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Thread: 'By logging in, I agree to the T&C'

  1. #1
    Gigantisaur
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    'By logging in, I agree to the T&C'

    This is an ingeniously devilish way to forgo the responsibility of telling users when the terms of service have changed.

    If users only have to agree once to the T&C upon their first login, then the burden falls to Hex to notify users when they change - because the new T&C are not the ones we already agreed to, and can't be enforced based on our old approval. We have to re-agree to the new terms.

    But if we have to agree every single time we access the game, T&C can be changed without notice because it shifts the burden to the user. There's no need for Hex to notify users 'Your prior acceptance is no longer valid because the T&C have changed' when your prior acceptance doesn't carry over anyways.

    The new T&C checkbox is #1) Annoying and #2) Potentially malevolent.

    Was this by design? Does Hex still plan on informing people about ToS changes?

    If you know me (and I assume most people don't, but if you do...), you know I'm generally supportive and apologetic for most Hex decisions. This one just strikes me as particularly odd because it was obviously an intentional UI change, and it seems to me the only possible intents are to either make the login experience less enjoyable or to enable sneaking in ToS changes without the typical public discussion (aka arguing) that happens on the forums. As much as I think the ToS discussions in the forums are overblown and melodramatic, its better than no discussion at all.

  2. #2
    If I understood correctly, this is more related to German laws than anything. It has to do with Gameforge being the NA publisher now.

  3. #3
    Well there were issues with the previous 'acceptance' system because the acceptance was only linked to the installation, not any particular account. I think that's why it changed.

    I agree with it being annoying... 'remember me' should also keep the terms checkbox checked.
    twitch.tv/alucard2004 - my favorite hex streamer. Click for The Official Bone Forum

  4. #4
    Here's a good in-between if possible... once checked it stays checked, UNTIL it changes. Then it unchecks itself so you know there were changes.

  5. #5
    Just to be clear, there is no malicious intent here. It could be a QoL changed to have it always checked, but having you manually check it ensures that you understand and agree to the Terms of Service. Previously, there are no requirements to make users aware of/if when they may change, that is entirely your responsibility.
    Last edited by Phenteo; 01-28-2016 at 09:16 AM.
    -Phenteo, Former Community Manager and Egg Giver
    Twitter: @CM_Phenteo | @HEXTCG


    "It's polite to say thank you when someone gives you a gift, human." -Phenteo

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Phenteo View Post
    Just to be clear, there is no malicious intent here. It could be a QoL changed to have it always checked, but having you manually check it ensures that you understand and agree to the Terms of Service. Previously, there are no requirements to make users aware of/if when they may change, that is entire up to your responsibility.
    This is pretty twisted logic in my opinion. So what you're saying is that before each time we log into the game we should review the Terms and Conditions document and compare it to a previous TandC to ensure that there were no changes. No one is going to do that. Saying that "its for our own protection" and making it seem like Hex is doing us a favor by having us check TandC every time is disingenuous.

  7. #7
    I think this should simply stay checked until a new T&C is introduced or a different account tries to log in - that way we aren't forced to tick it constantly, while also having a handy reminder to review the T&C when it changes.

    Really, the repeated clicking is not doing good things for my mood, when faced with occasional lock ups due to the servers.
    Xenavire, proud guild leader for The Lions Share.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Phenteo View Post
    Just to be clear, there is no malicious intent here. It could be a QoL changed to have it always checked, but having you manually check it ensures that you understand and agree to the Terms of Service. Previously, there are no requirements to make users aware of/if when they may change, that is entire up to your responsibility.
    Let's be honest. It really just ensures we checked the "check me or you can't log in" box.

    It's less likely that a user actually reads the whole T&C every time they log in than it was that they read it every time they are prompted that it's changed, and even the later is somewhat optimistic.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by GobBluth View Post
    This is pretty twisted logic in my opinion. So what you're saying is that before each time we log into the game we should review the Terms and Conditions document and compare it to a previous TandC to ensure that there were no changes. No one is going to do that. Saying that "its for our own protection" and making it seem like Hex is doing us a favor by having us check TandC every time is disingenuous.
    That is how most companies work when it comes to terms & conditions. You agree that the company is not required to inform you when they update. Though, we at HEX have always informed you when we've updated our ToS. We're not hiding or being disingenuous. I am being honest when I say it is your responsibility as a consumer to know what you're agreeing to.
    -Phenteo, Former Community Manager and Egg Giver
    Twitter: @CM_Phenteo | @HEXTCG


    "It's polite to say thank you when someone gives you a gift, human." -Phenteo

  10. #10
    Yeah, the fact that changes to the ToS aren't communicated to me via having a new one pop up is concerning to me, too. That's what I've come to expect from Hex & from other online games. It may not be a requirement, but it's an accepted practice. I also do understand that it's not malicious, but I know that I'm certainly not going to read the ToS every time I log in.

    Even if you included a version number next to the link or something so that I can just remember that I've approved ToS version 1.0 and if I see it changed to 1.1 I probably ought to read it (or more likely come to the forums and read a post someone has made outlining the changes) that would be a big improvement. Right now I don't know that it's changed, and so the only way to track changes is to read it every time I log in, which is something that I realistically won't do, and most people won't do. Of course if you do track the version of the ToS, then you can also track whether that ToS has been approved on the computer before and default in the checkbox. (Other accounts can still opt out when they log in on that computer since there's a checkbox now, but at least most people who only log in on one account on a machine would only have to accept the ToS once per version)

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