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Thread: Mulligans decide too many games (imo) Let's discuss ways to negate the disadvantage.

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by poizonous View Post
    Changing the mulligan system potentially unbalances cards which were designed with the current mulligan system in mind. A mulligan is a Strategic choice, sometimes it is necessary yes but there shouldnt be a reward given to people who mulligan . A mulligan should put you at a disadvantage. Giving someone a benefit to doing it actually gives the mulliganning player an advantage if he is going to get something in return for doing so. Combo decks would benefit the most and that is something the meta does not want.

    I dont think people would purposefuly mulligan with the proposed idea. I realy dont. Mulligans are still a disadvantage with the proposed system. To the point that cards are balanced around people having to potentialy mulligan. I dont get that point.

  2. #22
    Nowadays, many games try several different tricks to minimize the effect, but I think where you are essentially leading to is infamous "resource screw" issue. Many will say it won't ever change but we know Magic changed its rule after so many years. HEX still technically in beta, I think it's all possible. So here are some of tricks I've seen.

    1. Free resource card/artifact for player going second.

    That player get a free resource card or constant like card that he can use once to give him a temporary resource boost.

    I think this is easy to implement even now. Obviously, main advantage here is second player won't be so penalized in going second and get behind the resource curve.

    2. Specific card effect that helps actually going second.

    HEX already has this, but only one card?



    Basically if you have less troop than opponent etc., which is likely to happen by going second, your troop get some additional advantage.

    3. Anytime reshuffle

    First I came across this system on Carte CCG, and now Spellweaver but I think both games had the best resource system I've ever seen. This is part of the advantage in their game. Basically, you can sort of reshuffle your card anytime. In Spellweaver, you can return one of your card and look top 3 cards and if it contains resource card, you can take it i.e. you have just exchanged it. The penalty you pay here is if the top 3 does not contain resource, you lose the card reshuffled.

    Obviously, these does not sound directly fixing Mulligan issue but these are fixing the reason why one needs to consider Mulligan.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Metronomy View Post
    I dont think people would purposefuly mulligan with the proposed idea. I realy dont. Mulligans are still a disadvantage with the proposed system. To the point that cards are balanced around people having to potentialy mulligan. I dont get that point.
    Mulligan with the chance of getting 2 free chump blockers makes average hands very mulligan friendly. Any change to the mulligan system will just lead to more mulligans due to them being more friendly and less dangerous

  4. #24
    Show me 2 seven-card hands. Let me pick between them. No mulligans. Boom. Solved.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Deckofmanythings View Post
    Show me 2 seven-card hands. Let me pick between them. No mulligans. Boom. Solved.
    I really like something with this kind of variant, especially something that takes advantage of the digital space.

    Maybe even adding you can mull both hands shown above and get 1 hand of 5 and go from there.

  6. #26
    People getting fixated on the example I gave, please realise it's just an example, to get ideas going... a starting point... if two 1/1's is too good (very unlikely) it could always be a 2/2 or just one 1/1 and so on... or something else entirely.

  7. #27
    Does anyone know if any research has been done now that mtg has changed to the scry mulligan rule?

    Does it make much difference or is it mostly to make people feel they are having some control? If I mull to 5 and then scry and put the card on the bottom (putting it on top gives the same outcome as if you didn't scry) how much more am I winning than before? Obviously its more than 0% of games, but is it actually a worthwhile change?

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Deckofmanythings View Post
    Show me 2 seven-card hands. Let me pick between them. No mulligans. Boom. Solved.
    My initial reaction to this was that, as with many mulligan alternatives, it gives aggro and combo decks too much of an advantage. However, upon further examination I think this is my favourite suggestion so far.

    Pros:
    - Assuming both hands are taken from the top 14 cards of the deck, if your first hand is resource heavy or light, the second hand will be that much more likely to have what you need. There's still a chance that you'll get a clump of resources in one hand and a clump of spells in the second, but if we assume a 70% chance of a playable hand, we now go to a 91% chance with this method.
    - No player will start at a card number disadvantage. They may have a card quality or playability disadvantage but assuming they can draw into what they need, they'll be much better off than if they had fewer cards.
    - It's a much simpler and faster system. One decision and off you go.
    - It doesn't seem to favour one deck type over another. Each player gets to choose the best representation of what their deck can do and more players will be able to an their deck as it was intended to play, which is exactly what we want!

    Cons
    - It's still possible to have to take a hand that won't allow you to play.
    - Still more confusing to new players than just getting a hand and starting the game.

    I'd like to try this system to see how it works. I think it has potential.

    A similar option also comes to mind:

    Look at the top 14 cards of your deck and choose any 7 consecutive cards as your starting hand and put the rest back into your deck. Thus would prevent players from cherry picking the best cards but would (I think) give an even higher playable hand percentage than even the above suggestion. I'm sure someone more math-inclined could run the numbers to see if that hypothesis was valid.
    Last edited by AswanJaguar; 01-17-2016 at 08:10 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Deckofmanythings View Post
    Show me 2 seven-card hands. Let me pick between them. No mulligans. Boom. Solved.
    I've never seen an idea I liked about this reoccurring suggestion/topic until now. Nice one.

  10. #30
    Both Havoc and Deck, T1 players each, have some good ideas and it is interesting this has come up after the final IQ.

    My thoughts: not until AFTER the $100k tourney.

    Many people, multiple times, suggested changes to mulligans, resource screw, etc and Every time they were mocked, ridiculed, and shot down.
    SO there must not be a problem, and there will therefore be no "unfun" moments when the finales are streamed/viewed.
    Losses due to resource issues are part of the intended HEX experience.
    To make any changes to it before the finales would invalidate all tournaments and IQs that have gotten us to this point.

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