board when you cast NoB.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by wolzarg View Post
    So any plans for a 0 cost equipment or is that out the window? Because while i agree and had exactly those unfun plans for breaking the previous card paying 6 even in a game for fun seems steep and i would rather pay 0 and let the fun start faster.
    You are thinking in PvP terms. In PvE, encounters can be crazy. In PvP 6 cost is a lot because you have to play fast. We've had examples of PvE encounters (that very likely have changed) where you can only do 1 damage to the boss per hit and it has 100 health.

    Basically, we have no idea what the actual pacing of PvE encounters will be with all the possible crazy rules.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Svenn View Post
    You are thinking in PvP terms. In PvE, encounters can be crazy. In PvP 6 cost is a lot because you have to play fast. We've had examples of PvE encounters (that very likely have changed) where you can only do 1 damage to the boss per hit and it has 100 health.

    Basically, we have no idea what the actual pacing of PvE encounters will be with all the possible crazy rules.
    Well the point is the card is equal for both sides so there really is no reason for it to cost 6. Having to give up an equipment slot to make it free is actually a big deal in pve even if it was slower and 6 cost for something completely random is silly.
    Member of The Unnamed Council - the Hex TCG PvE Guild
    Twice as nice as i seem and ten times as friendly.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by wolzarg View Post
    Well the point is the card is equal for both sides so there really is no reason for it to cost 6. Having to give up an equipment slot to make it free is actually a big deal in pve even if it was slower and 6 cost for something completely random is silly.
    Making free artifacts from T1 is still a powerful effect. It synergises with Construct Foreman, War Machinist, Flak Scrapper etc, so you could absolutely build around a free artifact per turn. I mean, if you think purely about the effect and no synergy, then sure, its awful, but making artifacts that can be used for synergy, and potentially still transformed, can add up to quite an advantage.

    I mean, its unlikely to actually matter unless something truly broken comes along, but if something broken does emerge, it could be pretty nasty.
    Xenavire, proud guild leader for The Lions Share.
    http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/n...erlinsmall.png

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by wolzarg View Post
    Well the point is the card is equal for both sides so there really is no reason for it to cost 6. Having to give up an equipment slot to make it free is actually a big deal in pve even if it was slower and 6 cost for something completely random is silly.
    Also consider that if something is equally good for all players, that means it's much more powerful on the players' side in raids and any other lopsided mode.
    Keep Name: Shalott
    Proud member of Clan Blackblade.

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