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Thread: 'By logging in, I agree to the T&C'

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  1. #1
    Gigantisaur
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    'By logging in, I agree to the T&C'

    This is an ingeniously devilish way to forgo the responsibility of telling users when the terms of service have changed.

    If users only have to agree once to the T&C upon their first login, then the burden falls to Hex to notify users when they change - because the new T&C are not the ones we already agreed to, and can't be enforced based on our old approval. We have to re-agree to the new terms.

    But if we have to agree every single time we access the game, T&C can be changed without notice because it shifts the burden to the user. There's no need for Hex to notify users 'Your prior acceptance is no longer valid because the T&C have changed' when your prior acceptance doesn't carry over anyways.

    The new T&C checkbox is #1) Annoying and #2) Potentially malevolent.

    Was this by design? Does Hex still plan on informing people about ToS changes?

    If you know me (and I assume most people don't, but if you do...), you know I'm generally supportive and apologetic for most Hex decisions. This one just strikes me as particularly odd because it was obviously an intentional UI change, and it seems to me the only possible intents are to either make the login experience less enjoyable or to enable sneaking in ToS changes without the typical public discussion (aka arguing) that happens on the forums. As much as I think the ToS discussions in the forums are overblown and melodramatic, its better than no discussion at all.

  2. #2
    If I understood correctly, this is more related to German laws than anything. It has to do with Gameforge being the NA publisher now.

  3. #3
    Well there were issues with the previous 'acceptance' system because the acceptance was only linked to the installation, not any particular account. I think that's why it changed.

    I agree with it being annoying... 'remember me' should also keep the terms checkbox checked.
    twitch.tv/alucard2004 - my favorite hex streamer. Click for The Official Bone Forum

  4. #4
    Here's a good in-between if possible... once checked it stays checked, UNTIL it changes. Then it unchecks itself so you know there were changes.

  5. #5
    Just to be clear, there is no malicious intent here. It could be a QoL changed to have it always checked, but having you manually check it ensures that you understand and agree to the Terms of Service. Previously, there are no requirements to make users aware of/if when they may change, that is entirely your responsibility.
    Last edited by Phenteo; 01-28-2016 at 09:16 AM.
    -Phenteo, Former Community Manager and Egg Giver
    Twitter: @CM_Phenteo | @HEXTCG


    "It's polite to say thank you when someone gives you a gift, human." -Phenteo

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Phenteo View Post
    Just to be clear, there is no malicious intent here. It could be a QoL changed to have it always checked, but having you manually check it ensures that you understand and agree to the Terms of Service. Previously, there are no requirements to make users aware of/if when they may change, that is entire up to your responsibility.
    This is pretty twisted logic in my opinion. So what you're saying is that before each time we log into the game we should review the Terms and Conditions document and compare it to a previous TandC to ensure that there were no changes. No one is going to do that. Saying that "its for our own protection" and making it seem like Hex is doing us a favor by having us check TandC every time is disingenuous.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by GobBluth View Post
    This is pretty twisted logic in my opinion. So what you're saying is that before each time we log into the game we should review the Terms and Conditions document and compare it to a previous TandC to ensure that there were no changes. No one is going to do that. Saying that "its for our own protection" and making it seem like Hex is doing us a favor by having us check TandC every time is disingenuous.
    That is how most companies work when it comes to terms & conditions. You agree that the company is not required to inform you when they update. Though, we at HEX have always informed you when we've updated our ToS. We're not hiding or being disingenuous. I am being honest when I say it is your responsibility as a consumer to know what you're agreeing to.
    -Phenteo, Former Community Manager and Egg Giver
    Twitter: @CM_Phenteo | @HEXTCG


    "It's polite to say thank you when someone gives you a gift, human." -Phenteo

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Phenteo View Post
    That is how most companies work when it comes to terms & conditions. You agree that the company is not required to inform you when they update. Though, we at HEX have always informed you when we've updated our ToS. We're not hiding or being disingenuous. I am being honest when I say it is your responsibility as a consumer to know what you're agreeing to.
    This is not how most companies work. Other games and programs when terms change a new ToS pops up you need to agree to. With my credit cards, insurance, and bank accounts when the terms change I get a letter explaining it.

    I do not know if stealth changes to a ToS is strictly illegal but it is definitely shady.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by malloc31 View Post
    This is not how most companies work. Other games and programs when terms change a new ToS pops up you need to agree to. With my credit cards, insurance, and bank accounts when the terms change I get a letter explaining it.

    I do not know if stealth changes to a ToS is strictly illegal but it is definitely shady.
    I think you're trying to be a contrarian at this point. Many terms and conditions state the company doesn't have to make the user aware of when they change. However, we and many other companies do try to make you aware of when they change.
    -Phenteo, Former Community Manager and Egg Giver
    Twitter: @CM_Phenteo | @HEXTCG


    "It's polite to say thank you when someone gives you a gift, human." -Phenteo

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by malloc31 View Post
    This is not how most companies work. Other games and programs when terms change a new ToS pops up you need to agree to. With my credit cards, insurance, and bank accounts when the terms change I get a letter explaining it.

    I do not know if stealth changes to a ToS is strictly illegal but it is definitely shady.
    This. This new change is absolutely NOT a standard practice Phenteo. At least not in Canada or the US, both of which I have lived several years in.

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