Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Timing question

  1. #1

    Timing question

    I've noticed that if I have both a Blood Bearer (gain a life when one of my creatures dies) and a Paladin of the Necropolis (when you gain life opponent loses a life) in play, and they die simultaneously (like Extinction), I get the Blood Bearer effect for all my creatures that died, but none of the Paladin effect. Since the Blood Bearer is triggering despite being on its way to the Crypt, it seems the Paladin should trigger as well.

    Is the Paladin not triggering deliberate, and if so, why?

  2. #2
    I don't know all of the details of the mechanics or how it's intended to work, but thinking about it, it kind of makes sense.

    1. Extinction is played
    2. Blood Bearer and Paladin die
    3. Blood Bearer trigger activates as it is dying to gain a health
    4. Health is gained, but the Paladin is already dead, so its trigger does not activate.

    Or more simply, the Paladin trigger isn't activated by the Paladin dying, it's triggered by the Blood Bearer's trigger, so therefore must come later.

  3. #3
    The answer is that Paladin is no longer in play by the time you are gaining life. Even though the triggers are invisible, they all resolve immediately *after* the events that triggered them.

    Noragar's sequence is correct. Blood Bearer is in play to see his trigger event (creatures dying) but Paladin is not in play to see his trigger event (gaining life, which is a result of Blood Bearer's triggers.)
    In-game: Obsidian || Collector backer || Starting a guild for Newbies -- "The Cerulea Acadamy"
    Quote Originally Posted by Aradon View Post
    Cory is a man of unrelenting promises and optimism!

  4. #4
    Some pretty unintuitive things going on here. First extinction is destroying both cards at the exact same time. Second, the on-death trigger happens at start of death but effects of this aren't felt until after death. So BB ability is in-play at the start of his and PN deaths. BB's ability is activated. BB and PN go to the crypt and their abilities leave play. BB ability is resolved. PN ability isn't in-play anymore so it won't trigger on the life-gain event. Adding to confusion on-play event (like scrivener) works in the opposite way and frost wizard's trigger goes into effect immediately prevents on-death trigger.
    Last edited by Tazelbain; 01-14-2016 at 03:26 PM.

  5. #5
    Yeah Frost Wizard is another weird one... If I remember correctly my opponent played Extinction and I had a Frost Wizard in play the Extinction ended up in the void but his troops that had been on the board weren't.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Incindium View Post
    Yeah Frost Wizard is another weird one... If I remember correctly my opponent played Extinction and I had a Frost Wizard in play the Extinction ended up in the void but his troops that had been on the board weren't.
    Just chiming in to say that this interaction between Frost Wizard and Extinction is a bug. Your opponent's troops are supposed to go to the void in this scenario. We already know it's not behaving as intended.

    As for the original question, noragar and Aradon's answers are accurate.

  7. #7
    That clears things up, sort of. I'm used to the MtG model of "on its way to the graveyard (or crypt)" where things exist in a sort of limbo between life and death and all triggers happen simultaneously. But you got me thinking and I think the previous explanations are slightly off.

    For instance, if the Blood Bearer dies, he is not alive when his event triggers (he has to be on his way to the crypt in order to trigger). Simply having a game effect happen that would kill him is not sufficient since he could be bounced or pumped in response, he has to actually be irrevocably on his way to the crypt. So he is not actually "in play" when his event goes off.

    I think that Blood Bearer gets around this by saying "when Blood Bearer or another creature", so he dodges that timing issue through semantics, in effect pre-loading his own death into the process. While the Paladin would not get life for himself until he was already dead, and thus not be in play either and his effect would not trigger.

  8. #8
    I think you're slightly confused, BTRC. This is a case where the game functions identically to MtG, just the triggers will actually go on the stack and priority is given for each one.

    Player A has Blood Bearer and Paladin of Necropolis out.
    Player B casts extinction, and both go to the graveyard.
    Player A has two Blood Bearer triggers, because blood bearer and another creature go to the graveyard.
    Player A resolves each trigger, gaining two life.
    Paladin of the Necropolis is already in the graveyard, so it doesn't register that Player A gained life, therefore no trigger.


    Basically, when creatures go to the graveyard at the same time (or enter play at the same time) they see each other creature die (or enter). This is because the Blood Bearer is on the battlefield. Then, simultaneously, all the creatures go to the graveyard. It's in play when that action occurs, so its ability is in effect still.
    In-game: Obsidian || Collector backer || Starting a guild for Newbies -- "The Cerulea Acadamy"
    Quote Originally Posted by Aradon View Post
    Cory is a man of unrelenting promises and optimism!

  9. #9
    So, to sum it up:

    1) All 'on death' triggers happen at the same time and apply to all troops even if some of the 'on death' triggers belong to troops that are dying.

    2) Indirect triggers (those that are not directly 'on death', such as Paladin of Necropolis 'on lifegain' trigger) trigger after troops die. Therefore the troop must survive whatever is causing the deaths for its ability to trigger.

    3) Triggers that cause troops not to go to crypt happen before 'on death' triggers (such as Frost Wizard's trigger).
    Last edited by LNQ; 01-17-2016 at 01:10 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •